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Member Since 22 Feb 2008
Offline Last Active Mar 05 2014 04:15 PM

#2444974 Lineup Crunch: Who's going?

Posted by dobbles on 16 October 2013 - 11:14 AM

Against Boston he took a shift of 1:06 in the first period and 1:14 in the third period. Those are long shifts for a 4th liner that doesn't play on the PK. And as you point out, against Columbus he was out there for 1:22, and he absolutely had opportunities to change.

My assertion that it might be why he wasn't in the lineup was absolutely speculation on my part. I didn't dig through all his shifts but it is something I've noticed he does from time to time. And I don't think it was an anomaly.


that boston game i think is more of an example of what i am saying. in the first period they had 3 ES shift. tootoo had the shortest shift of the players 2 times and in the example you cite, he changed before miller who had an equal length shift. for the rest of the game, he changed with the rest of his line.


i understand that 1 minute shifts are considered long these days. but i guess the point i am making is that overall his shift length is among the lowest on the team. and addiitonally any long shifts he has either the rest of his line is out there just as long and/or they all change at the same. time. that does not imply that tootoo stays out too long and is hurting the team.


i looked at the philly game for good measure. in that game there were no shifts in which he had the longest shift for his line. nor did it look like (at a quick glance) that he had very long ones in that game.


i will stop posting after this as there is little reason to continue to move in circles, i just think that the assertion is false and all the evidence tends to support my position. have a good day!

#2444971 Lineup Crunch: Who's going?

Posted by dobbles on 16 October 2013 - 10:41 AM

Rant? I suggest you re-read my post, then compare it to yours and see which one of us is ranting.

I simply stated something I noticed about Tootoo from time to time. You citing his average shift length does little to refute what I was saying. Because it's an average of all his shifts, Tootoo could still have a low overall average but take the occasional extra long shift, like he did last night. He was easily out there over a minute at one point.

And I never said I expected Tootoo to score goals. I didn't even say he was bad. Actually, I stated that he wasn't bad. I just said I didn't know if he made enough of an impact that Babcock wouldn't try swapping someone else in his spot. Yeesh.
I didn't post any false information.


its apparently impossible to refute what you're saying as its based entirely on what you notice... ken and mick made mention of a long tootoo shift last night on the broadcast. i'm sure that was fresh on your mind, but i think you are making a long term statement based on that one situation. i looked at last nights shift charts, and ther was only 1 shift in the game that tootoo was out there more than a couple seconds after his linemaes changed. that was his first shift in the 2nd period. it did end up being a 86 second shift roughly. it was a sloppy change both ways with miller getting on later than tootoo and glendenning and then glendenning getting off before tootoo and miller. if i get more time i will go look at other game logs and the shift charts to see what i can find. but 1 long shift is an outlier not a pattern.


you were making an assertion without any justification. it ended up being pretty innaccurate. i would call that posting false information.


sorry for using the word rant in my first post. it unfortunately distracted from the rest of what i was saying.

#2436048 So....did Cleary just take Tatar's spot?

Posted by dobbles on 12 September 2013 - 10:09 AM

Yes,  I'm afraid so.  Tatar will be joining Brunner in Switzerland this season.  Tatar will never play for the Red Wings.  The Wings first line is Bertuzzi-Cleary-Samuelsson.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg are being traded to make room for Cleary as well.



Guessing Tatar will be waived and Nyquist sent to GR, with Cleary being double-shifted all season. We're possibly looking at a Dekeyser+Smith trade to bring in Cleary's grandfather as a veteran presence on D.


wow you guys are a regular abbott and costello eh?


here's what i don't get - the training camp lines yesterday already had tatar fighting for a spot on a line as he was slotted in on the 5th line. that was even without cleary. so why are you guys mocking the very real possibility that signing cleary pushes tatar down another spot on the roster?


regardless of ones opinion on cleary, tatar, or anyones contract, this is a very real subject, and one that is worthy of a conversation.


yet all you guys can do is mock the topic? i would hope for better here at lgw.

#2435998 Report: Cleary to sign with PHI, 3 yrs, $2.75m/yr, NTC

Posted by dobbles on 12 September 2013 - 09:21 AM

 Babs wants Cleary on this team.  I guess not everyone understand this. 


i guess not everyone understands that babcock is human and can make a poor decision regarding the value of a player. just because babcock likes him doesnt mean hes the best option or a good fit for the teams future. can you guys seriously come up with some better material????


if anything, shouldnt everyone be pointing out ad nauseum that 'if cleary was so great and such a playoff warrior he would have been signed by now. obviously ken holland is smarter than all of you'????

#2435844 Osgood to fill in Larry Murphy's job

Posted by dobbles on 11 September 2013 - 01:01 PM

Does this mean no more Darren Eliot? I can't think of many more "fringe" Red Wings to be a worse selection....Maybe Kelly Kisio or Ted Nolan?


to me its not so much that he is a fringe wing, its just that he is terribly awkward in his commentating. i will mute the tv when hes talking i just find him extremely annoying and poor at his job.

#2435842 Report: Cleary to sign with PHI, 3 yrs, $2.75m/yr, NTC

Posted by dobbles on 11 September 2013 - 12:51 PM

But rather than nit pick all his points, the heart of it is this.  If he is anywhere near as bad as everyone says, why did Babcock use him so much?  Why did he keep putting an old broken, turnover machine on the ice at the end of so many important games?  Why did he push for Holland to get Cleary re-signed?  I guess he's an idiot because there can't be any other simpler, more logical reason. Yet somehow in spite of Babcock's idiocy, most fans agree the Red Wings overachieved last playoffs.  Strange.  I guess he got lucky.  Him and Cleary. 


c'mon that is such a cop out argument. your post would have been stronger without it.


look, everyone knows babcock is a great coach. even on a site like this with the full spectrum of opinions, you see very few people that dislike babcock. so its not that people think hes dumb or should be fired. but to imply that someone is wrong because they have an opinion that is counter to what babcock has done is just asinine. the man is just as capable of mistakes as anyone else. he is capable of allowing his personal feelings to cloud his judgement. he is capable of playing favorites. and he is capable of just plain making a bad decision on the attributes of a player.


look dan cleary isn't as terrible as some on this site make him ou to be. but he also isn't as valuable as others on this site make him out to be. his value is somewhere in the middle. but to many of us fans that are happy to see him gone, it was just about allowing an older player that is on the decline to go somewhere else so that we have more room for yonger players on the upswing. everyone here wants to see the wings win as many games as possible. we just all have slightly different opinions on how to make that possible.

#2435242 X Factor Part Deux

Posted by dobbles on 06 September 2013 - 08:41 AM

i think there are several different ways to look at this.


but to me it has to be smith or dekeyser. we need one of them to permanently earn a top 4 spot to solidify the 2nd pairing. the first pairing was good last year. and since both ericsson an kronwall are veterans, there is no reason to think their play will slip significantly. so both just need to play this season like they did last year and our top pairing is solid. additionally, for whoever ends up in the 3rd pairing, they just need to play to that role. much less is expceted. but whoever ends up on the 2nd pairing will need to grow a lot.


because right now we hav 4 guys that all have question marks. quincey has played a lot of top 4 minutes in the nhl, but has just struggled so much since coming back. i am a quincey backer, and he did play well down the stretch last year, but i still worry if he is relied on as the 3rd defenseman. kindl had a great year last year and really showed his offensive side off. but i still worry that defensively he might be best suited for a 3rd pairing role long term. i hope i'm wrong as i really like kindl, but he would have to have another breakout year to legitimately become a 2nd pairing guy. and then smith and dekeyser i lump together. both have tons of upside. smith has yet to really look solid in the nhl, while dekeyser looked great but only for a very small sample size. so while either of them could grow into a legitimate 2nd pairing player (even as fast as this year) it is also possible they both struggle and are on the 3rd pairing or in the case of dekeyser, down in the ahl.


so thats why one of them would have to take it. as they have the biggest ability to make this years D corps a success or failure. personally i voted for smith. because we have seen such a variety in his play. so that makes him the x factor because he out of anyone has the most wide open season for expectations.

#2435006 Bettman getting a raise (again) 8 - 8,3 million in 2012 - 2013

Posted by dobbles on 04 September 2013 - 06:03 PM

i realize that fans hate bettman and he isnt as bad as we try to make him sound. i also get that his salary is not exorbitant compared to other sport commishes and other executives in charge or similarly sized entities, but i do keep falling back on something...


one of the main talking points of this last lockout was that a vast majority of teams are losing money each year. so is bettman really doing that good of a job as commissioner if most of the teams actually are losing money each year? sure, i get revenues are up. but revenues are up for all sports. so i kind of wonder if bettman really is doing that great even from the business side. cause we all know how terrible he is doing from the pr side... 

#2434876 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by dobbles on 03 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

Challenge for those complaining about Franzen. Find 5 players who have hit UFA status who have scored more goals for the last 3 years with a smaller average cap hit sincw signing their UFA deal than Franzen. As frustrating as he can be he provides good value for his cap number.


these might not be exact fits, but all come very close to the goals or salary criteria. since your numbers are all arbitrary to begin with, i feel the list is valid. it shows that franzen is not some super great contract that absolves him from any criticism:


matt moulson

andrew ladd

chris kunitz

michael ryder

erik cole

#2434697 How much do the Wings need another defenseman?

Posted by dobbles on 02 September 2013 - 12:27 PM

you do realize that LGW will overflow with Sproul sucks and Ouellet is garbage long before any of the two will make any sort of impact, right? Developing defensemen take time and hardly any make the jump without looking lost early on. This is why suggesting a trade of smith is insane. He will realize that potential, just give him time.


99% of the people would trade smith because he is a valuable asset. and unlike on xbox, in real life you actually have to give up something to get something. so its not a matter of disliking him or giving up on his development, its just the reality of the nhl. 


there are very few people out there that think smith should be traded because he stinks. unfortunately, one of them decided to make a thread saying so that stayed at the top of the list for weeks. made it look as if there were tons and tons of people losing faith in him. most posts in the thread were whining about overreacting, and the others were just advocating that smith be sat for a couple games and not traded. 

#2434169 Change to goalie pads.

Posted by dobbles on 26 August 2013 - 10:45 AM

The NHL hates goalies just excellent making the second toughest job on the team - goons having the toughest - even more complicated.


Want to bring back excitment to the NHL? Allow hitting, hip checks and other stuff again instead of trying to force more offense.


disagree 100%. goalie gear grew exponentially in the last 20 years. its just shameful how big the gear is. it has to be reigned in. and part of the problem is that they always talk about it but change very little. so there is this impression that they have been taking away all this real estate from goalies and it ends up being like half an inch or something not even worthwhile. then add to that that the goalies often just replace it with other pads to compensate, and its just a circle. in the article it already mentions that many goalies are trying to make the knee pads larger to compensate for lost inches. until goalies stop looking like the michelan man out there, they have no room to say anything.


i also think you are way off on allowing more hitting making the game more exciting. all you have to do is go back 10-15 years to the dead puck era. there was far less regulation on physical play. yet did you see more hits, more excitement? no way. you saw more clutching, more grabbing, more bear hugging. it was terrible.


nhl hockey has a fundemental flaw right now that prevents it from being as exciting as it should be. teams, coaches and organizations focus not on scoring more goals than the other team, but giving up less goals than the other team. and no i dont think thats just semantics. teams constantly play a style which is to not give up scoring chances at any cost. even if that means not taking any chances offensively. why? because its become too hard to score a goal, so teams are afraid to give one up. if you make goalies human again, then you will see scoring increase, which will change the entire dynamic of the game.

#2431415 Brunner Contract Talks

Posted by dobbles on 24 July 2013 - 03:05 PM


The team already has 7 NHL ready defensemen.  Quincey is more than replaceable with Lashoff and the emergence of Kindl as made Q expendable.  I know he won't get bought out, but I certainly hope he does not get re-signed next season, unless for some odd reason he grows leaps and bounds and has a career year...if he is here this season, I hope he improves to become that guy we hoped for when we traded for him. 


I disagree. I think Lashoff had a great year last year and really helped the team early on when many players were not doing so well. However, as the season went on he really showed some gaps in his game. So I would hate to dump a solid player like Quincey when there are questions.


Now certainly I am hoping that Lashoff made the most of his time down in Grand Rapids and will come back this year way stronger, but we need to be prepared if thats not the case. The defense is still pretty young overall with Kindl, Dekeyser, and Smith. We can definitely use Quinceys experience.






On-topic, has the length of time Brunner has went unsigned changed anyones opinion of his value? Its one thing if the Wings choose not to give him the salary he wants and then someone else snaps him up on July 1, but when all 30 teams have had weeks to sign him and no one has, I think that does put into perspective that his value might not be that high.


The longer this goes, the more I feel like we don't need him back and a young player can take his role on the team.

#2425594 How much is too much?

Posted by dobbles on 03 July 2013 - 08:08 PM

i think you guys are looking at it all wrong. its not an issue of supply and demand. its an issue of cap circumvention. GM's still are not held accountable for bad contracts. sign a bad contract? bury it in the minors, loan the player to europe, amnesty buyout, regular buyout,place on LTIR for multipler years, etc etc... or even structure the contract to take advantage of the cap rules. 


now, many of those things were taken care of in the new CBA. so maybe it will get better. but huge contracts to overrated free agents will immediately end once teams like NYR, PHI, TOR, and MTL don't have the cap room to offer insanely stupid contracts. but since players like redden, pronger, huet, and many others can get off the cap, free agency will continue to be stupid crazy. 

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#2416780 Griffins vs Barons

Posted by dobbles on 01 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

get to see game 4 instead of game 5 now... debating heading back down tomorrow for game 5 as well. hoping we can get around ok in OKC with all the damage.


i will try to get some pics with my crappy digital camera and let everyone know how the boys look.

#2415833 Who can be sent down to help the Griffins?

Posted by dobbles on 29 May 2013 - 10:53 PM

Sorry if this is deemed to be the wrong place for this, but wanted to ask.


With the Griffins still in the AHL playoffs, who can we send down to bolster the roster? I recall that we wasted all of our post deadline roster transactions on a few players so that they would be eligible for the AHL playoffs. Am I wrong in how I am remembering things?