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Member Since 14 Feb 2009
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#2028075 Penguins sign Arron Asham

Posted by Buppy on 21 August 2010 - 03:07 PM

I agree. Asham would've been a nice little addition and for cheap.


But he's a guy who was had for cheap that would've made a team better. That seems worth commenting on. This place has become such a Red Wings cheerleading camp sometimes. Talking about this s*** doesn't mean you hate the Wings or think Holland is a bad GM. It's a hockey forum.


Do you really think taking Asham instead of Modano would make this team any better? Talking about it is one thing. Saying it sucks and is worse than Williams is another. Even at the most optimistic, you can't possibly consider Asham anything other than a lateral move at this point. And that's only if you consider his fighting ability to be valuable.

Since when has a solid 3rd line center been someone who can't check and has never been known as a great defensive forward?

I know we have other forwards that can play defense, but it'd be nice to have a 3rd line with more than one defensive forward. Modano will be asked to change his whole mindset around and take a complete back seat on this team in a role he's not all that familiar with.

It might work or it may not. Don't know why everyone thinks it'll be a success without reservations. You do realize that he's not a star anymore?

Secondary scoring is what Modano's role will be, same as it was last year in Dallas. (And he'd been transitioning to that role for a couple years prior.) He's not expected to be a star. He was successful on the third line with crap linemates in Dallas. That's why people think he can do just as well or better here with Hudler and Cleary.

Sure it would be nice to have a defensive forward centering the third line. It would be nice to have a team full of Selke candidates who would also compete for the Art Ross. But we don't need it. A third line doesn't have to be a checking line. The other three lines are all capable of playing excellent defense. Besides, the one thing you keep ignoring is that Asham isn't any better than Modano defensively. He's never been known for his defense either. He's never really been a feature on any PK. He's not even that prolific of a hitter. If you're so concerned about defense, why would you want Asham over Miller? Miller is much younger than Asham (something you also seem to value), has similar offensive ability (and maybe some untapped potential), hits just as much, and is far better defensively. Yet you'd take Asham. What is it Asham does that Miller doesn't? Oh, but that's not why you want Asham...

I agree that our third line would be good enough without Modano, but it's also better with him. And I believe that improvement is much better then we'd get from Asham's mediocre fighting skills. Our third and fourth lines are better and harder to play against with Modano than they would be with Asham.

#2027876 Penguins sign Arron Asham

Posted by Buppy on 20 August 2010 - 08:43 PM

I was waiting for that. And I just mentioned above what 4th liners we shouldn't have signed. There's nothing stupid about my complaint. You just don't see it my way that's all.

Draper was already signed. Nothing could have been done about it this year. Neither Maltby nor Downey will be regular members of this team. At most they will get contracts to play in GR.

We already have to get rid of one of Miller, Ritola, Eaves, Helm, or Abby. So to sign Asham, we'd have to lose a 2nd (or not sign Modano, who adds much more to the team). Then, to have him actually play, you have to take a 3rd out of the lineup.

Not saying Asham would make the team worse (unless you take him over Modano), but he wouldn't make the team any better either. That's why I think it's stupid. It's irrelevant.

#2027843 Penguins sign Arron Asham

Posted by Buppy on 20 August 2010 - 07:11 PM

That makes no sense. It should be the other way around.

I'm actually starting to believe that Asham must have turned the Wings down, because Holland wouldn't actually be so stupid as to sign only enforcers, but not guys who can do more than just fight.

I think it's more a case of us having enough (too many even) 4th liners already. We DO prioritize skill over everything else, but we also usually keep a spot reserved for a tough guy. This year, all those spots were filled already.

Nothing to get upset about. We have a solid 4th line, maybe one of the best in the league. Asham wouldn't have made us any better.

#2027601 Hawks sign Fernando Pisani, $500k

Posted by Buppy on 19 August 2010 - 10:43 PM

I love how you conveinatly leave out Miller's 14 game stint with Tampa in which he recorded NO points and was a -3. Makes you wonder how much playing on a good team with a better record influences/motivates a player, huh? In addition, despite all of Pisani's injuries and inferior linemates his stats prorated would be mearly 3 points less of Miller's total production. When you factor in ice time and linemates, Pisani would almost have certainly surpassed Miller's production.

Couple that with the fact that Pisani's goals agaisnt average per 60 min of pk time was FAR BELOW that of both Miller's and Eave's, despite being on a DRASTICALLY worse team, and it becomes harder and harder to argue that Miller outplayed him enough to warrent that much more money last year.

You are looking at simply the stat line, instead of situational statistics such as quality of oppositsiton faced (hint... Pisani was the highest on the Oilers), and quality of linemates + Ice time. I suggest you dig deeper into the stats before you throw out ones that our clearly unfair to compare.

Pisani averaged more ice time than both Miller and Eaves. And while Edmonton was certainly terrible, neither Eaves nor Miller were playing with particularly great linemates all the time. May, Maltby, Draper, Helm, Abby, Williams, Leino...not that much different from Horcoff, O'Sullivan, Moreau, Gagner, etc. Miller may have played a bit with the likes of Flip and Cleary, but you're acting like he spent the year on the top line with Pav and Hank or something.

And I'm not sure what kind of math you're doing, but Pisani was on the ice for 10 PPGA in 91:42 (~6.5/60 min). Eaves was 13 in 147:54 (5.3), Miller was 7 in 120:31 (3.6).

Pisani is 33, hasn't played more than 56 games in the past three seasons. He had one decent season and a great playoff, and has been going downhill ever since.

Miller is 26, coming off his first full season in the NHL, and makes only $150k more.

Eaves is also 26, just had somewhat of a bounce-back season after two down years, and makes only $250k more.

Not saying Pisani is terrible, or that it isn't a good signing. He's fine for a 4th line role. But I'd much rather have the younger guys without potentially problematic diseases, even if they do make a little more money.

#2027154 The single biggest scapegoat of the Red Wings in the last 20+ years...

Posted by Buppy on 18 August 2010 - 03:53 PM

As unfair as it is teams play differently in front of different goalies. Goalies instill confidence in players and maybe Hasek gave the team the ability to go out and produce offensively while when Cujo was in net they had to play a more defensive style. Whether that's true or not I don't know - Im speculating. But it's similar to this past season. When Osgood was in net and letting in goals the D would have to tighten up. WHen Howard was in net and making the saves he should the Wings could go out and do what they had to in the offensive zone.

It's not always about quantity of saves - it's more about quality sometims.

Equally ridiculous.

Like Eva said, you can't really blame the way the team plays on the goalie, especially in Cujo's case when he played very well. We were putting up 30-35+ shots a game, allowing ~20-30. Those aren't numbers suggesting the team was in a defensive shell. Likewise, a goalie that needs to be protected doesn't post a .935 save percentage.

6 goals on 171 shots in 4 games against Anaheim.

3 goals (shutout twice) on 127 shots in 4 losses to Calgary. In the last two games against Calgary, Cujo made 63 of 65 saves.

Blaming Jospeh at all for those losses is retarded.

#2026844 Byfuglien jinxed?

Posted by Buppy on 17 August 2010 - 05:09 PM

Stalberg on the 2nd line... Posted Image

Wishful thinking. Kopy will be on the 2nd line...

#2026759 Hitting and Winning

Posted by Buppy on 17 August 2010 - 01:47 PM

Hitting is not the same as grit. Note that Philadelphia, which is a gritty team to the point of some here saying they were goonish, ranked 14th in hits.

Sure hitting has something to do with the other, but when people are wanting the Wings to be gritty, I don't think that means they're just wanting them to run around and hit guys more. If you look through any of the grit threads most of the talk isn't about hitting.

That blog is bad statistical analysis used to prove an idea the author already seemed to have in mind. If you asked anyone is there a direct correlation between hits and points, I think most people would say no.

He mentions some anomalies, but doesn't explain situations like with LA who was 2nd in hits and 27th in points in 2009, then only dropped three places to 5th in hits but jumped all the way up to 9th in points. There's too many other variables outside his oversimplified premise for it to mean anything.

I think 'other variables' was the premise.

It's not really a point that needed to be made, since as you said most people already know that hitting does not mean winning.

There may be a vocal crowd that preaches hitting an aggressiveness, but I think it's meant more in a 'play harder' way then a 'that's the key to victory' way, if you get my meaning. People also complain about turnovers, slowness, dumb penalties, missing open shots, etc. I'm sure if you asked people in Columbus what kind of players they'd want to add, more skill would be a priority. That doesn't mean they shouldn't expect their current players to play harder, finish their checks, clear the crease, etc... All in all, a pretty dumb article.

#2025070 games to go to

Posted by Buppy on 11 August 2010 - 02:25 AM

Game five of the Finals, for the celebration afterward. :ninja:

#2023353 NHL itinerary for the "Shanahan Summit"

Posted by Buppy on 06 August 2010 - 04:42 PM

Hybrid icing rule, ref off the ice, goal verification line, line change zone...all could be good.

What would be the point of changing the blue line though?

The rest are stupid.

#2023045 Why sign a sixth Dman?

Posted by Buppy on 06 August 2010 - 05:31 AM


His defense has dropped significantly and his play with and without the puck in the defensive zone is abysmal. He is probably our 4th best defenseman with regards to overall ability. He is overrated by too many people.

His one on one defense hasn't really ever been great, and has fallen off since the lockout took away his New Jersey-style grabbing, but he's generally sound positionally, skates and moves the puck well, and usually makes good decisions. He blocks shots, clogs passing and shooting lanes, has a pretty good stick, and can usually at least force people to the outside.

He's a bit turnover prone and a little too old/small/weak to handle a fast/strong forward by himself. He's not a shutdown defender (even though he's used as one), but he's much better than abysmal. Much better than you give him credit for.

#2022609 This team's still missing one thing..

Posted by Buppy on 04 August 2010 - 11:46 PM

We allowed 65 3rd period goals last year (6th best in the league, NJ was best with 58). Record when leading after the 2nd period was 28-2-4. Not a stellar win%, but our poor OT/SO record (11-14) probably contributed a bit to that.

Our team defense was very good last year. Maybe didn't seem like it without the offense we're used to having, but this year should help with that. Also, the possession game is a big key to our defense, and that should improve this year as well. I wouldn't say anything is missing.

Of course, you never pass up a chance to improve, and Pronger would be an improvement over Rafi, but he also has 6 more years (after this one) on his stupid contract. We do not want to be saddled with that.

#2022053 Mike Modano signs with Detroit

Posted by Buppy on 03 August 2010 - 03:21 PM

According to which team does Modano still have it? To Dallas he is done with nothing left but Detorit there is still one more good year in him. Same situation but different name in Maltby. On one team he is done on another team he might provide something.

Modano's free love ran out in Dallas, as it seems Maltby's in Detroit. If Dallas is getting called out on how it treated Modano during this offseason then Detroit should get called out as well. People turn a blind eye depending on the name of a player. For Detroit to ask...well really demand that Maltby have shoulder surgery and possible end his career while on the IR then not have the decency to at least make him an offer is a slap in the face to Maltby.

Detroit pretty much tossing Maltby aside and forgetting about him is OK...but Modano getting tossed aside from Dallas is a no no. Which is it.. OK to walk away from a player that a GM thinks is done or be respectful and give him that 1 more year? That one more year to give him a chance to go out the way they want to.

Ridiculous comparison.

One, it's not the name of the player, but their ability. Dallas surely doesn't think Modano is 'done'. (Or if they do, they're stupid) He scored 30 points in 59 games. They just decided to go in a different direction. Not sure anyone knows what direction that is, since they still apparently have an open forward spot and plenty of cap space, but...

Maltby, who has only twice in his career put up over 30 points (and never .5 ppg), hasn't scored more than 11 points in a season since the lockout. His last three years combined didn't match what Modano did last year. Given the two seasons prior to his last contract, the 3 year deal he got then was pretty generous, and that should have been more than sufficient for him to go out his own way. Sucks that all the injuries put us in such a bad spot last year, but well, s*** happens.

We can't just keep throwing contracts at players who have borderline NHLers for 5 straight seasons just because they've been here a long time. We have been more than loyal to Kirk, and as much as he might want to stay, he really has no right to any hard feelings.

Modano is not only still a pretty good player (better than half the Stars current roster), he was also a leader and face of the Stars/North Stars franchise for 20 years. They aren't up against the cap, nor have a roster full of superior talent. They basically replaced him with Adam Burish. He and his fans are perfectly justified in being a bit upset.

#2021640 It's Official: Turco to Hawks

Posted by Buppy on 02 August 2010 - 05:14 PM

I have to question this move.

It would have been tough, but Chicago could have fit Niemi in under the cap. This move makes it a little easier this year, but I'm not sure that it really improves their team (it could make them worse, if Turco continues to degrade). Apparently, there were some concerns about the future, since Niemi was awarded a one year deal and would have become UFA after this year. But I don't see how giving a one year deal to a 35 year old helps that situation.

Niemi had a very good rookie season, and overall his playoff performance was decent. With the bonus overage being just a one year thing, Chicago's cap situation next summer would be much better. With Seabrook and Brouwer the only other important FAs, keeping Niemi then wouldn't have been too hard.

Now they have to find another goalie next summer, and who knows what will be available. I think they're taking a big risk here for a pretty minor gain.

#2018336 Hawks trade Reasoner to Panthers for Jeff Taffe

Posted by Buppy on 22 July 2010 - 11:56 PM

No, I don't dislike them;

They're for the most part equal contributors offensively at this point, but Cleary is very injury prone and Flip somewhat.

Bolland is also the best defensive player of the three.

Bolland has had his own injury issues, but if I have to choose one or the other, I'm picking the healthy young guy right?

One serious injury in five NA seasons and Flip is 'somewhat injury prone'?

If anything, I'd be worried about Bolland's herniated disk that required surgical repair, since that's the kind of injury that could bother a player for their entire career. He's only two years younger than Flip too. Again, I have to ask, are you really referring to Dave Bolland? From Chicago?

It's like saying 'Man, I really wish Flip had a slightly higher cap hit' since they're pretty equal players.

#2017610 Loophole

Posted by Buppy on 21 July 2010 - 02:07 AM

No idea where this came from. I said the NHL is an industry, not a business entity. As for the rest of that sentance, what the hell were you reading?

Now you are duplicitous. By definiton, you can't talk about just the sporting aspect if you are going to talk about resources devoted to players salaries.

Forgive me if I'm being unclear. I'll try to clarify.

I don't want to argue semantics, so I think we can agree that industry and business entity are similar enough terms. Both of us I think, were referring to the fact that the NHL and its member franchises generate significant revenue, and generally operate in a businesslike manner, having employees, customers, products, et al.

I inferred that your comment on the NHL industry was a counter to my own assertion of the fact that we're talking about a game. The intent seemingly to suggest that the salary cap restricts the ability of the Wings to operate as a business. But you followed that up with an example only of how the cap restricts the Wings in respect to the sporting competition.

I then took each aspect of NHL/team operation separately to try to illustrate that the cap is not really a socialist policy in respect to either aspect. I then commented later in the post that you can't totally separate the two. In case you missed it: "...you can't totally separate the game aspect from the business either. So the cap must be considered in the complete terms. An arbitrary rule governing competition in a sporting league, which does not appear to impact the earning power of member franchises, nor restrict in any way outside of league competition the freedom of those franchises to 'reap their fruits'.

I contend that the cap is a 'competition' rule, in that it's sole restriction is on the amount of money that can be spent on player salaries. The salary cap places no limits on what the Wings can do otherwise to promote, increase the value of, or generate revenue from, their product. Nor does it restrict any other ways in which Illitch or the Wings organization can spend their profits. And while I admit the cap can have an adverse effect on the quality of the on ice product and thus potentially be impactful from a business perspective, that effect is outweighed by the positive benefits gained from membership in the NHL. Therefore, I conclude that there is nothing 'socialist' about it. It is simply a rule, very much like all the others, governing the manner in which teams are to compete in the NHL.

You seem to be laboring under the pretense that all rules are socialist. But without those rules, we wouldn't have a game. There would be no product for the NHL and its members to promote and sell. We obviously need some rules. The primary purpose being to regulate fair competition. But the existance of another rule designed to increase the number of viable competitors is not unfair at all. Everyone has the same limit, it is a fair rule of competition.

The draft is a better example of a socialist rule, since it is not a fair practice. But personally, I dislike the idea of luck being such a factor in draft position, though it would be more fair. I enjoy the parity and level of competition in the league, and thus I think the draft as it is is good for the league.