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#2620918 Stan Bowman (CHI) on CBA troubles

Posted by marcaractac on 18 July 2015 - 04:45 PM

The only thing I'd change is having some kind of break towards the cap for home grown talent. Parity is nice and all, but it is kind of a bummer when teams who draft and developed well are punished because of the cap. The cap should prevent teams from buying championships. Not force them to lose homegrown talent. 

#2620916 Stan Bowman (CHI) on CBA troubles

Posted by kliq on 18 July 2015 - 11:28 AM

Down with stroumboulopoulos!  He doesn't know enough about hockey and doesn't know how organize discussion with the panels. Nice guy and watched him since MuchLoud, but stay away from hockey. Also get rid of the long angle shots that show these hockey guys standing awkwardly floating on your sets. Get them some chairs and a desk. Ratings problems solved.


I think Hawks will be fine Sharp hasn't been as good the past couple years. They've done really well finding complementary players.


My opinion on the cap has changed over the years. I used to be on the side of Frank, Mickey Redmond, that it's a forced unnatural system, but the more I think about it, what's more boring and artificial than a couple rich guys buying championships. Let the smart GMs claw it out.  


You make some good points. I remember back in 2006 I was talking to a casual friend, and I brought up the Wings. He told me he was a HUGE fan back in the 90's, but when it seemed they started having their pick of whoever they wanted in the early-mid 2000's it really turned him off. He said that he couldn't respect a team that won just because its owner spent more money. At the time I really didn't listen to what he said and I completely disagreed, but looking back on it I can see how someone would have more respect for a team doing it the way its done now.


Did anyone out side of Yankees fans really respect the Yankees back in 2009 when they won the world series and their payroll was around 200,000,000 while the second highest payroll was closer to 100,000,000? Now the Yankees were an extreme, but my point is I'm starting to get his train of thought.

#2620913 Stan Bowman (CHI) on CBA troubles

Posted by kliq on 18 July 2015 - 10:42 AM


Reckless? Screwed over?


How many Cups have they won in the last 5 years again?


Of course, people say it every year, and they get pinched now and again, drop some people, and so far, they've found a way back. I'm not saying one has to like it or the team, but so far, what they've been doing has been working for them. I'm not about to be the one writing them off again at this point. Again, they've got a great core and they keep retooling and coming back strong. Cups don't lie.


I think you may have misinterpreted my comments. They have won 3 Cups, which is exactly my point. Chicago sacrificed their future a bit (not completely) to win in the moment and it 100% worked. BUT when you make the moves they made (ie. Hossa contract, Toews contract, Kane contract etc.) at some point when your young guys are due for a new contract (ie Saad) you wont be able to sign them. This is exactly why I have been against Holland signing vets to dumb contracts, because a bad contract in lets say 2012 could lead to losing Tatar, Nyquist etc. in 2014, 2015, or Jurco in 2017 etc. .

#2621404 Wings lose scout to leafs

Posted by arag on 24 July 2015 - 08:10 AM

Next is Helene St. James to move on and start writing about Babcock and the Leafs.

#2614854 The Bowman Effect

Posted by Dominator2005 on 16 June 2015 - 07:32 PM

Stan is a GM who's not afraid of making some treads. He has balls to trade: Buff, Ladd, Versteeg right after winning SC... Kenny's opposite

#2614817 The Bowman Effect

Posted by LAWings on 16 June 2015 - 03:52 PM

Anyone who thinks losing to Yzerman equals winning can exit the thread now.


I am sure that we can all agree that the Wings will not contend the next two years for a cup. On year three is it time to make front office moves to try and get us back to finals contention?


Basically what I see in Chicago is the blueprint that Detroit employed in the late 80s and early 90s coming up from being perennial losers. We got comfortable with winning and I am starting to think we let the wrong people get away and kept the wrong ones. If this is the case then the organization has to go back to the blueprint of trying to hire the best talent even if it means realizing that that current employees within the organization must go.



#2614804 The Bowman Effect

Posted by Richdg on 16 June 2015 - 02:34 PM

In many ways the RW's under Holland have returned to the days of the RW's under Murray. Skilled-yes. Able to put up points? yes. Winning Cups? No. Prior to Bowman coming on board we had tons of skilled guys that could skate. Stevie and Feds putting up 120+ point seasons. winning 55+ games per year. yet in the PO's when the refs look the other way we lost every year. Bowman changed that. Yes we still had skill, but he was the reason we added grit, size, toughness, and most importantly-everyone played D. feds become a 80 point guy and great defensive f'd. Stevie was threated with a trade if he didn't start to back check. Rouse, ramsey, Vladdy, fetisov were all added the the BL for toughness. Mccarty, lapointe, ward, Pushor, were all added through the ranks. then to put the bow on the top, we added the best POWER FORWARD in the game at the time. Not to mention smart and cheap moves for guys like Draper, Maltby, and Kocur. This group won us 3 cups. That is 12 guys who all brought grit to our lineup. That is over 50% of the roster. Do we have even 3 guys that can compare to those 12? No. those players were all Bowman's guys. he wanted them all, asked for them by name publicly. Jimmy D went out and got them. Don't forget Murphy to this group! LOL

Today, those are the guys that Holland wants to trade away. he doesn't want the gritty players that do the dirty work. But look deeper. it isn't about fighting. very few of those guys did any. or rarely did. But they were veteran guys with leadershop, experience, toughness, and many were no longer as skilled as they once were.

All of the teams that win the SC every year have skilled players, you can't win without them. But they also have toughness and grit. They may not fight, but no one does in the PO's. They all have guys that go to the corners and bang away, guys that put the body on the other teams D, most have guys that work the front of the nets as well. We don't do those things and haven't in several years. which is way we haven't come close to a SC in several years. The last 2 years we had to win our last game of the regular season to even make the PO's. Then a 1st round exit.

Now if we can see this, I am sure kenny can. The question remains, as it has been asked for several years now: What is kenny going to do about it? To date he hasn't done much. The why is the unknown.

#2614793 The Bowman Effect

Posted by LAWings on 16 June 2015 - 02:00 PM

Several points that tie into each other:


-Someone else sees the Bowman effect and it cannot be understated!  Except for Buffalo, who no one can help, the Stanley Cup follows Bowman and I don't think it's coincidence in Chicago either.  14 Cups in one capacity or another plus another 4 Finals appearances where he didn't win, that's 19 Finals appearances since he started in 1967.  If Scotty Bowman is the janitor in your building, that makes you an immediate Cup contender.


-The decline really picked up when Brian Rafalski left 2 years after Bowman, if you look at the standings and defense numbers.  Not filling it with a proper partner for Lidstrom and getting a top pair Dmen to replace Lids/Rafalski has been a huge problem that everyone knows about and I don't need to rehash it here. 


-Ken Holland needs to go.  He doesn't know why free agents won't come to Detroit, he keeps saying there is no one to land on the free market yet all of our competitors have no problems landing free agents (Tampa, Minnesota...).  I think the Illitches need to look hard at moving Kenny, he is unable to keep up with the modern trends and it shows.  Yzerman went to Tampa and has not been afraid to trade core players, and he signed key defensmen, and has turned the team completely around, he looks like a friggin' genius with what he's done the last few years (trading for Bishop, signing Flip, trading St. Louis, buying out Vinnie, signing Hedman, Stralman, signing super huge goalies and defense, that's not coincidence that whole back end is over 6'5", etc. etc. etc.).  Other GMs also have no problems trading and signing, it's time for a regime change, the era of Holland is not working anymore. 

#2614775 The Bowman Effect

Posted by 13dangledangle on 16 June 2015 - 12:48 PM

I think that the wings are in a lonesome category here as no other team has been as in the mix to win year after year etc.  the result obviously is far less bang for our buck in drafting which has an eventual effect on the team IF the GM doesnt make some bold moves...  


                                                             ...Holland needs to at some point pull a rabbit out of a hat here to get the big red machine going again, as people say over and over, Ken was put n a great position with a hell of a club and hasnt made that big splash since when, the Hoss?   

#2614758 The Bowman Effect

Posted by sdogg1m on 16 June 2015 - 11:20 AM

Big elephant in the room. We have not won a cup in seven years and haven't been to a final in six. Scotty Bowman leaves our organization and makes an instant impact on the Hawks. They have won three cups since he left. I think the organization has drifted from a philosophy that helped build a winner and I would like to see us return. The philosophy is hire the best and let them work. We poached the Islanders chief executive when they were winning cups and then we poached Scotty not far removed from Pittsburgh's run. Scotty left and then Steve Yzerman. I know the conventional wisdom is that we couldn't keep them which may be true. However, I hope the front office is working to figure out ways to bring these men back. In short, we should begin once again work to bring the best brains in the NHL back into the fold not see them leave.


In this age of player parody, front office brain power is emphasized and we let two extremely talented men leave the fold.


You probably could include Jim Nill as well but his impact hasn't been nearly as large as Scotty's was.


Detroit Redwings - Post Bowman
2008-2009 51-19-10 Regular Season, Lost Stanley Cup Finals
2009-2010 44-24-14 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2010-2011 47-25-10 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2011-2012 48-28-6 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2012-2013 24-16-8 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2013-2014 39-28-15 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 43-25-14 Regular Season, Lost First Round
Chicago Blackhaws - Bowman Era
2008-2009 46-24-12 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Finals
2009-2010 52-22-8 Regular Seasons, Won Stanley Cup
2010-2011 44-29-9 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2011-2012 45-26-11 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2012-2013 36-7-5 Regular Season, Won Stanley Cup
2013-2014 46-21-15 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Finals
2014-2015 48-28-6 Regular Season, Won Stanley Cup
Tampa Bay Lightning - Steve Yzerman Era
2009-2010 34-36-12 Regular Season, Pre-Yzerman
2010-2011 46-25-11 Regular Season, Lost Easter Conference Finals
2011-2012 38-36-8 Regular Season, No Postseason
2012-2013 18-26-4 Regular Season, No Postseason
2013-2014 46-27-9 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 50-24-8 Regular Season, Lost Stanley Cup Finals
Dallas Stars - Jim Nill Era
2012-2013 22-22-4 - Pre Jim Nill
2013-2014 40-31-11 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 41-31-10 Regular Season, No Postseason
Jim Nill's impact has remain to be seen but he has been granted time in Dallas. Steve Yzerman has clearly made the right changes in Tampa Bay and their team is on the rise. The largest loss impact wise is Bowman. Chicago has developed into a dynasty with him and his son. Should also be noted that they are doing so with Joel Quenneville as coach, a man who Scotty was able to dominate in the 90s. Our beloved franchise has seen better days, we could conclude that this is due to the youth movement in Detroit but I don't think this movement is helped by a brain drain in Detroit. I don't see the Red Wings coming close to competing for a Stanley Cup in the next two years. I hope to see something year three but if nothing happens, I would hope that big changes would be made in the front office.

#2609070 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by marcaractac on 20 May 2015 - 02:20 PM

Just keep Bylsma away. 

#2608661 Question for the Board regarding Babcock

Posted by GMRwings1983 on 19 May 2015 - 09:19 PM


#2608644 Question for the Board regarding Babcock

Posted by pondrocket on 19 May 2015 - 06:36 PM

I like Babcock.  I think he has achieved allot with some below average teams.  My impression (just reading all the same stuff everybody else does) is that he would really like to stay, but just doesn't see the team as competitive as it needs to be.  If I am being honest with myself I don't think this team is worthy of a top coach.  Too many holes, Hank & Pav are just too old.  It is the end of a great era.  I have my doubts but I am hopeful that Holland can add a couple of the right D & a few forwards within the next three years.  


At the end of the day Babs will have to move on if he wants a crack at a team that isn't going to limp into the 1st round and actually has a shot. 

#2608640 Question for the Board regarding Babcock

Posted by Datsyukian-Deke on 19 May 2015 - 06:13 PM

Did we really need 2 threads on Babcock?  Isn't one enough?  

One for Babcock speculation and one for Babcock landing spot analysis. We need one for Babcock conjecture.

#2608580 Babcock granted permission to talk to other teams

Posted by xtrememachine1 on 19 May 2015 - 01:15 PM

If true, fine by me ... in the end, he wasn't as sought after as he or most people thought.  Toronto, Buffalo, Det were the only true options.  Nothing from Pittsburgh, SJ, Edmonton, St. Louis ... 


Guess he's not even close to the 'best coach in the NHL period'.


We've been pretty spoiled when it comes to coaches over the past couple decades.  Look around the league, the coaching spot has been a revolving door, meanwhile we have a guy that led a mediocre Ducks team and led them to the Finals, took a Wings team that was in some serious transition after the Yzerman era and made it to the final four 3 times in a row with a Stanley Cup championship.  He also won a couple Gold medals at the Olympics.  Yes, he hasn't done much since recently, but he hasn't had much to work with since either.  Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart all left within a couple years and really were never replaced.  Franzen fell apart.  We've been breaking in new goalies ever since Osgood retired.  He's not blameless for the playoff failures of the past few years, but I don't think this lack of success is any indication of how good he is as a coach.  He's done a heck of a lot more than any other active coach in the league.