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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 07:12 PM

#2044524 Wisniewski makes obscene gesture towards Avery

Posted by Buppy on 11 October 2010 - 11:39 PM

I don't really want to make this any more political, and for the most part I agree that the NHL shouldn't be suspending people for gestures, but in this case I wouldn't mind.

If I were to make a similar gesture at my work, I'd be fired on the spot. The same is probably true for anyone who works in an even semi-professional atmosphere. He'd for sure be suspended if he called someone a ****** or made any other racist remark, and this is really no different. I understand it was a joke but it's also hateful at its core. Consider that the city of New York just recently saw three men tortured and beaten for essentially the same homophobic sentiment. Pretty sad that in this day insinuating that someone is *** is still considered an insult.

I guess I'd still say the NHL shouldn't suspend him, but the Islanders should.

[Case in point. The N-word is apparently considered so offensive it has to be auto-censored on an internet forum. But you all think ***-bashing is appropriate for live TV.]

#2043847 Merchandise ?

Posted by Buppy on 10 October 2010 - 01:57 PM

Hockeytown Authentics in Troy. Badass store.

Kind of a long drive from California though... :P

#2041880 10/8 GDT: Ducks 0 at Red Wings 4

Posted by Buppy on 08 October 2010 - 08:29 AM

I was doing fine for the 5 months since the last meaningful Wings game, why does it now seem like 7:30 will never get here?

Is it too late to petition the league for a matinee start?

#2041802 Hawks vs. Avs GDT

Posted by Buppy on 08 October 2010 - 01:07 AM

Wings fans celebrating an Avs win. I guess the Mayans were a couple years off. :P

#2040184 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by Buppy on 03 October 2010 - 07:02 PM

I stopped reading after this line because you clearly haven't read any of my posts or are intentionally ignoring any of the points I've made several times in this thread.

So there's really no reason to bother reading yours as I'm guessing you're refuting the fictional argument you've invented for me.


I'm not gonna argue that you need an enforcer to win a Cup, but your reasoning doesn't prove anything. Because in your opinion the Wings had a team capable of winning the Cup and they didn't have an enforcer, that somehow proves that you don't need an enforcer to win the Cup??

They didn't win the cup, so it proves nothing. It's all just speculation on your part.

So you're not saying an enforcer is needed, but you're saying it hasn't been proven that an enforcer is not needed either. What's the point of that argument other than maintaining of the possibility that enforcers are needed.

One or the other is true, either you need an enforcer or you don't. If you don't beleive an enforcer IS needed, you have to believe that an enforcer is NOT needed.

But for some reason you're just not willing to commit to either answer, or at least, not willing to say the words. Instead you just pussyfoot around it, saying 'well, we don't need one, but we haven't won without one so maybe we do'. If you want to argue just that having an enforcer can be valuable, just do that. You countered my specific point asserting that enforcers are not needed. Why do that if you agree with it?

#2040153 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by Buppy on 03 October 2010 - 06:19 PM

Abby wiLl never be anything more than a grinder. He'll never be an enforcer. That's just silly.

Of course he isn't. But if we happen to win the Cup just watch the revisionist history. This will somehow become a tough team.

The 97 and 98 Cup teams were soft compared to the rest of the league. There were debates exactly like this back then. Kocur was too old. McCarty wasn't a real heavyweight. We never should have gotten rid of Probert or Grimson. Lapointe and Primeau didn't fight enough, etc. But from the talk about them now you'd think it was one of the toughest teams in NHL history. People talk like McCarty was a fearsome enforcer in 02. The 08 team had the mighty Drake who apparently won us the Cup all by himself.

The Wings are a soft team. We've been a soft team for years and years, and we've won despite that.

I'm not gonna argue that you need an enforcer to win a Cup, but your reasoning doesn't prove anything. Because in your opinion the Wings had a team capable of winning the Cup and they didn't have an enforcer, that somehow proves that you don't need an enforcer to win the Cup??

They didn't win the cup, so it proves nothing. It's all just speculation on your part.


Last season the Wings had 19 fights. 10 of which were from Brad May. If Holland knows what he's doing and apparently doesn't believe in enforcers, it's odd how he keeps trying to add guys like May and Downey to the lineup.

And as I said before, it's ridiculous to measure adding an enforcer against whether that one element will win us the Cup. Hockey is obviously a more complex game than that. And this is pretty much the only debate that the standard for adding that kind of player is there has to be definitive proof it will lead the Wings to the Cup. It's absurd.

You are saying we need an enforcer to win the Cup. And that is your only argument. You say we need one, I say we don't. I think it's hilarious that you all are so terrified to admit even the possibility that a team can win without an enforcer. I bet you were all relieved when we lost in 09.

And that's the difference. I have no problem admitting that having an enforcer can have its usefulness. I'm just not going say it's an absolute necessity. It isn't. Games are won on the scoreboard. Fighting may help, but it is far from the only way to score or prevent goals. Simple kindergarten logic tells you then that it is absolutely possible to win without fighting. But you all act like making that simple concession would be like admitting that fighting has no value.

As for Holland, let's see what he's really done. He had McCarty when he became GM. McCarty happened to also be a pretty good hockey player. Always a regular in the lineup. Maybe if Holland didn't have that luxury he would have signed someone else. Or maybe not.

McCarty left after the lockout. We didn't carry an enforcer in 05-06. Didn't carry one in 06-07 either. 07-08 we added Downey. 08-09 we had nothing. Downey and McCarty spent the majority of the year in GR. 09-10 we added May, but he was originally signed to play in GR, but got a spot due to injuries. Once the team got healthy, he was waived and sent back to GR. That year we were also jammed against the cap and could only afford a minimum wage player. Thus far this season we have no one.

So, 4 of 6 years with no enforcer, 1 with an enforcer for half the year only because of injuries, and 1 year with an enforcer as the 13th forward, who wasn't taking a spot from anyone better. Yeah, Holland really gives that role a high priority.

We already have a full roster. Too many players in fact. We don't have any room for an enforcer. We don't need an enforcer. An enforcer won't put us over any edge. We have one of the best teams in the league, and we are capable of winning the Cup. With no enforcer. Come back next season when we have a couple spots open.

#2039690 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by Buppy on 02 October 2010 - 09:57 PM

Well I think the wings have proven they can win without an enforcer is an absurd statement because they never actually have. EVER. but anti enforcer people love to say it when its not true. I never said that they can't win a cup without one but its just fact that they never have so you can't really use that argument.

And its different then saying that Maltby thing because Maltby is a person but an enforcer is a role on the team. I don't think we would've won those 4 cups without players like Maltby because he used to be physical, ******* that filled an important role on the team.

If you really think Downey or McCarty were the difference between 2008 and 2009 you are certifiably insane.

While the team has almost always had someone capable of fighting, the majority of our teams have featured no one better than McCarty, who wasn't scaring anyone even in his prime. And again, consistently at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors every year for the duration of our current reign as perennial contenders, and over that time posting more Cups, more wins, more points, more playoff wins, and more playoff series wins than any other team in the league. I haven't actually added it up, but I'll bet we have the fewest fights over that time period.

But if you really want to believe that the 10-20 fights we usually have in a year have been the lynch pin of our success, I guess no one can help you.

#2038604 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by Buppy on 30 September 2010 - 05:06 PM

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league.

Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were.

People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters.

This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year.

The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have.

It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

#2037372 Do the wings have new jerseys this season?

Posted by Buppy on 26 September 2010 - 11:13 PM

This thread signals the beginning of the Wings season to me. Now get to bickering about goalies and who is lazy and sucks. :hehe:

The pre-season nameplate designer is lazy and sucks.

#2032694 #DanEllisProblems

Posted by Buppy on 12 September 2010 - 07:54 AM

...but I do have to say he has a bit of a point, especially after reading a thing on KK that pointed out some realities about the situation. The thing that sticks out most in my mind from the article is that these guys are only playing until they're 40, and most of them didn't go to college, so it's not like they can actually SPEND $1 mil a year because they need to be saving for 35-50 years of retirement. Obviously Ellis couldn't explain this on Twitter, and I have no idea why he decided to try, but I do understand a little bit about where he's coming from even though he ticked me off supremely.

I left out a ton of stuff from the article, so here's the link:

Not much of a point.

Consider the fact that Ellis has in just the last two years made more money than ~90% of Americans will make in their lifetime. Consider that at age 45, assuming he is credited for 160 games played, he'll get a pension of $45,000/year or more. Consider that retiring from hockey doesn't mean he is unable to work at all. Consider that his high income now gives him extraordinary investment opportunities. He really doesn't have anything to complain about.

I too can understand being upset about losing 18% (or whatever it was) of your expected income. Only natural. But he should also be grateful enough about what he does make to not worry about it. And he damn sure shouldn't be whining about it on the internet. That was just downright stupid. Lol.

#2032530 NHL preparing for work stoppage with refs

Posted by Buppy on 11 September 2010 - 01:51 AM

Yeah, unfortunately, nothing is better than NHL refs. And I mean that literally. "Nothing" would be pretty big improvement over NHL refs. :ph34r:

#2030318 NHL Rejects Kovalchuk's Contract

Posted by Buppy on 31 August 2010 - 01:00 AM

Cap hit of $6.66 million.....on the Devils?!?!

Obviously, they thought they were offering the deal to Miroslav Satan.

#2029153 A Long Time Ago...

Posted by Buppy on 25 August 2010 - 01:42 PM

What about Lando?

Obviously Grant Fuhr, since back in the 80s he was the only black guy ever seen in the galaxy.

#2028783 NHL back in Québec city

Posted by Buppy on 23 August 2010 - 11:20 PM

Do people not understand that you have to have an owner and that it's not a matter of "ok, let's have a team here, here, and here"

The Nordiques were moved because they were sold to owners who wanted to move them to Denver. No amount of petitioning will change that.

Who cares? They'll apparently e-mail you a t-shirt. Crazy Quebecois.

#2028302 Penguins sign Arron Asham

Posted by Buppy on 22 August 2010 - 05:07 PM

I'm not acting like I'm being repressed. There's actually been some good conversations going on in here, like between GMR and mindfly.

Speaking only for myself, sure it would've been nice to pick up Asham for 700k. But I'm not saying he's getting the Wings to the Cup or it's an either or situation with Modano. It's all the people jumping into the thread who've made it that. There's a pretty large gap between saying you'd want a player on the team and that player would make the difference in winning the Cup.

But that's a common argument for shooting it down. "xxxx player is not going to be the difference to get the Wings to the Cup."

And the prevailing argument has also become "do you know more than Holland?" Of course none of us know more about running a franchise than Holland. But it's about being a fan of the team. Analyzing and overanalyzing every move and throwing our two cents in. That's why this forum exists.

The Draper thing was really an aside which has derailed this thread even more. As I said, I'm a big Draper fan, but Holland was overly optimistic about his contributions to the team when he signed that contract. Or maybe he didn't have enough faith in kids like Helm to replace him.

Really? Prevailing argument? Heaten used that argument once, and you've been harping on it ever since. Mostly, it's been a discussion on the relative merits of Modano and Asham, scoring and grit/fighting. You now seem intent on proving that Holland can make mistakes, as if that proves that this particular move (or non-move in this case) is a mistake.

Now unfortunately, this seems to be devolving into just another enforcer debate. Oh well.