Wouldn't be one of my favorites. Mostly because I'd have to kill myself in embarrassment the first time a Detroit fan blew a train whistle.
He's one of those guy you hate playing against, but we all know he would be a fan favorite in Detroit. Hopefully he sorts his problems out and returns to the ice soon.
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BuppyMember Since 14 Feb 2009
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Posted by Buppy on 27 December 2010 - 11:08 PM
Posted by Buppy on 25 December 2010 - 04:55 AM
I guess nothing tells as much about the popularity of 80's NHL Hockey like being pre-empted on local non-network TV by Three's Company reruns.
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Posted by Buppy on 25 December 2010 - 03:21 AM
...I don't see what you mean I guess.
You two seem a little confused about what I was saying.
I don't hate Filppula is that he has a lot of potential but he never quite lives up to it... he always seems to be on the cusp of breaking out to be a 60 point player but then he cools down and plays mediocre for a few games. If he were a 3rd line guy that would be just fine, a 3rd line center putting up 40+ points is a wonderful thing to have, but as a second line center its just puts that much more pressure on the first line to produce. ....
PPG Regular season: 0.95
PPG Playoffs: 0.94
PPG Regular: 1.39
PPG playoffs: 1.32
PPG regular: 1.21
PPG playoffs: 1.18
PPG regular: 0.94
PPG playoffs: 0.84
PPG regular: 0.45
PPG playoffs: 0.55
You'll notice that Flip is the only one of those five whose playoff PPG is higher than their regular season PPG. While the other four are certainly much better players, they are also paid much more. Flip also has the best point/cap hit in the playoffs of all those players.
You also seem to have a very misguided notion of what a second line center is supposed to be. Last year, there were 57 centers who scored 40 or more points. There were 25 who scored 60 or more. Only 53 forwards who scored 60 or more.
40+ points IS a decent second line NHL center. Malkin is not the standard for a good second line center. 60+ points pretty much means first line talent.
On a Cup caliber team, the standards are higher of course, but that is less an indictment of Flip than it is praise of the Wings. He is certainly no worse than the 5th best forward on the team, and I think it's pretty close between him and Cleary for that spot. Flip's detractors seem to think he either needs to be a consistent scorer or relegated to the third line. The truth is if he could consistently produce points the way he does when he's 'on', that would pretty much make him Datsyuk/Zetterberg, and he'd be commanding twice the salary, and thus playing for another team. You can't compare him to Zetterberg and other superstar players. But some people seem to be under the impression that Flip has to be at that level to be considered valuable.
Another thing people complain about how long we've been waiting for Flip to break out, as if certain fans' unrealistic expections determine how successful a player is. A couple years ago, people expected a lot from Flip. People also expected him to center a second line with Franzen and Hossa. Considering he spent the majority of the year centering the third line with Hudler and Sammy, with minimal PP time, 40 points in 80 games WAS a lot. Put him in the top 200 in PPG, top 160 in points, among forwards...fringe 2nd line territory. People expected a lot last year. But who expected him to spend a third of the season out with injury and another third playing with the likes of Leino (Detroit version), Williams, Miller, Abby, etc. Despite that, he was still top 170 in points, and top 120 in PPG. Solidly 2nd line production. In one 31 game stretch after he came back from his injury, he scored 27 points. 31 games is pretty long to be considered an aberrant streak. That's a protracted run of top-line caliber production. The only way you can complain about anything prior to this season is if you ignore circumstance or have insanely unrealistic standards.
The guy has real talent offensively. Easily a 2nd-liner by league-wide standards. While his point totals are a bit disappointing thus far this season, people really need to stop judging him by an all-star standard. Need to realize that players like him are going to be streaky and inconsistent scorers, thus why he makes $3M instead of $6M. Realize that a few good games, like the 8 points in 3 games he had last year, would bump him right up close to the 60 point pace people think he should be at.
I would trade him for a ~35+ goal scorer in a heartbeat, because the team needs someone like that a lot more than we need someone like Flip. But I'm not going to rag on the kid for not being something he's neither expected to be, nor is paid to be.
Posted by Buppy on 19 December 2010 - 12:02 PM
If you want to discuss hockey, try one of the threads discussing hockey. If you want to discuss other teams and their fans, remember that this a Wings board, with a Wings bias, and the prevailing opinion about other teams is going to fall somewhere in the range of 'indifference' to 'they suck'. Deal.
I have to amend my statement about coming here and being able to discuss hockey with hockey fans in the past.
After looking at this thread I notice that except for haroldsnepts and hockeytown0001 you are all either newbees or old trolls. Makes me kind of sad, yeah, there was some ribbing both ways but it is fun to discuss hockey between different fan bases. ...
The right, sure. It's a free country. Those fans have the right to be classless douchebags. And we have the right to call them as such.
I never said he shouldn't have been booed. I said Hawks fans had every right to boo.
Never stated whether I would boo or not.
Idc if mickey generalized. what im trying to say is that it wasn't classless.
Justification is debateable, and it seems we can't agree on that issue. So I guess we should just leave it at that.
Forgive me if I rant a bit here.
I think you are missing the pointof what I am trying to say. Im not trying to say that Detroit dont have loyal fans, because they do. All I am saying is when people try to bash the Blackhawks fanbase and call most of them bandwagoners, then turn around and praise the Red wings fanbase, I just dont think a lot of them have the right to do that. The Red Wings have been in contention for two decades, so most of the fans around here (I didnt say all, I said most), have never had to experience the losing side of their team. Do you honestly think that if the Wings were to suck for the next 10 years all these "loyal" fans would stick around? I highly doubt it. Some of you would, I will even go a far as to say that a lot of them would, but you would see a good deal of them lose interest.
My whole point is if you have never been on the losing side you dont have the right to call out a fanbase that has had to deal with what us Blackhawk fans have had to deal with for a LONG time. That is not a knock on Detroits fanbase, im simply saying that a lot of Wing fans just dont get how bad it has been for Chicago, because they have never had to deal with it. You should be thankful you have had such a great organization, that pretty much any team would kill to have.
I don't have a problem with 'bandwagon' fans the sense of fans who only take interest when the team is winning. Every organization in sports has those. I don't think you have to be a die-hard attending every game no matter how bad the team is to be a good fan. People have limited time and income, I don't expect people to spend what they have on a poor product.
For me, it's the attitude of some bandwagoners that gets to me. The attitude that brings them out in droves to Wings boards demanding respect. We didn't even play you in the playoffs. We were nothing more than an also-ran last season. Why are you here looking for validation? Why does everyone come to us to wave their victory banners, mock us for our failures? Does it really mean so much around the league for teams to be considered better than us? I guess we should take it as a compliment, but I just find it annoying. Let me ask you this; in 2008, how many Wings fans went out policing the Hawks boards for any percieved slights to our status?
Also, the sense of entitlement for some of these fans even though they haven't proven a willingness to pay their dues. I don't mean supporting a losing team. In many ways it's much easier to support a team with no expectations. You can't be disappointed. I mean supporting a good team that loses when you expect them to win.
You talk about how much success the Wings have had in recent memory, but that is a double-edged sword. With that success comes the expectation of more success. Since 1995, our seasons have had only two possible conclusions: Cup or Failure. We might have the most successful team over that span, but at the same time we have also endured the most failure. We are invested in our team to an extent I don't think you really understand. Probably half the leauge would be ecstatic just to make the playoffs this year. For us the prospect of missing the playoffs borders on tragic. A first round loss here is an embarassment. Last year in Phoenix it was an epic achievement, even though they had home ice and could easily have been considered the favorite. When Pittsburgh and Chicago lost to us, fans took it as a moral victory that they made it so far. When we lost to the Ducks and Pens in the same circumstances, they were profoundly disappointing failures. Even when we won the Cup most of the talk around the league centered around the rise of the Penguins.
You all come here playing the victim because we don't idolize every Cup winner, demanding respect that you haven't earned. Maybe it's just the 'instant success' factor; you haven't had a chance yet to take your lumps, but you are willing to. Pens fans probably would have said the same thing, but their bandwagon seemed to empty pretty quickly.
Come back when the Hawks are eliminated. Make excuses, whine about officiating and injuries and bad luck and all the other things you do when you're frustrated because your team let you down. Listen to fans around the league berate you for those excuses, tell you your reign is over. Fans around the league hate the Wings and us fans. Every team has the Wings games circled on their schedule almost like a rival or defending champ. League marketing is even sick of us, and always looking for the next big thing to replace us as headliners. That's what we Wings fans have been doing for over a decade.
You don't deserve the thrill of victory if defeat isn't agony. You haven't shown that yet. Even now you talk about the Hawks struggles like it doesn't bother you, like you expect nothing, like you could walk away from a second round loss with your head held high. Success is wonderful, and much appreciated, but also a reminder of the greater success we've failed to achieve. Your success still leaves you a lot closer to Nashville than it does to us, and you haven't yet demonstrated any emotional investment in your team. Yet you have the gall to step into enemey territory demanding equality in our justifiably biased discussions. Un-*******-believable.
Posted by Buppy on 18 December 2010 - 07:58 PM
Well, I can't produce links. My sources are "people in the know". I don't blame you for not believing me. That's the way it happened, I'm sorry. My source actually likes Chelios and was likely one of the fans cheering him last night. Even if he is only guilty of changing his mind about detroit its still treasonous and he knows it....
Errrr he knows what he did.
I'll say up front that I don't know the whole situation regarding Federov but you guys booed him and he was one of the greats...Just read an article quoting Federov as saying they were call him a "commie" I guess... he said something like: "don't they know the Cold War is over?" LOL
He didn't "simply leave the team". I can go on and on about why they booed him. And I have but people don't get it. I just don't see how the fans are classless for booing and again it wasn't nearly 100%. There are still many people who respect what he did and those people cheered, I assume. Just not fair that Redmond painted all Hawks fans with the same brush, but I understand cause I know he loved Chelios and won 2 cups with the wings.
He didn't 'do' anything other than 'simply leave the team'. There is nothing 'treasonous' about playing for a rival. There have been literally hundreds of players to do so in NHL history. But that's really beside the point. Like I said earlier, there is a time and place for it. During an honors ceremony commemorating past crontributions is not it.
Booing a former player when he's playing against you as a member of a rival team, like Fedorov, is fine. But if Fedorov were to be honored here, or we hold some celebration of the Cup wins he was a part of, I wouldn't expect him to get booed, and would think anyone doing so was disrespectful and classless. As Chelios said, let bygones be bygones.
You even said yourself that he shouldn't have been booed, so what exactly are you defending?
Do you really think anyone is suggesting that every single Hawks fan is classless? Mickey made a generalization about the Hawk fans in attendence. I think he even said something to the effect of 'not all of them' but it doesn't matter. It was a generalization, and many fans here are doing the same thing.
Have we as humans devolved into such PC ******* that we can't suffer hearing a generalization, even though everyone knows that generalizations are not, nor are even intended, to be taken as absolutes? We're criticizing Hawks fans as classless for booing Cheli. If you weren't booing him, it should go without saying that the criticism doesn't apply to you. Should we have provided a list of names of those we're referring to, so no precious innocent feelings are hurt? Grow af****** shell.
Chicago fans should be embarassed by that display. It was classless. That doesn't mean every single fan is classless.
Chicago fans should be proud of the fantastic parade and celebration following their Cup win. That doesn't mean every single fan was a model of good sportsmanship and grace in victory. Did you run around the internet telling everyone praising the Hawk fans then not to make generalizations?
Posted by Buppy on 18 December 2010 - 05:58 PM
First of all, no matter what the circumstances of his departure were, it's still classless to jeer a former player on a night you're supposed to be honoring them. It's a sports rivalry, not af****** holy war. (And at the time of the trade, and even now, it's barely a legit rivalry. Though I guess Chicago fans would have a different perspective.) Boo him as a player, fine. There's a time and place for it, but last night was not it. If you can't show some respect and appreciation, at least remain silent. If you can't even do that, you're an ass. End of story.
Alright Gnida is a maroon.
Hawks fans are not classless/disrespectful or whatever for booing him. There were half cheers and half boos any way. He knew he was going to get booed; he told his wife. And despite what you people think, he did in fact negotiate a trade to the red wings. After declaring his "hatred" for the wings. He's from Chicago. Hawks fans had every right to boo him. Just because a google search doesn't find any results for "chelios negotiated trade to detroit" doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. He, in fact, asked someone else in the organization to talk to Wirtz. That person refused and Chelios had to ask on his own. Chelios then had his agent come up with the deal to detroit. He said he hated detroit and is from Chicago(Evergreen Park actually, its just outside the far southwest side)then subsequently went there when he realized the team was going to s***. Sorry, that is betrayal of the highest form and he got what he deserved and he knew it was coming.
Secondly, unless you can actually produce some evidence no one is going to believe any nonsense about Chelios negotiating his own trade. I'm sure he wanted to go to a contender. At the time that meant Detroit, Colorado, New Jersey, or Dallas (and maybe St.Louis). I think I even remember Holland and Co. wanting to talk to him in person, to make sure he was willing to play here. But I've seen nothing to suggest he was guilty of anything more than changing his mind about never playing for Detroit. The unsubstantiated accusations sound even more petty and ridiculous than the jeering last night.
As for the picture, Chelios was a Wings player at the time the picture was taken, and the teams were actually playing later that night. Maybe it was a superstition thing.
And are Chicago fans really criticizing Chelios for taking the Cup to his hometown, like every other player does with their Cup day?
- esteef likes this
Posted by Buppy on 17 December 2010 - 12:10 AM
And there are times players are awarded assists without really doing anything to deserve them. There are times players deserve assists but don't get them. Hell, players can score goals without really doing anything. Hits, giveaways, and takeaways are all subjectively awarded.
As I said before, plus/minus is a worthless statistic. It can be affected positively or negatively without a player having any effect on the play.
Datsyuk wins the faceoff, passes to Zetterberg, Z shoots and scores. Homer, Lidstrom, and Stuart all get pluses also. Most of the opposing team's players wouldn't have had any chance to affect the play, yet they get a minus.
Tell me Crymson, what makes it such a wonderful stat when there's no way of telling how much effect a player actually has on it?
Stats only tell part of the story. So what. You still only bothered to mention the stats that worked in favor of your argument. Somehow I doubt you'd have left it out if he was a +9.
- Finnish Wing likes this
Posted by Buppy on 12 December 2010 - 01:05 AM
Everyone is getting all worked up but it is true. Does anyone here actually not think Ozzie is done? And he really did outplay Howard in Grand Rapids. Maybe he shouldn't have said it but what he said is true
Larsson was hot for his first 20 games or so in the AHL. Then he cooled off and never got back to that level in the next season and a half. Howard had better stats for the year (except W/L record) and started for GR in the playoffs.
Ozzie has been solid in 5 of 6 starts this year. He was good at the start of last year with a couple exceptions. Even after Howard took the starting job, Ozzie wasn't as bad as most think.
Larsson's a ******.
- Jenny likes this
Posted by Buppy on 02 December 2010 - 06:22 PM
My point was that it doesn't matter.
... The calendar we use is based on when the birth of Jesus is believed to have happened. There are years that happened before it, and years that have occurred since. As you clearly are not very intelligent, I will enlighten you. After 1 B.C. came 1 A.D., there was no "Year 0" which fell in between. The first decade A.D was 1 A.D to 10 A.D.
There was, it simply was not called as such. But for the purposes of our current calendar system, it matters.
Yes, a decade is a period of 10 years. But if we're basing them on numbered decades from our existing calendar, then it's 1991-200 and such. If we're simply basing it on the decade as a period of ten years, then why not divide it up starting with 1916-17 through 1925-26? If we're ignoring decade division from 1 A.D, then why not count starting with the inception of the league? That makes more sense than random division.
Even if you don't have a Year 0, calendars have been adjusted in the past. Who cares if the first decade had only 9 years, or the first millenium only 999? Does that matter any more than the fact some years in different parts of the world subtracted 10-13 days from the year when transitioning from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar? If there was an error in origin, it makes sense to correct it. In this case, it is almost certain that the basis for the AD numbering is incorrect, so what difference does it really make if we just say that a decade or century or millenium 'begins' on the more logical 0 year, if both are factually inaccurate? When Dionysius devised the AD numbering scheme in 525, he calculated that it was 525 years since the incarnation of Christ. Question is, did he mean that the beginning of 525 was 525 years after Christ was born, or that the end of that year would be 525 years. So even if you ignore the fact that his estimation was wrong, we still don't really know if he started at zero or one.
Secondly and more to the point, as I said earlier, when referencing a named decade, it is common practice to include those years with a common tens digit. The 90s = 90-99. Whether or not that is actually the 200th decade of the AD calendar is completely irrelevent.
[edit: decades did start at 0]
- dobbles likes this
Posted by Buppy on 25 November 2010 - 06:57 PM
The cap is calculated on a day by day basis. There's 96 days until the trade deadline. Hudler's daily hit is $15,457. That's $1,483,872 in cap space we could bank for later use. Assuming no other roster changes, that money plus the $618,280 for the last 40 days after the deadline would be worth the equivalent of $9.775M in yearly salary. More than three times the space we would have if we waited.
I have no idea where you get that idea from. If we trade him for someone his cap goes off the books whether it is today or at the deadline.
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