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#2462501 Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)

Posted by dobbles on 09 December 2013 - 12:50 PM




The Eriksson hit is way early in the game 19:39 to be exact.  First shift of the game! 


No time stamp, but later in the period Thorton tries to get Orpik to fight.  Orpik declines. 

This is probably where Thorton should have just left it alone, but he's stewing not calming down.


Neal's knee happens at 8:59.  Which stirs the pot some more.  Thorton then sees Campbell and Orpik jawing at each other. He decides he needs to help out his teammates and his punches follow.  


Don't know what he was thinking when he decided to knock Orpik down to the ice and follow up with some gloved punches.

He was too emotional, pissed off, and lost his cool... because he'd been thinking about it since the first shift of the game.

It doesn't justify his actions in anyway.  It just makes his behavior all the more ridiculous.

Furthermore, I don't buy his tearful "not my intention" apology.  It was his intention to punch Orpik. 

Maybe he didn't want him to be carted off on a stretcher, but he wanted to punish him with his fists.


DIsgusting.  All around.


mccarty wanted to punish lemieux with his fists, and is revered here for it. can't have it both ways... sure the slew foot was pretty douchey, but many felt mccarty 'jumped' lemiuex similar to this altercation....


the only difference is the stretcher. had it not been brought out, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation...

#2462476 Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)

Posted by dobbles on 09 December 2013 - 10:32 AM

i wish thornton wouldn't have did what he did so the focal point in the media would have been how big a ******-canoe neal is. i wish he would have ended up with the longer suspension out of all of this. what he did was totally cowardly.


i think how it played out is really unfortunate. orpik goes off on a stretcher from a couple gloved punches so it makes thornton out to be the worst dude in the history of the world, but since marchand is disliked by most and was able to get off the ice, his injury was no big deal.


i wish the league punished more for intent an not on theatrics. thornton shouldnt have slew footed and he shouldnt have punched a guy thats down. but at the end of the day he was trying to fight a guy that had made a borderline dirty hit. i can understand someone getting caught up in the passion of the game and making the mistake he did. whereas neal's actions just make me not want to be a hockey fan when people can get away with dirty plays like that. honestly that is worse thaneven lemiuex on draper IMO.

#2462467 Do Quincey and Smith have a future in Detroit?

Posted by dobbles on 09 December 2013 - 09:42 AM

I always think it's funny that everyone complains about how long the Wings leave kids in the AHL to develop but then when they bring one up everyone is mad that they take a while to adjust.
Never happy around here


i dont understand your point...


to me, when the wings bury someone in the ahl for 3 years, once they do get the call, they should be ready. thats the entire point of having them down there. if someone is 19 and coming straight out of the chl, i understand being patient. but when our rookies are 24 and been playing north american pro hockey for over 200 games, then expectations are high that they can step into limited roles pretty quickly.


i just dont see how you can be baffled by 2 things that are basically cause and effect.

#2461471 Howard = Average

Posted by dobbles on 06 December 2013 - 02:11 PM

My opinion is that Howard is a bad sport. I haven't seen many goalies throw fits or break their stick because they miss the puck. I think he's

too immature to play with the big boys.

When he missed 3 quick goals last year, he claimed to have lost his vision.....kids stuff


you haven't seen much hockey then... players break their sticks all the time in frustration


besides, i appreciate a player that gets emotional and pissed off when things aren't going well. thats the kind of player we need more of.

#2460568 Weiss

Posted by dobbles on 04 December 2013 - 12:00 AM

not sure if its the site you are referring to, but according to behindthenet.ca, his most common linemates are cleary and franzen. 


i agree with you harold, people act as if he was on the 4th line when the season started. he earned these lousey minutes. and despite his recent demotion, he is still middle of the pack for forwards time on ice for ES and PP. 

#2460301 Retaliation

Posted by dobbles on 03 December 2013 - 09:36 AM

As a self proclaimed 'knuckle dragger' - I always liked the idea of beating your opponent on the scoreboard as well as beating them up.


It's why I'd much rather have a team that resembles what we had in the 90's than what we have today.


i certainly have no problem with that, i just think that in todays salary cap environment, combined with the dwindling number of players available that can be tough and skate a regular shift, that its become pretty tough to put together a winning team that is also tough. boston certainly is a good example. but they have that as their base. i think it would be hard to shift midstream for the wings because that is not the type of team they have built.

#2460182 Paterson and Mantha on Team Canada roster for WJC

Posted by dobbles on 02 December 2013 - 04:26 PM

I saw Hudon on the roster and thought our 5th round pick from 2011 had really blossomed! Then I realized I had forgotten our guy was named Phillipe!


I had heard some say that Paterson was really playing the best going into last year but that Subban got the minutes because of name recognition.

#2460067 Retaliation

Posted by dobbles on 02 December 2013 - 01:12 AM

why are we even still talking about this? the cowen hit was reckless but not really dirty. its not like the wings have been victims of continuous dirty plays or anything. 


the part that was more disconcerting about that game was that ottawa did play us physical the entire game, specifically neil. however, tonight the wings showed that their skill could neutralize the physicality. when you combine that with how well we have played against boston so far, i really don't think the big bad east will be as tough as many make it out to be. 


the datsyuk injury is a freak occurrence. 9 out of 10 times a hit of that magnitude results in no injury. the over reaction here has made me sad. i guess there really are some people that think slapshot is an accurate representation of 21st century hockey... 

#2457504 The Dan Cleary Hate Zone

Posted by dobbles on 24 November 2013 - 12:10 AM

I don't hate Cleary.  I do hate ungrateful, spiteful, keyboard warriors who are unable to appreciate the fact that the reason Cleary is so ineffective is because he has given quite literally everything his body has for this team.


I refuse to hate a player who has been a part of so many great moments for this team.  I refuse to hate a player who continued to play in the 2009 playoffs - all the way to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals - with a double groin tear so bad he couldn't actually walk up a flight of stairs.  I refuse to hate the player who laid out Phaneuf, fought Pronger, scored the winner in game 7 against the ducks.


I refuse to hate a player who took a slapshot to face and was eating through a straw for a month, who lost 20lbs of muscle that had taken a lifetime to build, and when he came back went straight to the front of the net again.


So all you internet tough guys who don't have a fraction of the heart, courage and toughness that Dan Cleary has displayed in the Red + White, I suggest you all STFU and show a bit of class, dignity and gratitude.


wow, this has to be a nomination for worst post of the year. these guys get paid millions of dollars to play a game that many of us play for fun and for free. (heck with the cost of ice time, we mostly pay to play!) so excuse me if i dont get all humbled by someone playing injured. the way your post is written you would think they just freed kidnapped children or ended slavery or something. 


additionally, just about everyone here has acknowledged they dont 'hate' dan cleary, they are just frustrated with his role on the team. many of us, myself included, actually acknowledge our problem isn't even really with cleary. its with the coach and gm for putting him out there when he shouldnt be. 


the only person in this thread being an internet tough guy is you by implying that no one is entitled to dislike cleary because he has some sort of god-like status in your mind. 


p.s. if this was some sort of sarcasm, i apologize... but it seems serious. 

#2456787 The Dan Cleary Hate Zone

Posted by dobbles on 22 November 2013 - 06:09 PM

this has been touched on before.... but the unfortunate side effect of this situation is that a lot of hate for hollan and babcock gets displaced onto cleary. i don't blame clear for wanting to come back to detroit. nor do i blame him for skating on whatever line he is told to be on.


what angers me is that our gm would sign cleary knowing the roster problems it would create. the sad thing is that cleary isn't the worst contract up there as sammy is millions times worse.


the issue is exacerbated by babcock. instead of playing cleary like the 4th liner he is getting paid to be, he gets put out there in quality minutes with top tier linemates.


so i blame our gm for a bad signing and i blame our coach for misusing players. unfortunately, the player is the one that takes the blame publicly.

#2456613 Quincey

Posted by dobbles on 22 November 2013 - 10:56 AM

Every GM makes some bad moves, but defining Holland's abilities and track record on the basis of his 2012 signings alone pretty much means not seeing the forest for the trees.


There certainly is a lot of truth to that, but would you say over the last 5 years Holland has made more good moves than bad? When was the last time we got a steal of a trade? When was the last time we improved our team for the long term with a FA signing? When I look at the trades the Wings have made over the past 5 years or so, I am pretty unimpressed personally. Sure there are some decent value trades by moving down spots in the draft for adding extra picks, but thats about it. Regarding FA signings, he has a couple big splashes like Hossa and Alfredsson, but both of those appear to be oen and done situations that didn't necessarily help the team in the long run. Even take a guy like Weiss. He was a quality signing at the time, but was merely replacing someone that had been lost in Filppula.


Bigger picture, I feel this team has been managed poorly recently. We have still had success, but mostly due to the fact that we had some generational talent on our roster. Much of which wasn't a direct result of Holland, so its kind of hard to keep giving him credit.





Regarding Quincey, I personally feel its silly to focus on the trade. At the time it was a solid move. We didn't know Quincey would regress with the Wings. I just don't feel tha the is part of our future and that if he is resigned, especially if its more than 1 year, he will be an achor on the blue line similar to how Cleary/Sammy currently are on the forwards. The Wings have a lot of potential in their young dmen. The only way to see if they are legit is to let them play. Having Quincey around will only hamper that. Especially when he is bringing so little to the table.


And for those that say it doesn't matter, Holland would never re-sign him, thats all I heard 4 months ago about the forwards and look where that is. Its been 2 or 3 years now where everyone says Tatar and Nyquist will definitely be on the roster. Yet here we are   over a quarter of the way through the season and Nyquist has 1 game and Tatar has 15. Yet Cleary has 22 and Sammy 15??? My point is, Quincey signing a multiyear deal is a very likely scenario given the wings past few seasons. And that makes me sick to my stomach.

#2455820 Nyquist Getting the call

Posted by dobbles on 20 November 2013 - 04:23 PM


He is right, though.  Kids are never supposed to be the centerpiece of a successful team.  You infuse the lineup with youth but never rely on them.  Here's where it gets interesting.  If that is Holland's philosophy, then it contradicts his "we have to roll with what we have" mantra of the past few years.  If you promote from within, you are relying on your youth.


The best strategy, which as always worked, is create a core of players in their prime, add some veteran presence and insert one or two kids to keep energy up and to gain experience.  


For all the bashing of Holland re-signing vets and Babcock's stupid lineups, we do ice DeKeyser, Smith, Lashoff, Andersson and Tatar.  I don't know how that stacks up league-wide, but that is a lot of kids.  It's just not a lot of GOOD kids.


you list 5 people, but tatar is regularly scratched and lashoff is the 7th defenseman. so that narrows it down to 3. and smith took like 5 years to even get here. if you look at that draft in 07 that smith and andersson come from, you will see that there are 45 players from that draft with more games played. so its not like these are players coming to the nhl before their peers or anything. same with tatar. 42 players from his draft with more nhl games played.


we did finally get forced to get younger on defense last year. but even then its not like we are rolling a bunch of 20 year olds out there. sure we are less old than teams of years past. but that doesn't really mean we are young either.

#2455817 Respect Babcock and Holland

Posted by dobbles on 20 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

i'm done respecting them until they earn it. especially holland.


every year we hear about how things are going to turn around. every year on here we talk about our great prospect depth an how all of these top tier free agents will be available. and then every year nothing happens...


we are not getting better. and it might even be a few years before we are because so many player have had their development nerfed. it does no good to have a prospect pool of nyquist, tatar, jurco, etc if none of them play.


for several years we heard that the team was saving cap space for deadline moves or for the future. yet here we are with no cap space and a totally mediocre team.


our superstars are gone or aging. unless we actually give youth a chance, then how will we see if we have that next generation of star in our organization?

#2451659 Tootoo Waived

Posted by dobbles on 07 November 2013 - 04:17 PM

Something important to keep in mind...and I'm not saying this fully justifies what Holland has done, just keep the following in mind.


This whole loyalty to a fault thing may have behind the scenes benefits.  The way we treat our players is well known around the league and may benefit us in the following ways:

- Cheaper contract extensions (Kronwall, Datsyuk, etc.)

- Hossa/Alfreddson signings...yes they reached out to us but did our reputation help us out here?

- DeKeyser - did our rep help us attract this guy who could've signed with any club

- Brunner - see above, yes we didn't keep him, but again we attracted a high value target.


If you are going to bash Holland for loyalty (and I do think he's taken it too far) at least give him some credit for the positives that may arise from it.


i think you are overvaluing hollands role in the points you mention above.


aside from using the cap circumvention tricks that many used for several years to keep cap hits down, there aren't really any red wings who have signed well below market value to stay. i do not believe that holland has helped keep costs down.


hossa and alfredsson came here to play with top quality players and in hossascase to win a cup. in 3 or 4 years when 13 and 40 have retired, who will wnat to come play here with the top talent we dont have? regardless, this point speaks to the talent we already have not hollands ability to attract free agents. both player fell into his lap, that doesnt exactly scream 'highly skilled gm' by getting them signed.


DD is another bad example because there was nothing holland could do to woo him. all teams were able to offer the same max entry contract. there was nothing creative or mind blowing that holland needed to do to make the deal happen. at the end of the day DD is from michigan and went to college in michigan, it once again is not a signing that should be a feather in a gms cap.


brunner i guess is a decent example of a nice signing. however, what is the point when they let him go a year later for nothing in return?



my point in all of this is that overall KH has had more misses than hits in recent years. i believe that he and babcocks resistance to youth is about to hamstring this team for years to come. i am really excited about so many prospects in this organization, but when they never are put n a position to succeed, then it doesnt matter how deep the prospect pool is...


i am not saying KH is a moron or should be fired tomorrow. i just worry that he is leading the team in the wrong direction. i also feel like his reputation is overblown and thats how he gets by so easily. 

#2450709 Joey MacDonald waived by Calgary

Posted by dobbles on 04 November 2013 - 10:12 AM

Yikes. Calgary is in trouble. Wonder if they are calling Holland about Mrazek...


i doubt it. they have 2 young goalies that they need to evaluate and see if they are going to be in their future plans. reto berra just played his first nhl game after being acquired in the bouwemeester deal last year. i think calgary will definitely give him a long look to see if they have a something.


macdonald played solid for them as a backup last year. i think they kept him around to have some stability with 2 young goalies. however, they weren't getting much out of him this year and decided to go with the 2 younger guys.