Frozen-Man

he's still likely to get into the 40 point area, which is what Filppula gets and no one rips him for his $3 mil cap hit.

But Flip offers a lot more in areas other than pure offense that help justify his salary. (FYI however, I think Huds has played great lately and the last month and a half has really earned his contract).

Considering he's called Paddy by Mickey Redmond, I'm inclined to think so.

I think he is calling him Patty for Patrick.

I mentioned Lidstrom only because a large number of osgood fans like to blame the defense for everything.

Lids was good last night however, the DEFENSE was horrible hence the 49 shots.




Edit: misspelling

My problem is he barely won this game after losing two before it, and people act like he pulled off the performance of a lifetime.

First off, seeing as it was a completion of something that only 9 other players in last 93 years have done, yeah it was the performance of a lifetime. Oh yeah and he stopped 46 of 49 shots for a sv% of 93.9% - yeah pretty good game. Not to mention a few other little things like only allowing 1-7 pp to result in a goal.

The game went to overtime because of his "amazing performance".
He let in two goals he should have had, potentially 3.

Yeah and he did let in about 10 shots that should have been goals but he managed to stop them. Seriously you are complaining that 7 power plays and and 49 shots resulted in 3 goals. You can say Ozzy hasn't played well lately but you are just completely insane if you are trying to argue that he wasn't incredible last night.

This is with Lidstrom having an amazing night.

Yeah and the rest of the team playing very poorly and giving up 49 shots. Additionally, Lids may have played great but they were without Datsyuk, Cleary, Raffy (and to a much lesser degree Modano). To say Lids had a great game and therefore it should have been easy for the team to win is silly. They were without their one player mentioned as a Hart contender this year, their hottest goal scorer (maybe tied with Mule) and their 2nd best Dman. But yeah Lids was great so it must have been an easy win.  





Anyway, awesome game by Ozzy, incredible achivement, and hope he continues to play like that the rest of the season.

Agree, if you have the money and can afford it, go for it.  Get to watch games every night.  Do you have NHL Network? The only annoying thing is the occasional game on Center Ice gets blacked out if they are showing it on NHLnet.

I can't afford it personally, but my dad ordered it for my parents house, its always nice whenever I'm visiting, if I had the extra scratch, I'd get it.  As for now, I have to settle for the atrocious streams.

Yeah, I love it. I do have NHL Network which I enjoy as well. Really the only downside is when a game is blacked out because it is on VS or NBC and you don't get Kenny and Mickey.

The way I look at it now is there are 2 types of powerforwards, the traditional powerforward and the new age power forward. Guys like Franzen could be counted as new age power forwards. Basically they use their body and size to protect the puck, they hit but not all that often and they don't fight. Not all that rare.

I agree the term has evolved, and sadly there are very few traditional power forwards. There is not much better than watching a guy like Shanny who could score a beautiful goal and then turn around a few minutes latter and pummel a guy. I wonder if some of the reason for the change (in addition to the fact that players in general are just getting bigger) is that coaches aren't wanting their 30 goal scores to spend that much time in the penalty box.

Not a fan of this. Would have way rather seen Lilja back, especially after he fought so hard to recover from his injury. Salei hasn't played a full season since 2006  , and frankly is just too old. Whats the average age of our defensive core now, 37?

*sigh*

Was really really hoping for Mitchell.

Yeah but Lils wanted quite a bit more money and also more playing time and Mitchell was likely always too expensive.

I don't often agree with Scott Burnside, but I think he's got some great points regarding Modano.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=5403991

I found it interesting how Burnside didn't really lay out all of the stats regarding Mondano. He made it sound like he did very little for the Stars last year but the fact is he was 8th on the team in goals, 8th on the team in assists, 9th on the team in points and yet was 17th on the team in time on ice per game and was still better than half a point per game player on the 3rd/4th line and playing on a team that scored 30 goals less than the Wings. I think you can make an argument that the Wings don't need his services but I don't think an argument can be made that he isn't/wouldn't be productive for the price.

I heard Helm uninvited Holland to his birthday party at the batting cages...

I'm with you in wanting Modano, but I agree this is a lot better argument then that Helm &/or Abby are going to be mad at us for signing him.

I know, it cracks me up, you'd think it was junior high and who is your best best friend.

If I were those guys I'd want want short term deals if this is how they're treated.

Yes, Helm and Abby have not been treated well by the Wings organization, that is something you often hear about this franchise.  

You post too much by the way, no need to be so controlling.

You mean controlling  . . like trying to dictate what is the appropriate amount of posting.

That's the problem isn't it? you had to speak about his past. He's not that player anymore, far from it. Helm would score much better this season with Hudler on his line and some stability. He can do everything we need from the 3rd line center, everything. Modano fits fine but we don't need him. We have to many forwards as it is. We probably lose Ritola for nothing and maybe more. Why to fill a spot that that's already occupied by a great young player? This isn't pre lockout, where you can sign a vet to play every position.

This is short sided thinking, it's a bad practice. I hope the guy just retires.

Um, I think you mean shortsighted and also I don't think the phrase "still very good" is speaking about the past it is speaking of the present.

His own team want's to move on, that's exactly what the Wings should do.

His own team is not in the same situation as the Wings. The Wings should make the playoffs with a ripe and well developed team that has a legitimate shot at winning the Stanley Cup and only need to tweak their team. Dallas on the other hand did not make the playoff and is rebuilding their team for future success. It is not the same to compare what Dallas needs and what Detroit needs.

I wonder how they're differentiating this from the other contracts like it.

Because it is different. As I stated in the Kovy contract thread as a tax attorney there is a phrase when dealing with the IRS "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered." When Z and Mule had their deals the drop off in $ wasn't as steep or long on the tail end, they were only signed until the age of 40 (and the league acknowledged at that time that the Wings had a history of getting good mileage out of their players and had several examples of Wing's players playing until they were 40), the length of the contract wasn't as long, and the overall cap hit was a slight reduction from their prime years pay (Z max year amount $7.75M, cap hit $6.083M = $1.667M difference, Mule max year amount $5.5M, cap hit $3.955M = $1.545M difference, whereas Kovy max year amount $11.5M, cap hit $6M = $5.5M difference). There is a great difference between the two, Z and Mule were pigs, then you move on to Hossa and Pronger, little bit longer and/or little bit older and/or little bit more disparity on pay/cap hit therefore they (unlike Z and Mule) get their contracts scrutinized however, they are still just considered pigs. Then comes Kovy, longer term, older age at the end of the contract, greater disparity in pay/cap hit at his prime so finally the bounds are pushed too far and he is considered a hog and thus gets slaughtered.

This happens in tax law all the time. If you are a minority owner of a business (own less than 50% of the business) and sell your business interest you can take a discount on the valuation of the business for minority interest/lack of marketability/lack of control. The IRS has never set a percentage for discount but if you discount it 25-35% you will almost never get challenged, 35-45% you might get challenged, and 50%+ you stand a great likelihood of getting challenged. Some clients don't care and want to throw the dice and discount the value by 60% they are likely to get caught but will take the risk, they are hogs and likely to get slaughtered. That is what happened here, the actions/tactic wasn't different but the degree was and that is why they rejected the contract.

Zetterberg and Franzen's contracts take them up to age 40 (look at Lidstrom, Yzerman, Chelios, Hasek, etc...)

The Wings have a history of utilizing older players later in their careers than most teams, so these deals are not at ALL out of the realm of possibility of being completed...

Hossa's deal is sketchy, as it takes him to 42/43 and he has had a few injuries with the way he plays - much less likely to get completed, but also only a 12 year deal... not 17

Pronger's deal - after 35, so if they want to sign him to 100 years, let them - it's on the cap regardless and it's their own choice if they want to eat future cap after he retires...

This deal there wasn't even a grey area, it was flat out designed to circumvent the cap and there is NO way he will complete this contract, or at bare minimum (if you REALLY want to stretch) complete this contract at the value it is for.

Keep things in perspective...

Exactly

Not really the same at all in my mind for a couple of reasons. For one, the majority of the Red Wings team wasn't being dismantled before their fans eyes, it is the culmination of everyone that they lost that would make it harder on the fans. Also, as Vernon himself said "I was brought in here for a couple of things. . . [t]o win a Stanley Cup and to help Chris Osgood develop into a front-line NHL goalie."That is not the Hawks situation at all. The Wings were extremely high on the talent of their young goalie, Osgood played 47 games compared to Vernon's 33, had a better GAA, better SV%, and 6 shutouts compared to none for Vernon. Vernon was grooming Osgood for the future and they felt Osgood was ready to be that future. The Hawks have a $5M+ goalie who got benched for not playing well and not much else, the only goalie in their system even mentioned is Crawford who has a grand total of 8 regular season NHL games under his belt (2 in 05-06, 5 in 07-08, and 1 in 09-10) which has amounted to 1 total NHL win. Trading Vernon when you think you have something better in Ozzy (especially when part of what you brought Vernon in to do is train Ozzy) is not the same as not signing Niemi when your options are using Huet who Niemi beat out and cost you $5M plus or bringing in your AHL goalie with no real NHL experience, especially with all the Hawks have already lost.

"What's the problem? . . . Hudler had a chick and a pole on his day with the cup too."

Modano had ONE Stanley Cup ring TWELVE years ago this year!

I wouldn't exactly call that winning over and over again like some of the Wings players or Colorado players or New Jersey players. LOL

Modano never consistently had the caliber of teams that any of the three you mentioned had.

And the Williams signing last year was also a brilliant move I suppose.    Obviously, not all the moves Holland makes turn out for the best.   I repeat.... this an "emotional sentimental" signing not a logical one to win a championship.   I also am inclined to believe that because Wings preseason ticket sales is probably way down they see the signing of Modano as a boost for ticket sales.

There may be emotionally based bias approving of signing Modano by some on the forums here but Kenny and Co. who are the ones actually pursuing the dealare not going after Modano for "emotional sentimental" reasons. They are some of the best in the business and to suggest that somehow the fact that a few fans would like Modano here based upon sentimentality is no way relevant to the sound and logical reasoning that Kenny, Babs, Ilich, and the rest of the Wings brass want to bring him here.

If Dallas felt Modano could get them back into the playoffs they would have kept him.   Obviously they thought differently.   I wonder how many Modano relatives and friends are on this forum????   They wouldn't make any intelligent posts.... they just attack.

If he is STILL so good why has Dallas sunk the last two years and why have they let him go????

Now you are just being silly. The Dallas Stars and the Detroit Red Wings are NOT the same team. Dallas is a young team who is trying to build up their infrastructure to become a relevant contender again, Detroit is already a relevant contender who just need tweaks to improve on an already elite product. I guess by your rationale Niklas Backstrom is not good because the Wild had a worse record than Dallas and "if [Backstrom] is STILL so good why has [Minnesota]" been so bad? (The same could be said for Kessel, Tavares, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Malone, Stamkos, Eric Staal, Horcoff, Penner, Souray, Nash, and several others who are on teams that did worse than the Stars). One player can't make a team championship caliber.  

Yeh ....in 2008-2009 Modano had some real good wheels and a great shot..... that great shot got him a fantastic 15 goals and those great wheels made him a fantastic two-way player..... he was MINUS 13 !!!!!   Give me a break!!!  Any player on the Wings who is minus 13 does not get any kudos from the fans... that is for damn sure.

Way to cherry pick. You go back two years rather than using last year's stats you go back to the year before because they help your arguement. His latest stats he was a -6 on a team full of minus players. You can't compare his +/- to another teams. Look at Dallas over all and they are a minus team, they had two guys total that were above a +3 the Wings had seven. The Wings were a +13 in goal differential and the Stars were a -17, it makes a huge difference to play on a team that scores 13 more goals than its opponents rather than one that gives up 17 more goals than its opponents. I guess Brad Stuart gets no "kudos from the fans" since he was a -12 last year.     Oh yeah and those 15 goals still helped Modano be a .58 ppg player that year.