Frozen-Man

I would say that the Kings having  5 top 15 and 3 top 5 draft picks in the last 5 years (and this with no 2011 1st round pick because they included it in the Penner trade) makes it kind of hard to compare their model to the Wings model who haven't had a pick higher than 19 since 1991. The Wings can't model themselves after the Wings without losing a lot more in the future. Additionally, the Kings have some good players but are kind of having a Cinderella playoffs I don't think they are going to be perennial contenders for the WCF.

Hmmmmm how on earth would 2 penalty killers and another defensive forward being at 50% hurt Dats and Z?.... Who do you think is going to kill penalties while those guys can't? Babcock literally said during the playoffs "I hate having Helmer and Eaves out because that means I have to use Hank and Pavel for defensive assignments when I'd rather have them focused on offense." paraphrased of course.

Exactly and that problem is compounded by how much time the Wings spent shorthanded during the playoffs. They had so many penalties and spent so much time short handed, while having Helmer and Patty out with injuries (they were our two highest forwards at PK TOI/G). That PK time had to come from somewhere. Dats went from 1:13 shorthanded TOI/G in the regular season to more than double that at 2:47 TOI/G in the playoffs (Hank had a more reasonable increase from 1:04 in the regular season to 1:47 in the playoff but still a significant increase).

Glad you brought up Shanahan. we traded for him. The let him walk as a FA. Got nothing back for him. He stayed 2 years to long.

I'm not sure how you think that a guy that scored 40 goals and 81 points his final year with the Wings stayed too long.  

Why are you overwhelmed by the article too difficult for you to comprehend?

If you are going to attack someone's intelligence you might want to reword (or at least properly punctuate) that sentence.  

I can't stress this enough: you HAVE to stop dismissing all opinions that differ from your own as being uninformed.

We were all speaking specifically about their current prospects, not just folks drafted by the former GM. You've neglected to do that. All you've added is that 1) you know more, 2) they have a new GM who helped build a cup winning Anaheim team and a team in Pittsburgh that was built the same way the Blackhawks and soon-to-be Oilers are being built: get top pick and take top player, and 3) they beat good teams multiple times during their last regular season, which resulted in missing the playoffs, again (even though as a Wings fan you should know that they always turn in stinkers against bottom-dweller).

No one has said Parise and Suter are a lock for the Wings. No one has bagged on the Minnesota prospect pool. You're the only one being contentious and pretentious about your opinion. Minnesota doesn't have a good track record, and citing a supposedly elite prospect pool (which should be an oxymoron) as a reason why the Wild is better off than the Wings and thus a better destination for free agents is a flawed argument, which is the reason for us discussing Wild vs. Wings prospects in a thread about signing Zach Parise Others have demonstrated knowledge enough to break-down each team's best prospects and the consensus is that difference in prospect pool + current NHL product =/= Wild as the better team.

Toews. Kane. Stamkos. Those are the only type of "can't miss" draft signings there are these days. The Wild need Top 3 forwards, Top 2 defenseman. Even if they got 2 or 3 Filppulas and 1 or 2 Kronwalls out of their current pool, they'll lack what it takes to make a legitimate run at the cup. And that's assuming they adjust immediately to the big leagues, unlike Filppula or Kronwall.

Contribute to the conversation and argue your point all you like, but you've provided nothing that justifies dismissal of others points as inferior to your own

If you would have done your research you would see that you are wrong and I am right because my research is better than your research.  


J/K Great post.

Is Babcock not watching the games out there?  Cleary is just skating around aimlessly and isn't able to help the team.  In not doing so, he's hurting it.

Call up some youngster from the minors who will play hungry and try to shine in the playoffs.  Kind of like Helm in 2008.  It's honestly more the coaching staff's fault than Cleary's.  He'll play until he drops, but they have to step in there and realize it's not a good idea.

Exactly, Cleary is in a bad spot. If it came out that the coaching staff wanted him to play and he said he didn't feel good enough he would be ripped here for having to heart. The coaching staff are the ones that (whether right or wrong) will determine if having Cleary in the lineup is a net positive or a net negative. I don't think you fault the player for going out with an injury and playing as hard as he can if he shouldn't be in the lineup that is a coaching decision.

Interesting read especially considering how much his contract is dogged around here and that he is often the resident LGW whipping boy.

The entire article is here:

Babcock cited his former assistant, the late Brad McCrimmon, in describing a good way to judge a player's importance: "When you're thinking of trading somebody, make sure they get hurt for two weeks and evaluate your team without them.

"I think the appreciation for Jonathan Ericsson went through the roof when we lost everybody. When Big E wasn't there, our penalty kill wasn't even close. And since he's gotten back, we seem to be back on track."

Having Ericsson back has been helpful for the goaltenders, too.

"He does a great job on the PK of blocking shots and using his long stick to his advantage," Jimmy Howard said. "Having a big body out there like that makes a goalie's life a little bit easier."

"I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey...  That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got."

- Mike Babcock, Jan. 2012

I'm not opposed to getting tougher and would wish we had more fights (I think they add a very enjoyable element to the game) but your quote is severely edited and doesn't really capture what Babs said or the point that he was making. The entire thing gives a different picture, and it was reported that when Babs made the statement you quoted he was joking, basically harassing a reporter for his question about the team's toughness.

“I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey. That’s not how we’re built, so you coach what you got. How’s that? No pride in that!” Detroit coach Mike Babcock said on Tuesday, drawing a laugh. “No, I take pride in the fact that we’re real disciplined. … We’re just built a different way, and you’ve got to win in your own way. Team toughness for us, toughness is how hard we are on the puck, and how we pursue it, how we keep coming. It’s got nothing to do with fighting and stoppages.”

Agreed.  I think Mursak is the only effective fourth liner we have right now.  I really don't understand why Nyquist isn't on the third line, and Cleary given a rest against a soft team like Columbus.  Plus, I really think Miller, Abby, and Nyquist has the potential to be a pretty effective line.  They all skate well and I think Nyquist and Miller have very complimentary skill sets.

I agree Miller, Abby, and Nyquist could be a lot of fun to watch and really give the Blue Jackets fits. I think Nyquist's skills will be wasted on the fourth line.

I was laughing when I saw Crosby trying so hard not to burst out laughing. That was just painful

Yeah, it was funny watching most of the players try not to crack up. NHL.com thought it was funny enough to put a clip of it on their site "Sens and Pens get an earful of National Anthem." Karlsson is the funniest though you can tell he completely loses it.

Wow . . . it was like my ears got kicked in the crotch.

Clearly the team still has offensive problems. I don't know if it's the offensive coach, or if it's the players, but next season, regardless of whether the Wings win the Cup this year, is going to see a pretty dramatic change on the forward lines.

I don't disagree about the PP, it has been abysmal and all the short handed goals against lately have just added insult to injury. I don't think it is quite accurate however, to say that the Wings have offensive problems in general. The Wings have had trouble putting pucks in the net lately (although I think injury has a fair bit to do with it) but they are still 4th in the league in goals for (as well as 4th in goals against and just one point behind 1st place for goal differential). Over the course of the season that have scored, they just aren't doing in lately (and again I think the loss of Pavs and Lids greatly impacts that).

Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Stuart, White, Howard, Holmstrom, Hudler.

That's the Grand Rapids Griffins?  


f***, the Grand Rapids Griffins should win the Calder Cup every year based on that.  Best minor league team in hockey history.

I don't disagree with your statement as a whole, they have enough of their full time players that the comparison is not accurate, however, I don't think Howard should be included in the group. I know that he played last game but he has been out so much that by his own admission he is not playing well, not tracking the puck fast enough, and the game is just going on too fast around him. A couple more games under his belt and hopefully he will round into form.

You don't understand comments/posts about different coaching styles/motivational styles in a thread about Calling the team out???

Awesome!!

I understood other poster's comment on the subject, just not yours. All I could assume was you were advocating for Tort's style because NY is playing well this year. Throw in the "Awesome!" if you want but perhaps it wasn't a comprehension problem so much as a conveyance problem. Really, what is this supposed to mean?

Thinking about this and asking myself this question as a pure example of the two way listed above to inspire:
Does John Tortorella inspire performance through love?
Does John Tortorella inspire performance through fear?


hmmmmm

What does that add to the conversation? You don't state Torts is a good coach, if his style works in NY, if his style would work here, if Babs has a similar or different style, or if Babs could/should emulate Tort's style. I still contend that your comment had no real relevance to the conversation, was it just a Deep Thought by Jack Handy?