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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
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#2686482 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on Today, 01:52 AM


If the rumours are to be believed and Trouba wanted out for months why didn't Kenny try to offer sheet him? if the jets are too cheap to pay their best defender offer sheet him with 8x8 and boom..Danny D. - Trouba without giving up assets damn

You don't know how it works. You'd give up four! 1st round picks with that offer, for the right to hilariously overpay Trouba.

#2686174 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by Buppy on 20 September 2016 - 02:31 PM

Either Holland is on board with the culture of mediocrity or he's allowing ownership to interfere. If it's the first he should be fired, if it's the second he should have the balls to tell them let me do my job or fire me. Then he has his choice of jobs on teams that want to win.

There is no "culture of mediocrity". Teams have down times. Deal with it.

#2686073 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by Buppy on 18 September 2016 - 08:05 PM

I was asking in the context of Nightfall's comment. I'm all for Cleary playing in GR and providing leadership - that's what he did last year - , but he's not replacing Hoggan's role if he was scratched for more than half the games last year. If he was injured last year then maybe he could be a vet captain type this year. Who knows the story? krsmith?

Yeah, he was injured for a while. Also missed some of the early season while contemplating retirement. Also, the AHL has a veteran limit. Can only play 5 vets (who have played 320 or more pro games) per game, so vets will sometimes rotate out. 

#2685547 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 05 September 2016 - 09:17 PM

Mantha, XO, 1st, 3rd gets Trouba all day. Very realistic, very doable, both teams win. If Winnipeg doesn't match a $5.5M offer sheet all they get in return in the picks. Trade them those picks and upgrade the package with our top O prospect and one our top D prospects.

Winnipeg would be stupid not to snatched that deal up. Problem is, Holland is too stupid to offer that deal.

That's a pretty gross overpayment. That's a star-level package, and once again, Trouba is not a star.


He's the 3RD defenseman on the fricking Jets. We are not the Jets 3rd D away from being a contender. We add Trouba, chances are he doesn't make us significantly better. Why would anyone think he would? He hasn't made the Jets better. 


Trouba is by far the most over-rated player in the league around here. I guess people are just that desperate.




EDIT - to add - I honestly don't think losing a 1st/2nd/3rd rounder all in the same draft year is gonna sink the USS Red Wings...There's a bunch of guys in GR who could potentially fill in at any time.

You may be right. Overpaying for Trouba (or someone else) probably wouldn't hurt us too much. If we could get someone for picks/prospects, even if overpaying, I might do still do it. The big problem with that is that it doesn't work for us cap-wise. The other problem is that the teams that are offering what we want are not rebuilding. A "quantity" package, even an overpayment, isn't likely to be the most appealing offer to them.

#2685515 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 04 September 2016 - 11:02 PM

Fowler played top pair minutes on a team that was better than Detroit. Pretty hard to find a legitimate argument that he's only a second pair guy and will never be more at 24 years old. AA had a good half season or so for a rookie, all projections have him as a second line guy, if not a third liner.

I don't disagree that Fowler can be considered a top-pair D (low-end at least), but the argument is that he does play on a good team. Very deep defense that rolls 3 solid pairs pretty evenly. In Detroit, where he might bear the brunt of the toughest defensive assignments, he might be exposed. His advanced stats are near the bottom for the Ducks. And even though he's young, after 6 full years it's hard to imagine he'll get any better.


And you keep responding to comments about AA as if it's a straight "AA for Fowler/Trouba" proposal. I'd think even the biggest AA fans would do that, if they were convinced it was the only option. But people don't want to add AA to a package that already includes Nyquist/Tatar. And they shouldn't. A prime-aged, proven top-6 winger plus a top prospect is a star-level package. Fowler and Trouba are not stars. Nyquist and Tatar are as close to star-status as Fowler and Trouba. There's no reason we should, or should have to, include any of our top-prospects.


I'll say again, if Murray thinks so little of Nyquist/Tatar that we'd have to add AA (or Mantha/Svech) rather than a second-tier prospect/pick, then he probably wouldn't be interested in the trade at all. They aren't rebuilding. Quantity is not going to trump quality. And unless Winnipeg is planning a flurry of trades this year, they aren't going to want two more young forwards to try to somehow protect, much less weaken an already weak defense to do it.

#2685504 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 04 September 2016 - 06:46 PM

A second line forward is more valuable than a top pairing D? Fowler and Trouba are both young enough to be helping Detroit for several years.

I think it's pretty well established that we are not all in perfect agreement in our assessments of the players we're talking about. Yes, I think AA will be more valuable than Fowler or Trouba. Obviously you disagree. No need to wander in circles.


Regardless, I think it's moot, as I explained in the previous post.

#2685445 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 11:36 PM

Lol 6 more goals on 24 less chances; 5% better PP percent, rank 1 vs 18. Like I said, you're nitpicking here. Anyways, whether or not it's "silly" to call Fowler mediocre, it doesn't change the fact that the trade would likely be a high risk, low reward scenario. If a trade happens to get a top D-man, it will be costly for us. And the way I see it, whatever move we make it likely will be a one time thing. I don't see Holland making more than one impactfull trade (if that).


So make it count. 

Call it nitpicking if you want, but the fact is their offense wasn't much better than ours. Two years ago, we had one of the top PPs and the Ducks were near the bottom. A handful of bounces over the course of a season can make what looks like a big difference. Ducks offense may be better than ours, but not by a whole lot.


And I don't think the trade would be high risk (though I guess it depends on the specifics of the deal). With the forwards we have, PP and prime-scoring-line time is already going to be tough to spread out, and that's without including AA, Mantha, Jurco, or Pulkkinen. We can't possibly use all the skilled forwards we already have. I think the chances would be reasonably good that we could replace one of Nyquist/Tatar even without considering the benefits from gaining Fowler. 


I'd agree that there wouldn't likely be more than one big trade (at least in the near future), but if we're not a good fit for any of the other rumored deals I don't think it matters. Pretty much Ducks or nothing I think (or someone worse than Fowler even). Or blind hope that something better materializes.


I wouldn't give up Nyquist/Tatar plus a top prospect, or give up AA for any of the rumored guys since we're not that strong at center looking ahead. And as far as Ducks defensemen, I think Vatanen might be cheaper and a better fit for us. But I certainly wouldn't just dismiss an opportunity to land Fowler.

#2685437 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 08:50 PM

Let's not try to nitpick points here. Who was the top powerplay team in the league last year? Our offense was bad. Anaheim's was better overall and the best on special teams. 17 of Fowlers 28 points came on Anaheim's PP. 


Now bring him to the Red Wings version of 2015/16 PP and I'd like to see how his numbers would then be. Fowler is being overrated. He's not that good. Giving up our best assets for mediocrity is pointless when it won't really make a big enough impact. 


Maybe there was a point where I thought bringing Fowler in would be a good idea, but I've shifted my opinion on the matter after looking into his numbers and what we would have to give up. 

Ok, their PP scored 6 more goals than ours.


Point is he was a key player on a good team. If he was good enough for them, he's good enough for us. Doesn't mean anyone thinks he would solve all our problems, or even that he's the best possible option. But to say he's "mediocre" is silly.


Even if Nyquist/Tatar are our best assets, it doesn't mean we can get anything better for them. Realistically, neither by themselves would even get you anyone as good as Fowler. Adding something extra with them isn't going to get an elite player, even if there was one available. We certainly have the potential to replace them from within, so it's possible we wouldn't even miss them. So what are you saving them for? WPG would likely want a different type of package. Sakic has denied that Barrie is or ever really was available. StL reportedly wants a top-6 center. Aside from maybe going after a different Anaheim d-man, I don't think there's likely to be any better potential opportunity.

#2685425 Mrazek's "Farewell to the Joe" Mask for 2016/2017

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 07:10 PM

Nor was Rasputin, he was born in Pokrovskotye and assassinated in Petrograd... besides the Magic, I see no connection to Datsyuk.



Really? It seems obvious...


1. Nicholas II was born in St.Petersburg, where Datsyuk now plays

2. Nicholas II was executed in Yekaterinburg, where Datsyuk was born

3. ?

4. Datsyuk is Rasputin


Plus, photoshopped pictures don't lie

#2685423 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 07:03 PM

Why give up your best assets we possess for "better than what we have" If we're going all in it should probably be for someone who can make a significant impact. Not someone who would be a mediocre 1D. Mediocrity has been the biggest issue on this team for the past like 5 years. 


Let's pretend like we bring him in. In a couple  years we would have $13+ million dedicated to DK and Fowler as our top pair. 


That's a joke. 

You think Fowler will get $8+ million?

I'm not a huge Fowler fan, but what that scenario has going for it is that it looks like it might be a good match. We can sit around all day listing defensemen we'd rather have, but if there's not a good trade fit it's pointless. Anaheim has a surplus of good young defensemen, and at least one is almost certain to be traded at some point this year. They have reportedly been looking for a scoring winger. While I wouldn't say we have a "surplus" of them, I would say we have enough promising kids that it's worth the risk in giving up one of Nyquist/Tatar plus a little extra.


Fowler got his points on a "top team" like you yourself said. "A team that won their division". What's the guarantee he would do the same in an offensively defective team like ours? (see Mike Green). Fowler is maybe slightly better than DK. But not by much. For the record, I don't even think DK is a top 2 D-man. 


I've already said, Trouba is younger. He probably has bigger room to improve than both of them. If we had a choice between the 3, I'd hope the other two are higher on the list. Trouba is probably more worth the gamble imo if he's to come here to play top 2. Is he a top 2? Idk. But definitely a better risk-benefit situation than Fowler is. Plus he'd be cheaper over the course of the contract. 

Dickie wasn't talking about points. Fowler led the Ducks in ice time per game. And for the record, the Ducks only scored 6 more goals than the Wings.

#2685420 Mrazek's "Farewell to the Joe" Mask for 2016/2017

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 06:36 PM

This is great. But just to make it clear, Dats was in fact not born in St Petersburg (if that was indeed what you were saying)

No, Tsar Nicholas II was.

#2685395 Mrazek's "Farewell to the Joe" Mask for 2016/2017

Posted by Buppy on 02 September 2016 - 04:08 PM

You sure about that?

I wasn't before, but now I am:

#2685343 Mrazek's "Farewell to the Joe" Mask for 2016/2017

Posted by Buppy on 01 September 2016 - 08:05 PM

Well it was still the Soviet Union when he was born.


Fun Fact (Or Not So Fun): His hometown, Yekaterinburg, is where the Tsar Nicholas II and his family (including the now infamous Anastasia) were exiled and later executed.


And he was born, and is now interred, in St. Petersburg. 


I can only assume that means that Datsyuk is actually Rasputin.

#2685258 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 31 August 2016 - 03:12 PM

... Nyquist and Tatar are what they are, small one dimensional wingers. Pulk is barely an NHL player. AA is likely a second line forward, Dekeyser MIGHT be a #2 with the right #1, everyone else in the D pipeline are 4/5 guys. I'm not saying dump them for nothing or a vet, but if you can move them for a good young player it's stupid not to, even if it's a two for one deal. The team that gets the better player wins because one elite player is more valuable than two secondary players.

But if that's true, and it would be such an obvious win for us, "stupid not to"...why is the other team making the deal?


We aren't going to get an elite player, because none of the guys rumored to be available are elite players. Maybe they could become elite, but far from a sure thing. 


There seems to be a good fit with Anaheim, where we both have what the other is looking for. But that doesn't mean that they like the exact players we have to offer, much less like them more than any other offer they might get. 

#2685000 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Buppy on 23 August 2016 - 07:33 PM

Here's our problem at expansion, according to generalfanager.Com both AA and Mantha need to be protected or be exposed...now who do you protect?

Nielsen automatic

That's two too many...we get 7 fwds, 3 D and 1 G.

Another reason to look to shipping nyquist off in a D deal. No one will snag Z would they, if you left him unprotected?
Sure, but if no one claims him, they're on the books for $4.1M against the cap. The only get $900,000 relief if they waive him and he clears...

I think a lot depends on this year's performance, but I'd expect Helm and Sheahan be left unprotected. I'd worry about Z, since Vegas might want some veteran leadership and may need some help to meet the cap floor. Though if he takes another step back, it may be worth the risk. 


And it's $950K in cap space, which would leave $3.05 in dead space. Either way though, it'd be enough to keep one of the kids, which I think is what Kliq was getting at.