Frozen-Man

I completely agree.

Thinking about Babs in this regard, my gut is that he uses the hardass with the lower performing and younger players, and the other approach with the likes of Lids, Dats, Z, etc...  It's hard to tell with Babs though, he's so composed in the media that I never know what the interaction is 'behind the scene".

It's cute how you go back through the thread -1 all my posts.      

Poster "Chunky Lover" posted about two ways in which to inspire; through love or fear.  I simply made the comment about thinking of which of those two ways, as pure example, which one of those I thought John Tortorella subscribed to.  I just picked Torts as an example not based on any winning/success that he's has or hasn't had...just picked him.  Frozen-Man didn't read my statement that I chose Tort's as pure example, which lead to him making comments about how Tort's is a not a successful coach and who cares.

I read your statement, I didn't and still don't understand it's relevance at all.

First of all let me thank you for being my high school English teacher in doing a nice job correcting my grammar.

I hate to tell you but nothing in my post had anything to do with correcting your grammar. When you  quote someone and modify the exact quote at all you are supposed to put it in brackets to show that you the modification. If I wanted to correct your grammar or show that it was improper I could use [sic] to show that there was a grammatical error but I needed to use the word "are" for proper grammar in the sentence I was writing. I could care less about your grammar.  

Second of all when did I say the sky was falling?

Perhaps, in these statements:

99% of Franzens shots miss the net by a country mile.

Same with Hudler, for every good pass he makes he commits 3 turnovers.

We have been playing lackluster with flashes of brilliance for 2 seasons now.

Even with the terrible play of late the Wings are still 4th in Points in the entire NHL.

Everyone sees Holland as the second coming of Christ that does no wrong.  Everyone seems to think that we can steam roll any team we are put in front of. I suppose that is why we have had early exits two years in a row now? . . . We as Wings fans have been incredibly spoiled with our success but it has also led to the fans being completely oblivious to thinking we could ever have any issues.

There may be a couple or random posters but seriously, who are you talking about? Most here acknowledge that there are problems with the team (as in almost every team, every year) but think that Holland by far one the better GM's in the league and that even with the recent poor play (which coincides with the "problem" of Dats, Lids, Jimmy, and 4 others injured) the Wings when they get healthy will still have as good a shot as anyone at the Cup.

Finally, regarding the "early exits" the last two years we still went to the second round of the playoff (and game 7 of that series last year), I know it is not what Wings fans hope for but only 4 teams out of 30 got farther than us the last two years.

Our road record surely proves we are a force to be reckoned with. When we were on our home streak I will agree we were playing with more passion.

I'm sorry but some of you here have the blinders on and need to step out and realize that not all things Red Wings is completely out of this world amazing.  If that were the case we wouldn't be sliding down the standings, we would actually be converting on our PP and we could kill a penalty or two before letting in a shorty.

Neg me all you want because I am sure it's coming because I am speaking out but seriously some of you need to open your eyes and realize we need to start doing something different.  Our players are clearly getting tone deaf.

Couple of things:

1) Were the players getting tone deaf when they lost 6 in a row earlier this season? Because they managed to do pretty well after that slump.

2) If you are going to be using our record to try to show that the Wings are not a force to be reckoned with why don't you also use their home record to show that they are a force to be reckoned with, or even their over all record - they are after all 4th in the entire NHL in points. The vast majority of teams in the NHL would love to have the Wings record and would dread playing them in the 1st round of the playoff (because they are in fact a force to be reckoned with).

3) I don't have blinders on and think that "all things Red Wings[are] completely out of this world amazing[,]" however, I do think they are as good as any team in the NHL and have a legitimate shot to go deep into the playoffs. Perhaps you need to take off your blinders and realize that the sky is not falling and the Wings are in fact still a good team who are battling major player losses and playing poorly during this slump.

4) The fact that we are "sliding down in the standings" yet still have the 4th best record in the NHL is a testament to the fact that the team (when even reasonably healthy) is a very good team.


Finally, it is funny to me that the Wings players "clearly getting tone deaf" amazingly coincided with Dats, Lids, Jimmy and 4 or 5 other players all getting hurt.

I could careless if they scored or not; 99% of Franzens shots miss the net by a country mile. "Franzen shoots! Wide high off the glass"

Same with Hudler, for every good pass he makes he commits 3 turnovers.

IMO, this is not a SLUMP. They just aren't lucky enough to be winning like they had been.  We have been playing lackluster with flashes of brilliance for 2 seasons now.

the Wings must be the luckiest team ever to win 44 out of 71 games (61.97% win percentage). I can think of 12 other teams in the Western Conference that wish they were so "lucky" and had as many "flashes of brilliance[.]" Also, pretty lucky to win 23 games at home in a row which makes them luckier than any team in the history of the NHL. Have they won some games that they shouldn't have? Yeah sure, however, they have also lost some games that they should have won. That is the way hockey and every other sport goes. Yes the Wings are in a slump, due somewhat to injuries (including one to the guy that NHL players ranked as the 2nd best player in the league and one of the top 2 or 3 best defensemen ever to play) and due somewhat to bad play, lethargy, etc.  But most teams have slumps, most teams have bad games and bad streaks. It doesn't mean that the wins they had are "lucky" or "flashes of brilliance[,]" on the whole the Wings are too good and win to many games for that to be the case.

I'm wondering if this injury trouble is going to hurt his chances of playing beyond this year.  Prior to this year, in his 19 year career, his missed about 29 games in total (or about 1.5 games per year on average).  He's already missed 9 games this year, which is easily the most in his entire career.

Is age finally catching up to him....is this a bad sign for coming back?  Or, maybe he is just taking an extra long break to rest up for playoffs?  Eevn under that scenario I would be thinking (is age catching up to the point where he needs too much rest....will he come back next year?)

It's funny but I thought it might be having the opposite effect, because for one of the only times in his career he is sitting on the outside watching guys play while he can't be involved.  Just might spur him to think about how much he is going to miss it all when that inevitable day comes, and convince him to prolong that day as long as he can. Also, I doubt being will make him wonder if age is catching up with him too much. A deep bone bruise could happen to anyone and can take a while to come back from just because of the nature of the injury.

Thinking about this and asking myself this question as a pure example of the two way listed above to inspire:
Does John Tortorella inspire performance through love?
Does John Tortorella inspire performance through fear?


hmmmmm

hmmmmm

You mean the John Tortorella who hasn't taken a team out of the first round since the lockout?  The John Tortorella who has missed the playoffs entirely two of the last 4 years? The John Tortorella who has taken the Rangers to a grand total of 12 playoff games during his tenure, while going 4-8 in those games?  Who cares how he inspires?

Exactly.

I am getting tired of hearing the same lame "when we get Dats and Lids back, we'll be perfect again"   Maybe in some ideal fantasy world, yes.  But in reality that ignores the facts that the PP still sucked before they left along with the points mentioned above.  Its a lame excuse that ignores the fact that the team had the same problems with them in the lineup.

And I don't even know what to say about the PP.  Its been absolutely dismal all year.  Wings are currently under 16% on the PP.  Think about that.  That is beyond horrible for the Wings.

I don't disagree with the fact that the PP was not doing well before Dats and Lids got hurt, although it has been even worse with them out. The point however, is that when they were in, the Wings were winning a lot more (the only thing that ultimately matters) were 1st in their division, 1st in their conference, and in a daily battle for 1st in the NHL.  They are no longer winning as much, and are not 1st in any of the standings. That is the real problem and that is directly related to Pavel and Nick being out.

Lucky for them they've got Malkin to pick them up; few teams can boast such an effective "Plan B."

Injuries are always frustrating, and so hopelessly out of anyone's control. We want to believe that a little more heart or grit or whatever will get the job done, but the fact of the matter is you need talent; a second line of Nyquist-Franzen-Cleary isn't going to do it.

Pavel coming back will have a huge cascade effect on the lineup. You add one guy that is great at scoring, can put guys next to him that are otherwise being wasted without a good setup man, and can demote players playing above their normal station back to lines where they are more comfortable.

Exactly, additionally it means that teams have to focus their best defensemen on Pavel and so each line below gets to play with less defensive pressure against them. The impact of everyone not having to play above their roll/ability when Pavel and Lids are back cannot be underestimated.

The only guys that matter that are out are Lids and Dats.  The other 5 'starters' are replaceable and Eaves hasn't played in ages.  Kindl was scratched half the time, Ericsson has been better but Quincy and Smith are both better IMO, Bert only plays when he feels like it and MacDonald kept the team in games with saves goalies shouldn't have to be making.

They are really only down 2 guys that matter IMO.  Everyone else that was / is hurt can be replaced or their replacement played close to their level (Howard's case).  Either way the defensive lapses that occur and the turn overs are not being made by the guys that are replacements anyway.  Its the bottom line, Kronwall, White, Hudler etc that are making the bone headed plays that end up being odd man rushes / 1v1 or guys not clearing the puck after Howard makes crazy saves like last night.

So you are asking me to find a team that has one of the best D men EVER and arguably the best 2 way forward in the game out.  Well Pittsburgh is the closest I can come and since March 1st when Letang got hurt they went 5-0 with Crosby still out.  Just sayin.

Couldn't disagree more. First, regardless of if they can be replaced there is a problem anytime you have 7 regular players out of your lineup. It messes with the team chemistry (that is why teams are often wary about moves at the trade deadline unless they need to change the chemistry), also you are talking about 1/2 of your regular defensive lineup that has to have an effect on a team especially one playing in front of a career AHL goalie (even if he is playing really well - you just assume it won't last). Second, Cleary should be out but of his knee but can't and is playing severely hobbled. Third, did you really compare Letang to Lids in any degree? Forth, as mentioned above Joey played well while Jimmy was hurt but no one would think of giving him a couple year contract and going with him as your starting goalie. The team knows this even if they feel comfortable with how he is currently playing careerwise he is not a NHL starting goaltender and that affects how a team plays in front of him. Finally, dismiss Bert all you want but Babs was raving about him before got hurt and the team thought he was playing great enough to give him a two year contract and raise his pay (they obviously don't think he is that "easily replaceable").

Bottom, you don't just swap out 7 players including your two best and your starting goaltender and that not have an enormous impact.

I think people are getting pissy because other teams lose guys and keep rolling.  This team loses a guy and falls apart and I think everyone has been pissed about the PP and its not injuries that are causing that problem.

I don't think that Jimmy, Pavs. Lids, Big Rig, Kindl, Bert, and Eaves are "a guy" . . . nor are three of those players regular "guys" --- You are talking about far and away the best forward on the team (and one of if not the best in the league), far and away the best defenseman on the team (and one of if not the best in the league), and a goalie that people on this site and elsewhere were saying should be considered (although probably not win) the Vezina (and also mentions of a Hart Trophy candidate). Other teams do not lose the combo of guys like that (along with the other four and a severly hobbled Cleary) and just "keep rolling"

The only regular on the powerplay point that is out is Lidstrom.  Kronwall, White, and Hudler all got regular time there.  Quincey has played the point a lot before he got here, and Smith is only being thrown in because Hudler is just that bad.

Let's not make excuses for just how incredibly bad this powerplay has been.

His point was about giving up the short handed goals. I'm pretty sure it was Smith that lost the puck that led to the shorty last night. The guys has 10 NHL games under his belt. It happens. I think that was the point.

http://obnoxiousfan.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/terror-in-hockeytown-the-voices-sayst-louis-is-better/ I do not want the Blues to be the cause of such suffering. This person is frightening me, help him now!  

Let's be honest. Apart from that being a dumb article that takes enormous leaps in logic, the writer is obviously a Blues fan writing as if he were a Wings fan. No need to worry about the Blues being the cause of this guys suffering, that is at least if/when they get knocked out of the playoffs.

i'm sorry i couldn't add some valuable hockey analysis as you did by posting a reply with a "****** chill" video and nothing else.

well done.

You didn't add valuable hockey analysis or even attempt to do so. All you ever do is trash the Wings players, coaches, and management. It is a constant attempt, sometimes under the veil of hockey "analysis" and sometimes just blatantly for the purpose of trolling. Perhaps you notice your comments are never positive, even handed, or anything but degrading and denigrating some aspect of the Wings organization.

Edit: You are correct, however, that I did not add "valuable hockey analysis" countering the statement that "without home ice advantage they are not beating the Canucks and that is a fact." It was a silly statement and not deserving of a serious response so I didn't provide one. However, great analysis on your "Hudler blows" comment real valuable analysis.

Without home ice they are not beating the Canucks and that's a fact. They may also not beat St.Loser without home and even with home ice they are still not safe as the Preds, Hawks, Blues & Canucks can all beat this flawed Wings team in the playoffs. Just like the 2010 & 2011 Wings playoff teams this is just as flawed!