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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
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#2322525 Semin signs one year, $7m deal with Carolina

Posted by Buppy on 27 July 2012 - 03:47 PM

It's not panicking and oh no the sky is falling. It's our roster sucks, and what are you doing, Ken?, and hey it'd be nice to compete for the Cup this season but that's not happening which is stupid.

Too many high horses around here, if anything.

Our roster sucks but Semin makes us a contender?

Yeah, something is way too high...

#2321085 Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet: 14y/$110m ($56m 1st 4yrs)

Posted by Buppy on 22 July 2012 - 11:53 PM

Why would you need to use a personal attack?

Add Parise to that list as well. Since it was no secret that Suter was going wherever Parise went, you can add him to that list as well. So we have 4 players there, it seems the Wings have offers on the table for Doan and Semin and until the cards fall I will not say why they did or did not choose Detroit, but it seems Detroit as their destination is not a scale tipper for them anymore.

I find it difficult to avoid personal attacks because I get frustrated by people who I believe are unreasonable. I want to respond with rational debate, but I feel like it would be pointless.

Case in point: You say Suter and Parise did not want to play in Detroit. The truth is only that Detroit did not end up being their top choice. There's a big difference there. A player may want to play for multiple teams, but they can only choose one. Expecting everyone to want to play here more than they want to play anywhere else, and concluding that if they don't it means they didn't want to play here at all is irrational and unreasonable. I said as much in my previous reply and you still failed to grasp the concept. Hence why I feel rational debate is pointless.

There isn't any great organizational malfunction that needs to be addressed. No dereliction of duty. No flawed schemata. s*** does happen. We missed out on a couple free agents, s*** happens. It could be just a speed bump, or it could send us right off the track into a catastrophic crash. This is what is supposed to happen. This is how the system is designed. What goes up must come down. Since when is maintaining a top contender in perpetuity the new standard for adequacy in sports? What franchise, ever, in the history of any sport, has remained among the elite for nearly two decades without a single blemish?

Maybe it all isn't as easy as some think. Maybe things don't happen just because you want them to or because you can write them out on a message board and make them sound reasonable. Maybe when decisions are made, even those based on impeccable reasoning, they don't always work out. Maybe you give a solid effort but still fall short. Maybe sometimes those failures compound into situations that have no ready solution. Maybe speculating in hindsight on what might have been done better isn't the best way to evaluate performance. Maybe "consistently exceeding all reasonable expectations" shouldn't be what we expect from our management. Maybe a guy with such a sterling record deserves a little more respect. Maybe we can give a guy af****** break.

But I guess it makes us feel better to rant and finger-point. Have fun with it I guess. I'll continue trying to resist my more choleric urges.

#2321048 Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet: 14y/$110m ($56m 1st 4yrs)

Posted by Buppy on 22 July 2012 - 09:49 PM

Hardly, if that was the case I could close my eyes and grab a handful.

You act like he was just speculating about Weber's lack of interest. But the reports all indicate that Weber's camp said they weren't interested. At that point submitting a formal offer is basically pointless.

I suppose you could assume they were just lying about not not being interested, because I'm sure that happens in negotiations all the time. Then after they reject the first offer, you should assume it was an accident and send another. Then you assume they were just kidding around, then spilled coffee on it, then were playing hard to get, then needed to burn one for warmth, then wanted to make paper airplanes, then experimenting to see if they can re-combine all that paper back into a living tree... Hell, just fax him an offer every minute of every day. Send af****** parade of Korean bike messengers with confetti guns to rain tiny pink, blue, and yellow formal offer sheets all over Nashville. Due dilligence, you know.

Or you could just assume that no means no. Not like you would really be satisfied if we had submitted a formal offer and were rejected.

#2316921 Ken Holland, Post-Scotty Bowman

Posted by Buppy on 08 July 2012 - 02:04 AM

99-01, 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss...
03-07, 1st round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss, 3rd round loss...
Hawks 11-12, 1st round loss, 1st round loss...
Wings drafts from 95-97 (Scotty was director of player personnel), 27 players picked, 8 played at least 1 NHL game, combined total: 415gp, 17g, 47p

We were perfectly capable of some "poor" stretches even with Scotty.

It's a team game, and that goes for the front office as well. I'm sure Scotty was a positive factor, as many others in scouting and management are. All deserve thier fair share of credit, and all their fair share of blame (which IMO is none). You can't say "everyone else" deserves all the credit, but Kenny alone gets all the blame.

One thing all the Kenny bashers seem to be ignoring is the fact that what the Wings are going through now is exactly what the "parity rules" were purposely designed to cause. The draft, the cap, lowering the FA age, etc...all of that designed specifically to prevent teams from being as good as the Wings have been for as long as we have been. In Holland's tenure as GM, every single other team has missed the playoffs at least once. The Wings weren't the only good team in 98, nor were they head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. Colorado, New Jersey, Dallas...all have rebuilt (or are still trying to) since then. Other teams have come and gone.

In 08 we had Hank, Mule, Flip, Hudler, Sammy, Cleary, Stuart, and maybe more that I'm forgetting contributing at a level above thier cap hit. Then we had to start paying people. We lost some guys, and couldn't afford top FAs. When we got some cap space, long-term contracts and/or more competition for 27yo UFAs limited the players available.

Unless you're picking in the top of the first round, you can't expect recent draft picks to add anything. 25 players drafted in 2010 or 11 have played in the NHL. 17 were picked 14th or earlier. Of the other 8, only 3 have played more than 10 games. 3 out of 393. Even the 2009 class is mostly just starting to break in to NHL rosters. 49 of 197 picked 15th or later have played in the NHL, only 15 have played 40 or more games. Average contribution from the 49 so far is 37 games, ~3.8g, 11p. We also haven't had much contribution yet from the 06, 07, or 08 drafts, when Scotty was still here. And there's a lot more NHL regulars from those years now.

Much of our long-term success strategy has been reliance on veterans. That, and lacking top prospects, limit our trade options. A couple years with no cap space limited them further. This last year, when we had space and some assests we could trade, almost no one was on the market and prices for many that were rumored to be were apparently too high for anyone to pay, given the lack of trades.

In short, this is how it's supposed to work. If you think Scotty, or anyone else, would have made any real difference, you're not being reasonable.

#2315342 Matt Carle signs with Tampa Bay: 6-years, $33-million

Posted by Buppy on 04 July 2012 - 09:40 PM

From our perspective, when does a bit of overpayment stop being a reason not to sign someone? I mean, we have how much cap space?

We're pretty much there. My only hope is the overabundance of forwards we have (16 I think, if we re-sign Abdelkader). I'm hoping we can use the extra forwards as leverage in a trade for a decent d-man (i.e. Yandle).

Short-term overpayment would be ok, but not for 6-13 years...

If people are worried that we're not a playoff team right now, then with Carle we'd be at best a 7-8 seed. If we're a 7 or 8 now, then with Carle we're maybe a 5. And regardless, we may still need a full rebuild soon depending on how Pav and Hank continue to age. What Carle would bring is not worth making that commitment.

#2315215 The Next Move

Posted by Buppy on 04 July 2012 - 07:54 PM

"We've got all summer now," Holland said. "The market has been combed over pretty good. We'll explore trades. We're happy that we got the guys that we did on July 1 (F Mikael Samuelsson, F Jordin Tootoo, F Damien Brunner, G Jonas Gustavsson)."

Holland added: "Part of this might be that we might have to go with some kids that we think are ready."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitne...4#ixzz1zhRnGOSk

Right now I have the feeling that with Holland taking his "step back", he may miss out out on trying to sign Carle, or Carle will want more money than Holland is willing to spend for him after being turned away by Suter.

I don't think he'll trade for Yandle, or Nash for that matter, as both teams are well aware of what we currently have on roster, what we need and how badly we need it, and their prices will be way too high for Holland to pull the trigger on it.

And the last line concerns me where he appears to be.. I'll say "comfortable" going forward with what he have and with those in the minors....

Missing out on Carle wouldn't be too big a deal. A stop-gap like Hannan or Roszival might be better anyway if we can't swing a trade. Depends on how much Carle would take. $4M or less for 2-4 years? Probably not now that he's the "best" one left. And he's not good enough to make a big difference in how far we can go.

Regarding the bold: I see Kenny taking a lot of flak the last few years for expressing confidence in our players. It's like people see comments like that and completely forget what he's tried to do or the circumstances we've been in, and also ignore anything he says about considering other options. Seriously, what do you expect him to say? You think he should act like a fan and say, "This f'in sucks! We suck now and we won't make the playoffs ever again!!!1! Franzen's an A-hole!!one! I'm trading everyone!!?/! I'll trade Joe Louis for that Rocky statue!!! Next guy that walks through that door is getting a blank check just so we can say we did something!!exclamation point!"

The last few years, either because of the cap or lack of available players, our options have been very limited. Sucks that we haven't landed any of those few as of yet, but there's no reason for even fans to be as negative as they have been, much less for Kenny to be.

#2309517 Ken Holland

Posted by Buppy on 24 June 2012 - 03:28 PM

Well, if he lands Suter and Parise and we win the Cup, I think it will cement his legacy as a HoF GM. If he lands neither, and we miss the playoffs or exit early it will tarnish his image in the short term (unfairly), but long term he will still be remembered as one of the best.

Remember, he was also assistant GM for 3 years, and director of amatuer scouting for 7 before that. He played a significant role in building the team he "inherited". He's also made some big moves that people consider "failures" just because they didn't result in a Cup. Hossa, Hatcher, Clark/Samuelsson/Ranford, Cujo, Lang... He's also facing an uphill battle. We may need some big signing or trade, but that doesn't make doing it any easier. There's one real impact defenseman who might be available, and about 20 teams with the desire and ability to make a good offer for him. We have some assets to trade, but that doesn't mean any teams with the players we want will make those players available or be interested in what we can offer.

Fact is, if Red Wings fans judged other teams or GMs by the same standard Kenny has to live up to, they'd all be considered abject failures. We just lost the best defenseman of our generation, plus Stu, Rafi last year. Our stars are in their 30s. We haven't had any high draft picks during his tenure. We've dealt with the loss of stars and key roleplayers, like Konstantinov, Hasek, Yzerman, Hull, Fedorov, Robitaille, Shanahan, Chelios, Draper, Maltby, Osgood, Fischer, and more without needing to rebuild. And we are still talking about making moves to keep us a Cup contender rather than about rebuilding. That says alot more about Kenny than anything that might happen July 1st or afterward.

But if we don't make any big moves, and Kenny says, like last summer or the deadline, "We wanted to make some moves, but could find one that fit. But we like our team." everyone will just jump on the "we like our team" bit. As if all the best FAs offered to play here for free and every other GM offered to trade us their best players for our worst and Kenny turned them down. It's like half this board thinks the rest of the league has to get Kenny's permission before they can do anything, and the only reason we haven't done more already is because we didn't want to.

#2307704 If we fail to reload with top UFAs we should?

Posted by Buppy on 17 June 2012 - 11:44 AM

Sign Parenteau,Moen and one of Konopka/Prust,get both Wideman and Garrison and sign a backup goalie for cheap.

Not the best possible team on paper,but definitely much tougher and deeper than the last season roster

Wideman/Garrison in place of Nick/Stuie. Parenteau/Moen/Konopka or Prust in place of Hudler/Homer/two of Emmerton/Mursak/Miller/Eaves/Nyquist.

Tougher maybe, but certainly not deeper. If we had to settle for that, I'd be ok with it, but I think we'd need to look at our trade options. At least for help on defense.

#2307660 Why isn't the Wild in hot water for their owner's comments?

Posted by Buppy on 16 June 2012 - 07:01 PM

On the first page I quite clearly explained why I really don't care for this to be investigated. I think it's pretty stupid that team officials are not allowed to say that if a player were to make it to market, they would make a strong push for him. ...
Under the letter of the rules, you're right: this should be investigated and something should be done about it. I just don't like the rules. I was going to respond to the rest of your post, but I don't think it'll be very productive for either one of us, so I'll leave it at that.

Not every player is Parise, and you can't have different rules for different players. If Parise, or anyone else, wants to know what other teams are willing to offer, then all he has to do is wait until the 1st and find out. While Parise specifically may know he'll have no shortage of offers, there are a lot of players who don't have that security. They have to choose between the security of getting a contract before there's extra competition from UFAs and possibly getting more money or a better opportunity on the open market.

In my opinion, "we will not be outbid" is basically the same as throwing out a specific number. Worse even, since a specific number could be lower than what someone else offers. Now Parise knows he should talk to Minnesota after any offer, and he can use those comments to push for a higher salary from anyone who makes an offer. Things can move fast on UFA day. If the Wings want to be aggressive, they won't necessarily want to wait around while Parise gets a counter-offer from the Wild. Doing so could mean they miss out on other players.

Would it have made any difference had the story not been released? Likely no one will ever know. But it's pretty simple rule: Don't talk about players under contract to other teams. It's not hard. And there's no reason for it other than to give yourself an advantage over all the teams who follow the rules.

This is how the world continues to get worse. Just keep letting people get away with whatever they want.

It confounds me how much people are defeated about things that can be fixed. You know every single rape case is hearsay. Might as well not try with those. ...

I agree with you in principle, but comparing this to rape makes you sound a little hysterical.

I don't give a s*** if someone jaywalks. Doesn't mean I'm indifferent to every crime. Some things just aren't worth getting worked up over. This specific case, where the potential damage caused is likely somewhere between none and very little, and the potential for actually proving any wrongdoing is virtually nil, is I think one of those things. Certainly not worth the time and expense of a court proceeding. I don't think it would warrant anything more than a fine anyway, even if it was proven (as much as I would like to see Minnesota prohibited from signing Parise, I don't feel that would be justified).

#2307553 Why isn't the Wild in hot water for their owner's comments?

Posted by Buppy on 15 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

NHL By-law 15.1 C

The making or causing to be made, through any medium, public or private, any statement indicating any intention or desire of or interest in acquiring the services of any person referred to in (a) [players] or (b) [other contracted team employees, ie: coach, GM...] hereof, except when such statement is communicated to the Member Club entitled to such services in a confidential manner or is made during a period when such person remains on a Free Agent List in accordance with Section 9A.5, may, at the discretion of the Commissioner, be deemed to be a contravention of this By-Law.

If the comments reported were actually made by Leipold, then Bettman could decide it's tampering.

While we all know the needs and cap space of different teams, and can assume who they'll be interested in, saying you'll match/beat any offer goes a lot farther. Too far, IMO. Main problem is there isn't likely any way to prove he really said it, unless he was dumb enough to mention Parise's name on tape/email/etc.

#2306959 Is the Stanley Cup really the hardest trophy in all of pro sport?

Posted by Buppy on 12 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

... there are only certain positions on any football team that actually play more than a couple of plays the entire game.

Yeah: QB, OL, RB, WR, TE, DL, LB, DB... hardly anyone.

Football is really probably the toughest. Takes even more good players to build a championship football team, only 6 of 32 teams make the playoffs, and then one poor game (or even a poor half/quarter/series) could end your season. Maybe easier for an underdog team to ride a hot streak to a title, but I think harder overall.

NHL though is certainly the biggest "grind", and likely the most physically demanding.

#2306850 Off -Season Game Plan:Detroit Red Wings

Posted by Buppy on 11 June 2012 - 11:37 PM

You are seriously misinformed. First of all, this was reported by a MAN as a direct quote from the owner of the Minnesota Wild. I trust that he knows how much they will spend since it's his money. ...

I'd be surprised if that was really a quote from anyone in the Minnesota organization. That would be tampering and could result in Minnesota actually being prohibited from signing Parise, as well as forfeiting draft picks and/or a fine up to $5M.

In fact, if I was a GM right now, I'd already be writing up a complaint to the league, just to force someone from Minnesota to come out and deny they ever said it.

And regardless what you think of Detroit's future, they do have nearly two decades history of icing a competetive team. Minnesota has 11 years of nothing, showing they don't really know how to build or maintain a team. And every ranking I've seen has the Wings' prospect pool rated higher than the Wild's. Granlund may be a "can't miss", but it seems they don't have much beyond him. Players like Parise and Suter aren't going to look for a team that will win for them. They know they will be key players in the plans of any team. Add them to the Wings and it solves most of the issues you think the Wings have.

I know if I was Parise and worried about the future, I'd take a team that may, if our prospects don't work out, have to rebuild over a team that is already worse and in 10+ years still hasn't actually built anything in the first place. He goes to Minnesota he'll likely be traded in two years when they start their re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-build.

#2306680 Message to Ken Holland...

Posted by Buppy on 11 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

The Preds have $38M in cap space, a handful of decent roleplayers already signed for cheap, and a few more that should be cheap to re-sign. They are prefectly capable of paying Weber $10M+ and still filling out a decent roster in the $55-60M range. You're not going to hurt them by forcing them to pay a little more than they want.

Giving up 4 firsts isn't just giving up 4 players we could protentially draft. It's also giving up the ability to trade those picks in the future. Between that and needing to significantly overpay to get him, you sacrifice a lot of flexibility. If he didn't mesh well with our system, or other holes in the lineup appear, we could still end up out of the playoffs...possibly giving up one or more top-10 picks. Maybe not likely, but it's a big risk to take for the right to overpay someone.

I'll say again, the RFA system is designed to very heaviliy favor the team owning the RFA rights. It gives a little bargaining power to the player, but little risk of the team losing its young assets. Offer sheets are very, very rarely worth making. It would have to be a team unable to match a fair offer or a player that the owning team isn't interested in keeping.

#2305744 Why Evander Kane is Worth the Price

Posted by Buppy on 07 June 2012 - 01:33 AM

Evander Kane is worth the cost! He won't cost us more than $5 million per year, first round and third round picks.


1. At $5 million, the compensation is a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd.

2. He is worth $5M, which is all the more reason Winnipeg would match. Hell, they might send us a card to thank us for not making them match $6M.

I'd trade a decent amount for his rights, but I wouldn't bother with an offer sheet. The RFA system very heavily favors the team owning a players rights (obviously, that's what it's supposed to do). Unless the team is very tight to the cap and/or isn't interested in the player it isn't worth it. Maybe if I had a crystal ball and knew for sure he'd be the next Shanny/Iginla...

#2305053 Nice Khan article previewing the off-season

Posted by Buppy on 03 June 2012 - 09:19 PM

This is the doomsday scenario that Holland has seemed to never planned for. The writing has been on the wall for the last 4 seasons that Lidstrom would be gone, and it's become painfully obvious none of Kindl, Kronwall, or Ericsson were going to be the next top D-man they were thought to be. In the mean time Detroit has also been deficient in the natural goal scorer area. Holland took a chance on Franzen, but he seems to have chosen wrong and Franzen has been nowhere near what hes been before his contract. Now Detroit has been bounced early in the playoffs, the holes in the line up are mounting and players like Carle and Widemann/Semin and Doan will not fill the holes to make this team as competitive that a team needs to be to be real contenders.

The point of this is that Holland could have done a better job of transitioning the team so that they wouldn't be dependent on getting two top tier players thought FA in one offseason to stay where they have been the last 20 years.

What exactly could have been done better? We still have a good team, a ton of cap space, and a pretty good prospect pool. What realistic moves could we have made to put us in a better position?

Filling the void left by Nick was always going to be a huge problem. Nothing we could have done, except maybe tank a few seasons to stock up on lottery picks, would have changed that. It's not like there have been a bunch of future-HoF defensemen that we passed on as UFAs. At least now we have the cap space to offer Suter top dollar, with enough left over for other improvements.

We are not at all "dependent" on signing Parise. We may not have a top sniper, but we still have a top offense. Only 3 teams scored significantly more than the Wings this season. Even if we miss out on Parise and get someone like Jones instead, or even just re-sign Hudler and promote Nyquist, we should still be a very good offense. Figure out how to get the PP working again and "very good" becomes "elite".

The good news is we actually have the cap space to go aggressively after several of the best UFA options. And we do have a few tradeable assets if we miss out there. Realistically, for being as good as we have been for this long and still having any chance at all of still being an elite team next year speaks volumes about just how well Kenny has been preparing for this moment.