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#2565676 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 23 January 2015 - 11:33 AM

Again, we have other assets that could be used in a trade before Pulkkinen. He is far and away the purest goal scorer in the organization and he is right handed to boot. In my opinion, it would be very short sighted to trade him at this point. Sure, it is possible that he tops out as a third line winger / power-play specialist, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility that he surpasses a guy like Tatar or even Nyquist on the depth chart in a few years. The kid has been a beast in every league he has played, no reason to think he can't be in the NHL as well...


Sure, we have lots of other assets that could be traded.  But not too many that "could" be traded, that also have value to other teams.  I think we're having a miscommunication of some sort.  I say, "I won't be surprised if he's traded", and you respond with "he shouldn't be traded, he's going to be good".  I agree with you.  He'll probably be pretty good.  And it's precisely that reason, and the emergence of Nyquist and Tatar as bona fide stars, which makes me think it's a possibility.  


In some ways I think I'm starting to understand the way you post, and the way you look at this team.  Which might make it easier for us to have productive discussions going forward.  You like the Red Wings, and you like certain players, and so your mind will always try to figure out ways to utilize the players you like to help the team you like.  But the key point is that the player you like and the team you like be together.  I can dig it.   

#2565668 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 23 January 2015 - 09:52 AM

I suppose the reason I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded is because of where he fits onto this team moving forward.  Lets say in 3-5 years, who are the Wings potential top six wingers?  Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, Abby, Pulkkinen, and Jurco.  Now, he's not really competing with the big bodied guys (Mantha, Abby, Jurco) and Nyquist and Tatar are already proven high scoring NHL players.  So as of now, he's the shooting winger on the third line (and obviously a power play specialist) if he continues to develop and have success.  


I'd never be surprised if a third liner is traded.  Particularly if it's for something like a top four defenseman. 


All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised.  Sure he's a shooter, and sure he's right handed.  And those things are huge buzz words for the organization.  But the shooter thing matters a little less when you've got established goal scorers in Nyquist and Tatar, and an expected goal scorer in Mantha.  And the right handedness is more of a need on the back end than the front end.  Obviously, you'd like to have both, but if losing a righty up front gains you a righty top four defender, I can see Holland being ok with the trade off. 

#2565533 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 22 January 2015 - 11:04 AM

To me, the biggest thing he's going to have to do is get WAY stronger.  He's a little guy.  You don't realize it until you see him in person.  By comparison, Nyquist and Tatar look like big dudes.  Which, I assume, is because of their respective fitness levels.  I don't even really care if he gains weight (which he probably will), as long as he just gets WAY stronger.  He's got a really low center of gravity, so if he does put on some muscle and/or add some power, he'll win a lot of the battles he loses.  


Other than his shot, there are a few things I really like about his game.  He's got good first step quickness.  He can jump on loose pucks and find open spots on the ice as a result.  He's also pretty defensively responsible.  I noticed him backtracking and checking his coverage a lot.  Finally, I really like his aggressiveness.  He doesn't play pensive, at all.  He jumps into scrums, battles on the boards, and will put his body on the line to make a play.  He battles, he's just too weak to win the battles right now.  But he's definitely not afraid.


He's got an alpha mentality, but right now beta strength.  If he can be an explosive 195-200 lbs. (which I don't think is unrealistic given his frame), I think he'll be a really exciting player because he doesn't lack much else. 

#2565411 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2015 - 12:12 PM

Holland knows what he's got with Callahan, Marchenko, and to a lesser extent Pulkkinen.  However, Sproul, Mantha, and Ferraro seem like (until recently) they're still in flux.  I imagine that's why he's scouting them.  He already knows who his most NHL ready guys are, but why not take a look at the next in line guys and see how they've progressed?

#2565422 Petry next Oiler to be shopped - FTLOG Kenny, get it done!

Posted by DickieDunn on 21 January 2015 - 12:43 PM

I don't think that package would get anyone better than what the Wings have now.  Nastasiuk, or a similar prospect, simply doesn't have much value, neither does Kindl.  Ouellet has some, but not as much as a lot of fans think, and the pick depends on which round.  A lot of sub-par to decent pieces generally doesn't get you a higher end piece.


With the number of players the Wings have on the roster signed longer term or they plan on keeping, plus the 4 prospects who look like they have a good chance of being NHL players, their best bet is to trade Smith or Dekeyser, plus a D prospect, and a draft pick if they trade for a top 4 D who's going to be around for awhile.

#2565351 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 21 January 2015 - 02:19 AM

I'm actually totally fine with that. We just need to find a taker for Kindl, We should try one of the RH soon, Pursue Franson and Greene in the offseason.

#2565002 1/20 GDT: Wild 4 @ Red Wings 5 (SO)

Posted by Echolalia on 20 January 2015 - 08:02 PM

aaaaannnnnddddd back in the doghouse

#2564937 1/20 GDT: Wild 4 @ Red Wings 5 (SO)

Posted by Echolalia on 20 January 2015 - 04:01 PM

I think I figured out the lines, guys.  Babs is ALL about overcoming adversity and earning the right to feel good about yourself and working your way back up through the lineup, so anytime someone starts playing poorly, Babs gets excited because this is an opportunity for a player to grow, so he demotes them to the third or fourth line.  Except Sheahan has been on the club for over a year, now, and hasn't had a poor stretch yet. And Babs is baffled and upset because Sheahan hasn't had that opportunity to build character or whatever.  So Babcocks is all "whatever, I'll give you adversity myself!  Glendening!  Miller!  You guys are playing with Sheahan now!"  And that's the story of how Mike Babcock saved Sheahan from himself.

#2564923 1/20 GDT: Wild 4 @ Red Wings 5 (SO)

Posted by rick zombo on 20 January 2015 - 03:16 PM

Screw Weiss' and his "demotion".


You know who doesn't get enough love around here? Sheahan.


Why would anyone take that poor poor boy and wedge him between two offensive gargoyles?

#2564809 Jimmy Howard.......All-Star!

Posted by DickieDunn on 19 January 2015 - 11:27 PM

Sorry if I misunderstood the above comment ... it seemed like you wanted Kenny to get working on a Howie deal tomorrow.  

no, what I was talking about was a couple years from now when Howie still has years left on his $5 mil deal

You weren't very clear on that

#2564719 Are the Wings a Contender?

Posted by number9 on 19 January 2015 - 09:47 AM

This team is a top 6 fwd and a top 2 D away from going deep in the post season.

I feel like we've been saying this for years.

IMO the glaring hole is at at D. I think an addition there would be more than enough.

The top 6 has Datsyuk, Zberg, Tatar, and Nyquist holding it down, plus more than a few guys who can rotate in.

The D has Kronwall.

DK steady, just doesn't contribute offensively as I'd like.

#2564717 Are the Wings a Contender?

Posted by Andy Pred 48 on 19 January 2015 - 09:38 AM

This team is a top 6 fwd and a top 2 D away from going deep in the post season.

#2564265 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by Euro_Twins on 18 January 2015 - 07:14 PM

Assuming sproul continues his defense development and keeps his offensive game intact I think he makes it over Jensen.

#2564714 Jimmy Howard.......All-Star!

Posted by krsmith17 on 19 January 2015 - 08:05 AM

I couldn't agree more Playmaker. +10


Also, in regards to the Mrazek vs Howard debate... Before last night I wanted to sign Mrazek to a mega deal and trade Howard, but after last nights performance, I think we should probably trade or maybe even waive Mrazek. We probably wouldn't get much in return after last nights performance anyway. I mean 3 goals allowed on 7 shots? That's aaaawful. He will never ever get it done at the NHL level, unless of course he has a bounce back game next game. Then, we should probably trade Howard. I mean, no team wants to have two capable goaltenders at one time, that would be what they call a "goalie controversy", bad news... I'm not sure, am I doing this right?... f***in LGW... :lol:

#2564704 Jimmy Howard.......All-Star!

Posted by DickieDunn on 19 January 2015 - 01:18 AM

I just looked up some goalie retirement ages. Seems most were around 37-39 years old (of course some are older, but I suspect that isn't the norm)


So a couple points here.

(DISLAIMER: These numbers are just guesses based on league patterns. I understand that it may not actually play out this way. The points remain the same.)


1. Jimmy turn 31 in a couple months. I'd say Howie has about 6,7, maybe 8 seasons left in his career. Of those years, maybe 3-4 are still good production years, with declining production after that.

     -We could keep him until he retires, which would almost certainly mean mrazek gets moved (and yeah we would probably get a good package back for him).


2. Mrazek turns 23 next month. That gives him maybe 14-16 years left in a normal career, with perhaps 11 give or take in the pre-decline years (yeah I made that up, pre-decline years aren't an official league stat track by professionals trackers. go ahead throw a fit about).

     -We could keep mrazek and trade Howie

        -Howie's trade value is never going to be higher than it is right now. With each passing year his value will decline exponentially

     -Peak production years are usually 25-28 or maybe 24-29.

        -I'd presonally like to have him ready to compete for cups at 24-25 with a longer prime window to compete for cups, instead of getting his feet under him          playing his first full season as a starter or worse splitting time (or even worse backing up) at 25


Z & Pav were both playing full seasons with the wings when they were 22-23 years old, held their own while getting used to the NHL, and then their production really picked up a few years later right on track.


So I guess the question is,


Is 6-8 more seasons of Howie (who isn't going to get any better and doesn't have the intangibles) worth losing 14-16 seasons of Mrazek?

Or should we get mrazek going soon, get a good 11-12 seasons out of him, and lose the tail end (6-8) seasons of Howie?



Mrazek will sign a RFA deal, when Howard's contract is up they'll keep whichever is the best at that point.  There is zero reason to trade either.  I don't get why you seem to think it's an either/or proposition.