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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
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#2606904 Free agents this off season

Posted by Buppy on 09 May 2015 - 01:49 PM

There are many guys that have been moved, several of which would have helped us. Hornqvuist who is Homer 2.0 for a front of net force. Neal a classic big forward that scores. Jordan Staal a big 2 way C. This year Perron would have been an upgrade at wing. Ryan a big scoring winger. Those are just some of the guys that actually moved, not the many "rumored" guys.

Point is, there are many trades made each year for high quality players. We are not a team that makes those moves. No team in any sport wins championships based on 100% drafted players. They all sign UFA's and make trades. Table scraps are not good enough-even if those are moves we may like.

We don't have 100% drafted players, but regardless, talent is talent. Doesn't matter where it comes from. In the past two years we've added two young 25+ goal scorers, the fact that we drafted them doesn't detract from that. That we've mostly (and perhaps permanently) lost one of the scorers we'd had hurts. That and that our big UFA signing hasn't lived up to expectations. If Franzen and Weiss had been healthy and Weiss was as productive as he was in Florida, it'd be a pretty big difference.


Franzen has been as productive as Staal the past two years, and Staal was healthy for one of them. Weiss's production has been about 60% of what it was in Florida. We could have brought in Ryan (though likely at the cost of Nyquist or Tatar), and he could have gotten hurt and/or his production could have dropped (has dropped in Ottawa in fact). Hornqvist and Neal were traded for each other, and neither produced more. Lateral move. Cole is as good or better than Perron. Zidlicky isn't great, but filled a need.


Yes, there are moves made for high quality players each year, from trades, UFAs, or promoting prospects. But not necessarily by every team every year. We have made some of them. What we've added at forward is as good or better than most teams. On defense, we've missed out on a few UFAs we tried to get. That does not mean we are not a team that makes those moves, or that we're trying to win a Cup with only drafted players. It only means that a few UFA defensemen chose other teams. Sucks that it's happened a few times in a row at a time when we really need it, but that's life. It's happened to every team, and will happen to every team again.

#2606661 DRW Free Agents / Salary Thread

Posted by Buppy on 08 May 2015 - 12:14 AM

Nah, I don't think his system is designed to stifle offense. I think its designed to limit shots, no matter what that does to offense. And that's why we haven't been able to score since 2010

10-11 season we were one of the highest scoring and shooting teams in the league. 11-12 we dipped a little but were still decent. When Lidstrom left we took a nose dive, gpg starting to rebound now, though shots are still down.


7 years of Babcock and being at or near the top of the league in offense. We lose one of the best possession players of our era (maybe any era), and our offense drops 1/2 a goal per game. Shots for go down. Shots against go up. And you think it's the coach.




Babs may be a "defense first" coach, but for most of his career his teams have been near the top in shots for. Sure doesn't seem like his philosophy limits offense at all. Even 03-04 Ducks, despite not much offensive talent, were 4th in the league in shots.

#2606657 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Buppy on 07 May 2015 - 11:37 PM

At some point you have to stop rebuilding and win. The Oulers have been doing it for what? A decade now? Are they any closer? No. We have been rebuilding for 6 years. Are we any closer? No. We are not close to being a SC team. Yes I understand that the Oilers fans would love to be us right now. But I don't care. I don't want to share the SC with anyone. I want to win it every year. I want the RW's to catch the Habs and pass them for most SC's in history. maybe i am just greedy that way. Every year there is 1 SC Champion and 29 losers.

3 years, maybe you could say 4 if you want to stretch a bit. Some might even say 2. Some might even say it's just prep work for the real rebuild that won't truly start until Pav and Hank are gone. We were still one of the best teams in the league in 09-10 and 10-11. Only slipped a little in 11-12.

#2606588 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Buppy on 07 May 2015 - 03:00 PM

So? Every owner tells his GM to win. No surprise here. But is being in the top 53% good enough? I wonder if back 40 years ago Mr I decided I just want to have the 20th biggest pizza chain in the world. or did he decide to be the biggest? Hmmm i wonder which it was...... On top of that, do you honestly believe there is anything Holland could do right now to get fired? Nope. he is a lifer. If he decided to rebuild, he would still be here as the GM....

We are rebuilding. Half the team is 26 or under and wasn't around just a few years ago. We have a bunch more kids in the pipeline.


Most teams when rebuilding are content with missing the playoffs entirely. Doesn't mean they will always be content with that. What in the world would make you people believe that being satisfied with just making the playoffs now means the organization will never aspire to anything more?

#2606362 DRW Free Agents / Salary Thread

Posted by Buppy on 06 May 2015 - 11:54 AM



My thinking is actually not far off from most of what you said. These were depth signings that didn't really hurt us, but that's a low bar for what's considered a good signing. When you buy out a player, I think that means it was definitely a bad signing. Neither Tootoo or Coliacovo where bad here. Coliacovo only played 6 regular season games. He didn't hurt us, but that's not a signing that helped you out especially when he took up 2.5 mill for a caphit. Tootoo did his thing and changed our minds and decided that didn't fit our team. That also didn't hurt us, but I'm still not ready to call that a good signing.


White was good that 1st year and he was a bridge player, Yeah, maybe that's all we wanted him to be. Sammy for 2 years at a 3 million caphit for 30gp 1g, 3a - I don't think anyone should consider a worthwhile signing. The short term of that deal didn't hurt us all that much, but it did keep Nyquist out the lineup and/or prohibited us from signing anyone else.


Commodore didn't take #64 so he will always be considered a disappointment. 

Not saying they're good signings, I'm saying they're irrelevant. Players signed to fill the bottom of the roster rarely help the team much. People just wanted players for the top lines, so they think of those signings in those terms. 

#2606179 Kronwall in the Playoffs

Posted by Buppy on 05 May 2015 - 07:26 PM


Three seasons is enough of a sample size.  I doubt he's going to be any younger next season.  He may have been a better #1 a few years before Lidstrom retired.  Maybe not.  But at this point, what exactly is Kronwall's upside?  


25 games is 25 games, no matter how many seasons it's spread over. It's a small sample. The numbers I gave are his regular season numbers from the same 3 years. That puts him 11th (or 10th if you count Burns as a forward) in defense scoring in that span. He also plays in all situations and against the top opposition. That he hasn't had many playoff points in that time doesn't diminish that.


In the last 2 years he has 1g, 4p in 11 games. Not all that good but not really that bad either. Your stats are skewed by the one year he only managed 2p in 14g.


You could argue that we need a Norris caliber #1 on the basis that almost all the Cup winners in the last 25 years or so have had one. You can say that Kronwall is not Norris caliber. You can say Kronwall needs to produce more in the playoffs. You might even argue that he's a below average #1. But to say he's not a #1 at all is just silly.

#2605834 should mrazek get #1 tag next season

Posted by Buppy on 03 May 2015 - 11:00 PM

Would you enlighten us as to what is not being comprehend? We're just going off of what you wrote. Here, I'll quote it for you again.


If your point isn't trading Mrazek over Howard, what is it?? And what do Pavel and Hank have to do with it? Is it because you mentioned potentially trading them right before mentioning trading Mrazek? You're right, they have trade value. But no one is stupid enough to think they would actually get traded. That's why no one is upset about it.


Again, what exactly is being uncomprehend from what you wrote?

The poster I was responding to said Howard was our best trade asset. I disagreed and gave a list of other players I believe would be better. Nowhere did I suggest that anyone, let alone Mrazek, actually should be traded.


To make it even simpler: I don't think either goalie should be traded right now.

#2605824 Things you would like to see for 2015-16 Season

Posted by Buppy on 03 May 2015 - 10:25 PM

Couldn't this go in the "Things you'd like to see thread..."? Trying to follow two threads on the same topic is so confusing.

#2605610 Free agents this off season

Posted by Buppy on 02 May 2015 - 06:43 PM

"underperforming veterans" is a funny way to spell Weiss.  :ninja:

#2605541 Who is the coach next season?

Posted by Buppy on 02 May 2015 - 01:45 AM


Yes, I am saying that. 


Neither Kane, nor Toews, have been as good as Zetterberg and Datsyuk were in 2008.  That's a fact.  They simply weren't.  Kane had 88 points and was a joke defensively defensively.  Toews was better at defense, but scored 68.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg score 90+ points, were world class defensive players AND played on both the PP and penalty kill to boot. 


If you think Toews and Kane in 2010 and 2012 were better (or as good) as Dats or Z in 2008 you're nuts.  They weren't, by any objective measure. 


Kopitar is an excellent player.  World class.  He's never score 90+, played on both special teams, and played world class defense. Neither did Carter.  Or Brown.  Or Richards.  Or Gaborik. 


No team, in the modern era has won the Cup with two players that good.  Not Pittsburgh.  Not Chicago.  Not Los Angeles or Boston. 


People forget just how good Dats and Z and Lidstrom were in 2008. They were simultaneously two of the top five best offensive AND the defensive fowards in the world, at the same time.  Lidstrom was THE best offensive and defensive defenseman at the same time.  Nobody you mentioned was has every been that good.  Period.


And I'm honestly not even trying to rag on Babs here.  I don't think he needs players that good to win.  And if he does, I hope he's not holding his breath, because you're not likely to find anybody that good in a while.  I'm criticizing folks who think that Babs is looking for another Pav and Z for his next job.  There aren't another Pav and Z.  Anywhere. 


Please, if you've got a single argument that suggests that any of Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, or anybody else was as good as Dats and Z were in 2008, I'd love to hear it. 


Edit:  I'm focusing on the forwards because that was the original context of the debate, but the same applies for the defense.  Doughty and Keith are amazing.  They're not better than Lidstrom was in 2008.  Not even close. 


But again, my point is that I doubt finding "another Pav and Z" is Babs' primary motivation.  Because he won't be able to, and he shouldn't need to.  And if it is his primary motivation, then he's not that great. 

And what, if not an attempt to rag on Babs, would make you assume that "Datsyuk and Zetterberg" means specifically Datsyuk and Zetterberg at their absolute peak? 


Some believe Babs may be looking for that kind of player because he specifically mentioned those two (and Kronwall). Then he said, "You've got to have big-time players up the middle and on the back to be successful". Big-time players. Not "90+ pt Selke finalists and generational defensemen". I'll bet you won't find many successful teams that didn't have big-time players.


Look at Zetterberg in terms of his whole career rather than just his best year and you could argue that Kopitar and Toews are at a very similar level. Crosby and Malkin aren't as good defensively but much better offensively, and most would say they're better overall. Getzlaf, Seguin, Giroux, Tavares, Stamkos, and I'm sure several others could be considered close or even better. Same goes for Datsyuk, really. Maybe not a lot will reach their peak point totals, maybe none who are also Selke candidates the same year, but you're the only one taking it so overly specific.


Teams are rarely successful without superstars. Replacing ours is a legitimate concern. Most likely isn't going to happen until we get much worse. I'd be surprised if that concern isn't a major factor in Babs' decision. Fortunately, there aren't likely to be many teams that are better off in the "star" department and also looking for a coach.

#2604903 should mrazek get #1 tag next season

Posted by Buppy on 30 April 2015 - 08:21 AM

Goalies generally do not garner a big return. A goalie with a big contract for 4 more years and coming off a bad 2nd half and being benched for the playoffs certainly isn't. Trading Howard wouldn't solve any problems but could potentially cause one. 

#2599997 Unforced icings

Posted by Buppy on 24 April 2015 - 11:51 AM

I'd say they have at least 15-20 unforced icings a game. Say the wings win 50% of those faceoffs that's almost 10 extra offensive posessions for their opponent a game while the wings are losing possible posessions in the offensive zone. It's frustrating to watch, and I basically count it as a turnover even if they win the ensuing faceoff.

LOL. You're not even in the ballpark. Wings have 18 icings so far in the series. Can't determine forced/unforced, but I'd say most icings tend to be unforced. TB has 12.


You can find the info in the play by play reports on NHL.com. Far too much work to go through the whole season, much less to do so for the whole league.


Like most other stats, I would assume the Wings are between a bit above or a bit below average. 

#2596723 Recommend me a game from the glory days

Posted by Buppy on 19 April 2015 - 08:22 PM

'95 series against Chicago was a great one. 3 OT wins. Game 5 especially awesome. Belfour was unreal until the last goal. Plus, anything that ends with a sad Jeremy Roenick is great.


The demolition of the Sharks in the 2nd round that year was fun too, though you need to watch the 94 series first for the full "gratifying revenge" effect.


Crashing back to Earth against NJ was much less fun to witness.

#2596718 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by Buppy on 19 April 2015 - 07:42 PM

End of the AHL regular season today. Pulkkinen lead the league in goals, despite playing only 46 games. Also apparently the highest PPG in the league.


Congrats Teemu!

#2592147 Buffalo clinches last spot

Posted by Buppy on 10 April 2015 - 09:17 PM

They're put up a good fight against the jackets but lost 2:4 Even if they win tomorrow and Arizona loses Buffalo has less rows so congratulations you are getting one of the 2 phenoms. With that pick plus the deep pockets of Pegula this is going to be a very scary team soon and their fans deserve it. Enjoy McEichel

Now that they have nothing to not play for, let's hope they come out to play tomorrow and beat the Pens. Though Boston will probably lose anyway...