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#2614758 The Bowman Effect

Posted by sdogg1m on 16 June 2015 - 11:20 AM

Big elephant in the room. We have not won a cup in seven years and haven't been to a final in six. Scotty Bowman leaves our organization and makes an instant impact on the Hawks. They have won three cups since he left. I think the organization has drifted from a philosophy that helped build a winner and I would like to see us return. The philosophy is hire the best and let them work. We poached the Islanders chief executive when they were winning cups and then we poached Scotty not far removed from Pittsburgh's run. Scotty left and then Steve Yzerman. I know the conventional wisdom is that we couldn't keep them which may be true. However, I hope the front office is working to figure out ways to bring these men back. In short, we should begin once again work to bring the best brains in the NHL back into the fold not see them leave.


In this age of player parody, front office brain power is emphasized and we let two extremely talented men leave the fold.


You probably could include Jim Nill as well but his impact hasn't been nearly as large as Scotty's was.


Detroit Redwings - Post Bowman
2008-2009 51-19-10 Regular Season, Lost Stanley Cup Finals
2009-2010 44-24-14 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2010-2011 47-25-10 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2011-2012 48-28-6 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2012-2013 24-16-8 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Semifinals
2013-2014 39-28-15 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 43-25-14 Regular Season, Lost First Round
Chicago Blackhaws - Bowman Era
2008-2009 46-24-12 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Finals
2009-2010 52-22-8 Regular Seasons, Won Stanley Cup
2010-2011 44-29-9 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2011-2012 45-26-11 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2012-2013 36-7-5 Regular Season, Won Stanley Cup
2013-2014 46-21-15 Regular Season, Lost Western Conference Finals
2014-2015 48-28-6 Regular Season, Won Stanley Cup
Tampa Bay Lightning - Steve Yzerman Era
2009-2010 34-36-12 Regular Season, Pre-Yzerman
2010-2011 46-25-11 Regular Season, Lost Easter Conference Finals
2011-2012 38-36-8 Regular Season, No Postseason
2012-2013 18-26-4 Regular Season, No Postseason
2013-2014 46-27-9 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 50-24-8 Regular Season, Lost Stanley Cup Finals
Dallas Stars - Jim Nill Era
2012-2013 22-22-4 - Pre Jim Nill
2013-2014 40-31-11 Regular Season, Lost First Round
2014-2015 41-31-10 Regular Season, No Postseason
Jim Nill's impact has remain to be seen but he has been granted time in Dallas. Steve Yzerman has clearly made the right changes in Tampa Bay and their team is on the rise. The largest loss impact wise is Bowman. Chicago has developed into a dynasty with him and his son. Should also be noted that they are doing so with Joel Quenneville as coach, a man who Scotty was able to dominate in the 90s. Our beloved franchise has seen better days, we could conclude that this is due to the youth movement in Detroit but I don't think this movement is helped by a brain drain in Detroit. I don't see the Red Wings coming close to competing for a Stanley Cup in the next two years. I hope to see something year three but if nothing happens, I would hope that big changes would be made in the front office.

#2613690 Mcnulty and wheaton unsigned and going back into the draft

Posted by rick zombo on 09 June 2015 - 01:45 PM

Umm according to that article we didn't sign them , but I don't know about a deadline ... Was gonna ask if anyone's heard of hampus melen resigning? They didn't mention him and if he's not signed he goes back to the draft as well

Not the best but if ouellet and marchenko move up we have 6 prospects at d and one is like 5'8(hicketts) and the other is dissapointing(sproul) ... Not to mention jensen who if stays another year down will start his nhl career at 25

We need to draft mostly d's this year


I think that was the case even before these two fringe prospects were cut loose.


Take the best player available in the first round and then draft for need after that.

#2613543 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by amato on 08 June 2015 - 05:14 PM


For all my fellow game of thrones fans on here :P

#2611013 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by number9 on 28 May 2015 - 11:08 AM

Tons of coaches have been hired, mid season and with the exact same roster, and dramatically improved the team thereafter.  Bylsma did it.  Sutter did it.  Hitchcock did it.  Boudreau did it.  Therrien did it.  Laviolette did it. 


Literally the exact same roster.  Better results.  I don't know why people think that Blashill can't get better results with the same team.  Or why any improvement must be attributed to internal growth.  It's not like this is some unheard of thing. 


Yeah, but none of those coaches had to replace Godcock

#2609650 Slava Fetisov: Giant Hypocrite.

Posted by marcaractac on 22 May 2015 - 10:50 AM


#2609667 Slava Fetisov: Giant Hypocrite.

Posted by number9 on 22 May 2015 - 11:17 AM

The obnoxious thing about it is that it won't make Russian professional hockey more viable. It won't do anything he's hoping it will do.  It will just make Russian hockey crappy because nobody who's playing it will give a damn.  And anybody who gives a damn will turn their efforts toward activities that aren't subject to repression. 


How do I know?  Because it already happened with Russian sports.  And industry.  And art.  And everything else.  Forcing people to do something stifles motivation, creativity, passion, hard work, and effort.  It NEVER increases them.  Ask Slava, it's exactly how he felt in 1989.


On the contrary, most Russians regard the soviet era as the golden age of Russia. You only regard the period as stifling because you have been blinded by decadent western imperialism.


What's Slava's job in Russia again?

#2609228 Datsyuk's House

Posted by wings87 on 20 May 2015 - 08:36 PM

Are you trying to suggest that the photos in Putin's mother's apartment weren't already of McGrattan?

I laughed, I cried, then I went and hugged my life sized McGrattan doll.

#2606647 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by kliq on 07 May 2015 - 10:50 PM

At some point you have to stop rebuilding and win. The Oulers have been doing it for what? A decade now? Are they any closer? No. We have been rebuilding for 6 years. Are we any closer? No. We are not close to being a SC team. Yes I understand that the Oilers fans would love to be us right now. But I don't care. I don't want to share the SC with anyone. I want to win it every year. I want the RW's to catch the Habs and pass them for most SC's in history. maybe i am just greedy that way. Every year there is 1 SC Champion and 29 losers.


6 years???? I would say the re-build started in 2013, you could even argue 2014.  What about 2009 was a re-build?

#2602793 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by lomekian on 28 April 2015 - 04:46 PM

This is an impossible subject to speak definitively about because many of the positive and negative outcomes of a GM's decision are dependent on a range of factors largely beyond their control, so a case by case basis either way is either cherry picking or at best indicative of minor trends. The only real test is overall results and overall comparisons to others.


First off, it has to be acknowledged that he inherited a great situation. Stacked roster, no salary cap, devoted fan-base, supportive owner and a ninja European scout. Could do a lot worse.


Equally, it has to be recognised that the job he did in extending that situation and improving the infrastructure around him surpassed all expectations. Anyone remember the wings being 'too old' and in terminal decline even before the salary cap was introduced? The wings dropping out of the playoffs within two years has been an annual prediction since the lockout over a decade ago. Hasn't happened.


Of course much of that has been dependent on coaching and drafting, neither of which he can take much direct credit for, particularly given our best draft picks have been late round specials. But crucially, the primary aspect of management is to find good people you trust and empower them with the trust and conditions to do their job well. This is perhaps, along with his patience, his biggest strength as a GM.


One also has to agree that although the post Lidstrom era has been less fun than hoped due to Suter's 50/50 choice being dictated by his ill advised decision to join his mate in the mountains, the Red Wings have done a remarkable job at circumnavigating the primary objectives of the combination of draft and salary cap, that being parity and a rotation of who makes the playoffs. Of course, a quicker route to the big prizes is to fail badly in good draft years, but the roster has remained too strong for this to be appropriate.


The over-riping development model, for the most part has been crucial to sustaining this. Because the team has remained at least partially competitive, it has been important to only rely on prospects when they are ready. If the team was in worse shape, they'd be up sooner.


And yes, the late round gems have kept on coming , from D & Z to the comparative huge successes (ie statistically massively overachieving compared for the norm for their draft location) of Hudker, Flip, Ericsson (and even Meech to a degree!) in '02, Quincey in '03 (though waiving him was such a poor choice at the time, he has eventually proved his worth), Franzen in '04, Abdelkader to a degree but certainly Helm in '05, (06 had real talent, but none made it here for different reasons), Andersson in '07 (just about..), Nyquist in '08, Tatar in '09 (and Jensen and Ferraro and Callahan may yet get there), Mrazel, Pulks in '10. Subsequent years have a very good chance to be equally successful or better, but its too early to say. 


Howard (goalies are different!), kopecky, Smith & Sheahan are about par or just below at this point, and only really Kindl, Mccollum and maybe Emmerton are real disappointments. 


Trading & FA is a bit more sketchy, but its important to balance recent years with earlier ones. Every Legwand (which if you prioritise the streak is a wash), Weiss, Tootoo, Modano, and the later Sammy/Cleary versions or even Robert Lang or Cujo if you want to be harsh is more than countered by Cleary/Sammy first time, Rafalski, Chelios, Larianov (second time I think was KH), Hull, Hasek (both!), Lucky Luc, Brad Stuart, Alfie, even drew Miller! 


Also worth noting that barring the Robert Lang deal where Washington ended up with Mike Green, the wings have won on every single trade for draft picks or exchanging picks in the last 16 years. The only other exception was a pick that was eventually used for Patrick Sharp, but that changed hands about 4 times before the draft in which it was used!


The more recent trend is not that encouraging, but how many of the poor trades or FA signings have hamstrung us? Weiss is the only albatross, unless you decide that Howard's contract is as well, which is hardly a forgone conclusion given pre-injury performance levels. Of course the Franzen/Hossa thing will always be a frustration, but even despite people bagging him, until their is a cap reclaimation (NHL changing the rules AFTER the event), the Franzen contract has actually been mostly very good value.


Of course, what happens next is more important than what happened previously, and in the last 2 seasons the jury is out due to the unfortunate results of trades and Free Agency (such a shame about Cole, who looked a really nice fit in the top 9). So this summer is not insignificant. If Holland can bring in any quality FAs and get Kindl and Weiss of the cap, that would be success I think. but we can wait and see I guess.....


One thought I will leave with...imagine how much stronger his legacy would be if we hadn't seen the loss of Vladdy's norris levels of play, Fisher's punishing hitting or Grigorenko being seen as almost Kovalchuk good before his crash. We could easily be a cup or two better off. 

#2578081 What's with the "giving players hamster names" obsession?

Posted by jimmyemeryhunter on 03 March 2015 - 08:13 PM

Teammates gave me a sweet nickname that somehow caught on with my coach, other teams, refs, and even fans. Which was weird cause we didn't have names on the backs of our sweaters. But still everyone called me nine.

Did you wear number 9 by any chance?

I got called Mario when I was in squirts, when i wore #66.
not because the number, but because I wore red overalls, grew a mustache and saved a princess.

#2526470 Alfie informs Wings he wants to return

Posted by wingsfan4795 on 27 June 2014 - 10:38 PM

I don't see how this is good for the wings.  We have to wait until training camp conditioning to see if he can play?  Meanwhile there's $9 million left to spend (after RFAs are signed) and we are in sore need of a couple key positions, Alfie is set to take half that, so there's only $4-5 million left on the table... Alfie is a good guy, he tried this season but it didn't work out.  It's time to move on and make some long term moves to help this team rather then sign a guy with one foot in the old folks home that is only good for one season.
They'll sign Alfie and Cleary and there's only $3 million left.  Meanwhile every team is wheeling and deeling and Holland is still convinced this no longer happens in the new NHL, that there are no more marquee players left...yet big names are all over the place. 
Babs / Holland your time is up.  Just resign Sammy, Bert, Cleary and Alfie and call it a day, it's obviously too dificult for your guys to get creative and bring in some fresh blood.  I wish Mr. I was a few years younger...
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

I think blaming holland / babs for hypothetical situations that you made up in your head could be classified as insanity as well

#2522001 Inventor looks to drastically shorten ice resurfacing time

Posted by rrasco on 28 May 2014 - 06:36 PM

Isn't it ironic that technology is the medium in which we are reading about this story yet somehow it has generated some kind of fear about how tech is taking work away from real people and diminishing history?  Technology will always replace people, it has for a hundred years.  I'm sure the tone of the article is bringing about this fear, but holy smokes people, calm down.


Point I as making if you state something back it up with a link as I don't know every single rule of the CBA and thank you for the info; guess sit back and see how this plays out


Or you could just read the OP where it was clearly stated.

#2390134 Should I take an octopus to Dallas?

Posted by 55fan on 26 April 2013 - 10:33 AM

It depends on how serious your relationship is.   Have you met her parents? 


I'm one of those old fuddy-duddys who think that octi should be reserved for the playoffs, but since this is as close as Dallas will get this year, it's kind of you to give them at least a taste of the playoff experience.


If you're really nervous about getting caught- wear a Stars jersey (get a cheap one at a thrift store) over a Wings t-shirt.  If the jersey is white and the t-shirt red, you might need a white t-shirt over the red one to camo the red.  Then once you get inside, give the Stars jersey to an underprivileged child (one whose parents haven't raised them as a Wings fan), ditch the white t-shirt (they're cheap at thrift stores) and wander about proudly wearing the Wings colours.


Or spend the game in a Stars jersey and when security asks who threw the octo, just shrug and ask them to explain icing.

#2341039 GM Ken Holland says Red Wings might not make playoffs this year

Posted by Guest on 17 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

Newsflash to everyone: it's POSSIBLE that ANY team might not make the playoffs. The sheer amount of whining over the fact that the playoffs are no longer a guaranteed thing is sickening. Welcome to the standard state of affairs for fans of any other team in the league. Get used to it. Maybe now you'll appreciate the 20 years of success more.

I thought it was a possibility every season. Or did Wings have a guaranteed spot in the past? Oh well, fire Holland already. I think it's time. We have almost played one game this season.



<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="kipwinger" data-cid="2340950" data-time="1358448568"><p>
The Wings got worse on defense but improved their forward units and goal tending.  I'm not so sure they "got worse" as you'd suggest.</p></blockquote>

The Flyers/Penguins method of winning 6-5 didn't work out too well and the Red Wings can't match either of those teams firepower up front.

The drop on defense is significant. The goaltending duo is improved, but can they steal games with this defense likely needing that?


News: the Wings also don't have horrific goaltenders. Howard would never let in the habitual stinkers that Bryzgalov and Fleury allowed.

Straight up. If we had a full season this year and missed the playoffs, a lot of blame would have been on Holland, and rightly so. But with this shortened season he kinda has an excuse if they miss the playoffs. A lot of bad teams will be making it, and a lot of good teams will be missing it. Sprint.


He has more than an excuse; he has 14 years of success behind him. If every GM who failed to make the playoffs got fired, we'd be seeing a ludicrous turnover in general managers. But it doesn't work that way. Fans of the Wings have simply grown to believe that making the playoffs is something that they deserve. It's sad to see such a spoiled, unappreciative state of mind.

#2334058 Sheahan arrested for "superdrunk" driving

Posted by sleepwalker on 14 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

Some people just can't stand success I guess.

Hell, if I had the opportunity he had, I would be working out and pushing myself to be the best damn hockey player I could. Drinking? Maybe after I turn 21. What a dumbass.


I can say that too as an adult and with the "wisdom" that comes with age, but if I am being honest with myself, I would almost assuredly still do stupid s*** occasionally, like all kids do. Additionally, that last part is just silly, like drinking at 20 or whatever is horrible and will destroy your career and/or body, but at 21 it magically won't.

Not to downplay the incident, as drunk driving is stupid as f***, but to all the people talking about alcohism and diseases and whatnot, come on... He got a DUI. I am sure almost all of here that drink have, at some point in our life, driven home from a bar/party/friends house/wedding/whatever after a couple too many. That doesn't automatically make one an alcoholic. It just makes one someone who made a stupid decision while drunk.