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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
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#1995350 NHL.com Newest mock draft

Posted by Buppy on 06 June 2010 - 04:30 PM

How is it decided then? I thought it was 1-15 (the teams who didnt make the playoffs) 16-30 (the team that exit the playoffs first picks at 16, the 2nd team that exits pick 17th etc) ?

I believe it works like this:

SC winner = 30
Runner-up = 29
Conference runners-up = 27 & 28
Then any remaining division winners take the next 2-6 picks
After that, it goes in order by points, with the lottery winner moving up 4 spots max.

Wings had the 7th most points, putting them in the 24th spot. But Philly, Montreal (conference finalists), and Buffalo (division winner) all move behind us, putting us in 21st.

#1995342 Bertuzzi states he will either stay with wings or retire

Posted by Buppy on 06 June 2010 - 04:01 PM

...and Filppula has always "been on the verge".

This was only Filppula's 4th full season. He did show considerable improvement in his 2nd. That improvement, and a nice contract, led a lot of fans to think he was somehow supposed to turn into an all-star while playing on the third line with almost no PP time the next year. So, even though he did improve that year, some people just looked at the lack of goals and thought of it as a disappointment. Failing to meet unrealistic fan expectations doesn't make him a disappointment.

This last year was the first time Flip was really expected to step up. Then he got stuck on the third line again to start the year, and had a significant injury. Despite that his play did improve considerably. He was easily our third best forward in the playoffs.

Both Filppula and Cleary are overpaid by 40% for what they have brought to the table the past 2 seasons. Hell Homer deserves more than either one of them, and don't give me any s*** about them being injured, Homer takes more of a beating than both of them put together.

There's more to the game than scoring. Homer scores a little more, but doesn't do any of the other things as well. Then Homer has to take a discount due to his age. Fair or not, his age is an additional risk factor that has to be considered when valuing a contract. If Homer was 27 or 30, he almost certainly would be paid more than Flip or Cleary.

#1994911 Which Rookie has the best chance at cracking the line-up next season?.

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2010 - 04:12 PM

Two Red Wings since the 98-99 season have started their NHL careers before the age of 20. Jiri Fischer in 98-99 at 19, who was on path to become a star defenseman, and Jiri Hudler in 2003-04 at 19, who is a top-line scoring forward just entering his prime. The last player to start his career before the age of 20 with the Wings? Martin Lapointe in 91-92. Prior to Lapointe? Keith Primeau in 90-91.

The "Bowman age" which began in 92-93 changed that a bit, as did the fact that starting in the early 90s first rounders were not necessarily guys who could step right on to the roster and contribute because the Wings picked so late most years. So a guy who can make the team under the age of 20 on a Wings team with solid depth at most positions is absolutely astounding.

Going a little far to say Happy 'made the team' as a 19 year old. He played 12 games as an injury replacement. Then 4 games the next year (technically two years later with the lockout). He didn't really make the team until '06-07. Helm being a playoff regular at 21 is more impressive.

#1994859 Bertuzzi states he will either stay with wings or retire

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

.... Oh, and weren't the last like 3 years supposed to be "step-up seasons" for Filppula and Cleary? ;)

Not really. For Flip, only this last year really was, and that was derailed a bit by his injury. And he still improved.

For Cleary, I think we were happy with him as a 20 goal/40 point guy who could play in any situation. Then his goals dropped a bit, and we were hoping he'd do better this year to help replace some of the lost offense. He was baged up for most of the season, and with all the other injuries, I don't think he was too bad.

It's a lot more possible when you stop trying to run 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines. That's basically what we had last year, and the grit was spread too thin over the bottom 2 lines and neither was of any consequence. One or two guys in the lineup who are more geared to scoring would be all it takes to set up three dedicated scoring lines, that brings back the offensive depth and helps run the opposing team's D-Corp more ragged.

It can be done, and I say it should be done.


Well, let's look at it this way. Williams was brought in for $1.5 Million. He got 15 points in 44 games and was invisible in the playoffs so we won't worry about that. Just glancing through some of the free agent RW's heading to market soon, right away I find (don't groan) Maxim Afinogenov, who in comparison to Williams, played last year at $800K and played all season without serious injury and got 61 points. Now obviously after a season like that, he's going to get a raise -- and apparently an offer from Atlanta is already on the table for him to come back -- but even supposing he goes up to Williams' $1.5 Million, I'll take him over Jason 8 days out of 7! You throw him on the 1st/2nd line, maybe as redwingfan19 suggested you move Bert down to the third line to add more shifty offense, and with one move you're looking at a much scarier set of three lines.

We tried to have 3 scoring lines this past year. Then we got hit by the inuries. It's not like we started the season with a 4th line of May-Miller-Maltby.

What our attempt at 3 scoring lines got us Bert and Cleary on the 2nd line, Williams and a woefully underperforming Leino on the 3rd. Had Willy and Flip not gotten hurt, that third line might have broekn through and started scoring (they were playing well, just not finishing), but the 2nd line would have still been weak.

3 scoring lines in the cap era means you have to have some players performing well over their contracts. For that, you have to be lucky in FA or the draft. Not something you can really plan on.

Afinogenov was a $3m player, had a couple bad years, a lot of injury problem, and some questions about his work ethic. No one wanted to take a chance on him. Atlanta did and it paid off. We could offer him $1.5 and he'd most likely laugh at us. He will probably get back close to $3. Prospal was another guy no one seemed to want that turned into a bargain. You might even put Bert in that group.

We could try the same thing this year with Bert, and/or maybe someone like Tanguay or Chris Higgins, but you have to realize there's just as much chance for moves like that to turn out the way Williams did.

I'd rather bring in someone like Nystrom or Asham that are more sure bets, and hopefully save some room for the deadline.

#1994844 Bertuzzi states he will either stay with wings or retire

Posted by Buppy on 05 June 2010 - 01:16 PM

...In other news, how in God's name is Alligator due for a raise? The guy led (and still does) the playoffs in penalty minutes, is a minus player, and contributed a measly 6 points. I never understood the love for this guy. Oh, I'm sorry, he "sometimes tries to hit things". We might as well have kept Downey then and gave him a raise....at least Downey freakin fought. Man o man I scratch my head at this stuff sometimes. ...

I'm fairly sure that under the terms of the CBA, he's due a small increase up to roughly 890k. Hopefully that would be the extent of it, for now.

Automatic raises are for qualifying offers, but we could sign him for less if he agreed to it. Also, I believe the raise is based off actual salary from the last year ($710k in this case). That would mean a 5% raise to ~$745.

That said, he's a good young player that should develop into a solid 3rd liner. Good defensively, decent offensive potential, pretty good size, not slow, likes to hit, will drop the gloves on occasion. (Funny that you complain about his penalties, then praise Downey for fighting. 26 of Abby's penalty minutes were either fights or scrums sticking up for teammates. Only one of those penalties resulted in an opposing PP. And that was late in a game we were losing 5-1.)

$900k-1M would be a good price for him.

#1994166 Yzerman also wanting Pat Verbeek

Posted by Buppy on 04 June 2010 - 06:52 AM

You mean the exact thing I already said? My issue is with people who have the Stevie Yzerman of today confused with the Steve Yzerman of 5 years ago... I really don't see how your sarcasm applies to me. I'm the one saying that Stevie is thinking of Tampa first.

The Wings don't owe Tampa GM Yzerman anything.

If he's going to play hardball and try to poach from the Wings they shouldn't treat him any different than any other hostile executive.

My whole point was that these tactics are hostile business tactics-- there's no possible way to deny it. I hope Holland gives no quarter.

And for the record I'm assuming scouts and capologists have contracts since Holland, Nill and the rest of the upper management is signed to fixed term contracts.

No, they don't owe Yzerman anything. But they do owe current employees the courtesy of allowing them to get better jobs. We have no right to hold people back. Contracts or no, refusing to allow our people to pursue better opportunities would be a '******' move, and would likely ensure that those people left when their contracts (if they have them) are up anyway.

You're the one getting hung up on it being Yzerman. It's no more 'hostile' a tactic than it was for Vinik to offer Yzerman the GM position in the first place. Were you bitching about that? Were you bitching when the Sharks 'poached' Mclellen? This is no different. We're not doing Yzerman a favor, we're showing some respect for our current employees, as any decent organization would.

#1994092 What are the Pros and Cons of next season?

Posted by Buppy on 03 June 2010 - 10:35 PM

I have been flirting with this topic all year round. We just look washed up, I'd hate to say it but we do. It's hard to be optimistic.

So what we get a greedy, tiny player easy to push off the puck...? woopety doo.

Truth is:
Lidstrom is good, but isn't getting any younger and has shown wear.
Rafalski's game is fading and isn't worth his pay.
If Zetterberg puts up numbers again like last year, between his injuries and lack of desire I'd say trade him... sorry fanboys
If Franzen has anymore concussions the smart move would to be trade damaged goods while you still have value.
Howard Choked in the playoffs, good games sure. He also had some bad one's, too inconsistent.
Too much dead weight on the roster from loyalty (Draper, Maltby, Osgood)
Kronwall has been lackluster the last two years, and is injury prone.
Don't even get me started on this one; DAN CLEARY DOESN'T DESERVE HIS CONTRACT I'm sure he'll be out another 50 games with some type of injury next season, get him to waive his NTC and ship him out please.
Lebda must go
Meech must go
We're too old and slowing down

This team will not go far next year, IF they make the playoffs honestly... They look alot like the Pistons do right now, great for years but dynasty came to an end.. the salary cap is causing this.

With a management philosophy like that you'd be overhauling the roster every year. Great way to suck, but much less effective as a way to build a Cup team.

Yes, Nick and Rafi are getting older. That happens. Trade core players, both of whom have friendly cap hits, and both of whom have a history of strong playoff performance? Give up on a Calder nominee after a somewhat poor playoff in his first time? Get rid of his hall of fame caliber mentor (who has one year left on a rather cheap contract)? Kronwall too would be tough to replace at his money. Cleary is one of our more versatile players, had a great playoff a couple years ago. I'm not in love with his contract, but it's not that bad either. He can still be a very valuable player. His injury problems haven't been near as bad as you suggest.

How would you propose replacing those guys?

Matby and Lebda are all but gone already. Draper only has a year left and won't likely be back afterward. Meech could likely be gone. None of those are really important moves (individually at least), nor do they represent enough money to really make a difference. They're minor roster tweaks that are already happening, not sure what you're complaining about.

I guess I understand your point, and agree to some extent. Our years of success combined with the salary cap are taking a toll. But I hardly think the situation is as grim as you seem to suggest. Not much to be excited about this year, but we won't be a bad team. Maybe not a top contender, but really any team in the playoffs has a chance if they get hot at the right time. And we still have great management and a solid core for at least a few more years. No reason to think it will be impossible to solve the problems we'll encounter.

#1992837 Lidstrom Signs 1-Year Contract Extension

Posted by Buppy on 01 June 2010 - 10:37 PM


And how many millions of dollars do you think the Wings have made off of Lidstrom in his career?

This deal was made in the real world, one apparently a lot of people here don't live in. If Nick is going to split up his family, and play another grueling year where he could get injured (like getting speared in the balls, for example), he should be compensated at or near market value for that.

Boof****** hoo that he didn't play for millions of dollars less than he's worth. That's not his job. His job is to play defense, and he's proven himself to be pretty f-ing good at it.

There are a lot of teams in the league who would've fallen all over themselves to get a 40 year old Lidstrom in their lineup. They probably have already worked out the math on how many more wins that'd get 'em in a season.

And it's not our job to nominate the guy for sainthood because he's a good hockey player.

Here's the bottom line. Nick certainly had a lot of influence in determining his salary. He could have hurt the team by asking for more, he could have helped us improve by taking less. No matter what he decided, it wouldn't likely have much (if any) impact on his long term financial security. What he chose to do was pretty much the minimum needed in order to essentially stay the same.

That disappoints me. I had hoped he was better than that. I don't hate him, or think he's a greedy prick. I'm still happy he came back and I'll still miss him when he does finally retire. I still appreciate everything he's done in the past. I realize he'll likely still be one of the premier defensemen in the league this year. I'm not asking anyone else to dislike him, nor suggesting we shouldn't retire his number when he's done. I know he wasn't obligated to take a huge discount. I know he had every right to take what he did.

But he could have done more for the team; it wouldn't have hurt him any to do it; and he chose not to. I have every right to be disappointed by that.

#1991778 Steve Yzerman named TB's new GM

Posted by Buppy on 31 May 2010 - 01:05 PM

I did not say he was liability or bad defensively. Just that he became elite defensive player when he was no longer offensive star.

Scoring nearly a point a game in the late 90s/early 00s definitely still qualifies as 'star' caliber. He was 10th in the league in scoring the year he won the Selke.

He might not have been Sakic/Forsberg/Jagr level, but he was still a top-end forward in the league.

#1991367 Cap could go up by 2 million

Posted by Buppy on 30 May 2010 - 01:41 AM

Yzerman was still one of the Wings' 3 or 4 best forwards his last couple seasons. Taking a big pay cut is not a requirement, but it sure as hell helps the team win. Yzerman was willing to cut his salary big time in the summer of 2001, even though he was a point-per-game Selke candidate who had been named a first-team all-star only a year prior having just put out a comparable performance that year.

Yzerman scored 52 points in 52 games in 2000-01 and despite mising 30 games still finished 5th in Selke voting; which is remarkable because playes who miss large chunks of games typically don't get votes for awards. Had he played the full season, he would likely have won the Selke for the second year in a row, and would likely have taken all-star team votes from the centers who didn't get named to the all-star team, including such players as Sykora, Fedorov, Primeau, and Straka (who played left wing for Robert Lang and Alexei Kovalev that season, but that's for another episode.) While less likely, he might have taken all-star votes from Art Ross winner Joe Sakic, who was among the Selke leaders as well, or Mario Lemieux, who scored 76 points in 43 games and was named to the second team by a fairly hefty margin. Assuming Yzerman didn't take any votes from Sakic or Lemieux, he would have had to collect at least 26 of the remaining 31 second place votes awarded to everyone else. So while he probably doesn't make the all-star team that year, he still gets recognition as having had a damn good season.

The next season he posted similar offensive numbers, but was not given the same grace in Selke voting. He would have been among the top centers in scoring and would likely have been among the top Selke vote getters as well. He would have been only a mere 4 points behind the top center in points, Mats Sundin, giving him an excellent shot at a first or second team selection that season as well.

2002-03 was where it really went downhill. Yzerman underwent reconstructive surgery for his knee, having injured it repeatedly throughout his career, and it being the reason he was often missing chunks of games in recent seasons. Yzerman missed the first 66 games of the season, scoring 8 points over the final 16. During the playoffs, Yzerman was struck in the face by a deflected Mathieu Schneider slapshot, breaking his orbital bone and scratching his cornea. He would miss the rest of the playoffs and the World Cup, and would not return to playing until the 2005-06 season. He scored 34 points in 61 games, despite playing limited minutes and serving primarily as a defensive specialist.

So Yzerman could, aside from his injuries, be considered one of the league's top centermen every year due to the fact he was among the scoring leaders for centers (injury aside) as well as a consistent contender for the Selke award from 1995-96 through 2001-02.

And before that, Yzerman was one of the League's elite offensive talents and a solid defensive player.

Lidstrom is one of the League's elite defensemen, and like Yzerman he will likely take a noticeable discount to ensure that his team has the best chance to win. How much of a discount? Who knows. Hopefully he takes under $3m. That would be wonderful. Trade Ericsson or Kindl for Kaberle and Toronto's 2011 1st or 2nd pick? Why not. Think of a defense like this: Lidstrom-Rafalski, Kronwall-Stuart, Kaberle-Ericsson/Kindl/Meech... pretty nice if you ask me. Kaberle definitely fills that slot on the second PP unit pretty well, who CARES if he shoots lefty.

Don't mean to 'piss in your Chelios' regarding Yzerman, but he didn't take his big paycut until after the lockout. Of course, pre-lockout his salary didn't matter (to anyone besides Ilitch I suppose) so it's not really the same situation anyway.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Nick did take something ridiculously low, like 3 or 2 even, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 6.7 or more either. Holland will let Nick know our cap situation, what kind of options we'll have depending on what Nick takes, then let Nick decide what he wants.

#1990420 Conn Smythe Candidates

Posted by Buppy on 27 May 2010 - 03:44 PM

If the Flyers win it should go to Halak. He's the real reason they're there. :)

#1989805 If you had to predict what the 2010-2011 Roster WILL look like

Posted by Buppy on 25 May 2010 - 11:03 PM

with money we might save off Lids and the money we save by not bringing back Miller,Williams whats that like 2mill between the 2 does any one think we could get Raffi Torres hes a big guys 6'0 220 skates good, hits,can fight and can chip in offensivly have something like...


You're forgetting perhaps that we are adding almost $3 million in Hudler. With all the other FAs, it certainly not outside the realm of possibility (particularly if we go with Kindl and Meech for the 6 & 7 D), but I'd say it's unlikely.

#1987361 Holland Wants Bert Back

Posted by Buppy on 19 May 2010 - 08:32 PM

Was this supposed to be sarcasm? don't think you've mastered it yet if so. No chemistry with Franzen and Zetterberg? Is that how he managed 11 points in 12 playoff games?

Eaves 22 points are almost Bertuzzi's 44? Don't quite see how that math works. God forbid we take opportunities away from Hudler after all he did for the team this season :rolleyes:

5 points in 1 game, mostly because of Franzen's explosion. 6 points in the other 11. Most of those courtesy of Zetterberg's and Filppula's strong play. For the most part, Bert did little to really earn those points. Also, 1 game != chemistry.

And excuse me, I should have been more clear. I meant goals.

Bert isn't right for the 3rd line. He isn't good enough to justify losing a young player like Miller or Eaves. He isn't good enough to justify bumping Flip or Cleary or Hudler to the third line (one of them already will be). A decent scoring third line isn't worth a poor scoring second. Unless Homer decides to retire, I just don't think we have room for Bert.

#1987337 Holland Wants Bert Back

Posted by Buppy on 19 May 2010 - 06:45 PM

well if bertuzzi had barely more than eaves
then zetterberg had barely more than bertuzzi

get rid of hank. i'm tired of that lazy bum

If all we could fairly expect from Hank was 23 goals, then we would rightly want him gone.

But we know he just had a bad year. We know we can expect much better from him. He is not 35. He is a star that can make things happen all over the ice. We have no players younger and better than Hank.

You can't say any of the above about Bert. Hank had a terrible year by his standards. That does not make Bert's performance better.

He was ok last year. Pretty good value while we had an opening. Now we don't have an opening. If he comes back (and assuming Homer also returns) we'll have to give up someone like Eaves, Miller, Ritola, or some FA addition who would likely help us just as much now, and possibly have a future.

Bert played 17 more games, ~500 more minutes, ~200 more PP minutes, with much better linemates than Eaves. But he scored just 6 more goals. Eaves was a better value. Eaves is 26. Eaves will likely be cheaper. Eaves might actually get better.

Don't forget Bert's mediocre season just because he finished with a couple good games. He's not a star. He's nothing even remotely special. We don't need him. If we had the roster space, fine. But we don't unless we give up someone young. I'd rather not do that. Not for Bert at least.

#1986575 Luxury Tax System

Posted by Buppy on 17 May 2010 - 11:18 PM

Figured this would come up the next time the Wings lost a playoff series.

A luxury tax system is nice, but it still encourages more spending. Teams had proven when there was no system in place to curb their spending that they would spend themselves into bankruptcy to try and be competitive as far as having superstars and getting (at very least) into the playoffs is concerned. A luxury tax would, despite the "sharing" of tax revenues of those over a designated cap, still encourage reckless spending and thus pit the NHL into the same problem it had pre-cap era.

This is without foresight at all, and imo it's just a way to get the Wings out of a cap system so they can spend a lot more money and buy a lot more superstars again so we can see another roster like that of 2002.

I think it would need some real analysis, and I think it could be something to look at in the future, but after a cursory look at some numbers can't see how it could be viable right now.

Most teams in the league are already spending close to or over the cap for salaries. All but 3 teams over $45M. 19 spent ~$51M or more. Then looking at revenue reports from 09, I guesstimate non-salary expenses to be around $30M. That puts the break-even revenue already at $80-90M. Many teams are likely still well below that, and only a handful significantly above.

This probably wouldn't hurt (and might even help) the franchises struggling the most, but the middle of the pack teams would suffer. Those making a little now would likely slip into the red, while those losing a little would get even worse. It could even push some pretty successful teams into a loss.

Perhaps in the future, if we move some teams into better markets, get a better TV deal, better sponshorship, or whatever; get to a point where the majority of teams in the league are actually turning a profit, then it would be worth discussing. But right now, if anything, it looks like the cap is a little too high.