I wouldn't say he's been inconsistent. His production hasn't great to begin the season, but once Ouellet came to the big club, Sproul became the primary puck mover in GR and his production increased. Can't speak to his defense, but I can say he's really picked in up offensively after having almost no points in the first quarter of the season.
Just took a look and he had 10 points through 13 games in December, which is obviously impressive. He seems to have slowed down since (can't expect him to keep that up), which is what I was getting at. He had two points heading into December, so all things considered, it's good to see that he picked it up.
But you have evidence to suspect him of "emotional issues"?
This whole thread has turned hokey. Why don't we all stick to Franzen and hockey and not try to assassinate/dissect his character. Regardless of how we feel about him on the ice, there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest he's not a decent, committed, hard working, emotionally stable person.
Jesusberg, no you're right, they're not the same situation. In one case, we gave up a pretty solid prospect at a position that we were really deep at, and he had no chance at cracking the lineup any time soon, and in the other, we'd be giving up a solid young defenseman, who is starting to round out his game and come into his own. Why would you give up on that for potentially just a few months of service from another player? Especially after seeing what happened in the Legwand situation... Also, Holland can do whatever he wants to try to get Green to stay in Detroit past this season, but chances are Green would test the open market, and if there is a better offer elsewhere, which there likely would be, nothing's stopping him from signing anywhere else... What makes you think Babcock is high on Green? I would think Green is the polar opposite of a player Babcock would be high on. As a matter of fact, the one reason I'm not sure if Green would be a great trade for us, aside from the cost, is that I think he would end up in Babcock's doghouse within weeks...
I was conceding that it sucked giving up Jarnkrok for a rental. While we differ on how much value Smith has, we can agree that moving an asset for a rental player isn't worth it in this team's current situation. Holland's recently admitted he thinks he paid too much: http://www.theredwin...rade-deadline/#
"They're a good team," Babcock said. "When (Mike) Green's your fifth D-man you must have a really good back end. I think Green's a star."
I'd say that's some nice praise. Things can change, obviously. Perhaps Green would come here, play poorly and dive headfirst into the dog house. At the very least, I think it shows Babcock has a desire to add an offensive guy to this roster. If it's not Green, it's someone else if a similar mindset/playing style.
To me, the biggest thing he's going to have to do is get WAY stronger. He's a little guy. You don't realize it until you see him in person. By comparison, Nyquist and Tatar look like big dudes. Which, I assume, is because of their respective fitness levels. I don't even really care if he gains weight (which he probably will), as long as he just gets WAY stronger. He's got a really low center of gravity, so if he does put on some muscle and/or add some power, he'll win a lot of the battles he loses.
Other than his shot, there are a few things I really like about his game. He's got good first step quickness. He can jump on loose pucks and find open spots on the ice as a result. He's also pretty defensively responsible. I noticed him backtracking and checking his coverage a lot. Finally, I really like his aggressiveness. He doesn't play pensive, at all. He jumps into scrums, battles on the boards, and will put his body on the line to make a play. He battles, he's just too weak to win the battles right now. But he's definitely not afraid.
He's got an alpha mentality, but right now beta strength. If he can be an explosive 195-200 lbs. (which I don't think is unrealistic given his frame), I think he'll be a really exciting player because he doesn't lack much else.
This is a really good assessment. I think his back-checking and ability to battle for loose pucks have improved greatly. His skating was one of the biggest knocks on him when he was first drafted, and he's clearly improved that as well. I feel like he took the "shoot, shoot, shoot" advice too literally, as there were several occasions where he would have been better served just getting the puck deep. In his last couple games, I think he did a better job with the little things.
The one thing that he probably struggled with (as most guys do when coming up) is not being "the guy". Your total ice time is lower, the offense isn't running through you and you have less time to make decisions with the puck (in part) because you have it less. I think they're going to ease him into the line-up next season much like they did with Tatar. He'll most likely start as the 13th-14th forward, then push to earn more ice time.
As you say, this is going to be an important off-season for him. Pulks has all the tools, he just needs to adjust to the pace of the NHL and improve his strength. He's just going to have to bust his behind.
I would consider trading Smith in a package for Green, if and only if we knew he would resign. There is no way I give up Smith plus the assets it would take to get Green here for just a few short months. Especially considering I don't think we're that close to being a "favorite" to win the Cup this year. I do believe we're a contender but I don't think Green puts us over the top into the "favorites" conversation... For the same reason, I wouldn't trade away any major assets for the number one defenseman I'd like to have that will be available, Cody Franson. Not worth it if they're going to walk in the summer, and they both probably would want to test the open market, considering they will be on 20+ teams wishlist. I'd also like to have Wisniewski, and to a lesser extent, Bogosian, Wideman or Byfuglien...
I completely understand this logic. Even though they're not the exact same situation, it's unfortunate that we gave up Jarnkrok for a rental.
I think this situation is a bit different, though. I can't imagine Holland not doing every thing in his power to retain Green if we managed to trade for him. Babcock is high on Green, and the team sorely lacks someone like him on the back-end. I believe that Holland would be able to sign him, and at a fair cap hit to boot. There are definitely some risks involved - is Green looking to cash in, what kind of term does he want? I think it would be worth the risk, personally.
Also, I wouldn't mind landing Franson in the off-season. He'll more than likely be cheaper than Green, and he doesn't have the injury concerns. As always, it's just going to be interesting to see how Holland would shuffle players around to make room for a UFA.
We need to lose 2 or 3 of Ericsson, Quincey, Smith and Kindl?? Seriously? Why? To make room for the kids? I'm going to say this again, no matter how high some of us are on the kids coming up from Grand Rapids (Ouellet, Sproul, Jensen, Marchenko) none are an upgrade over what we have, aside from Kindl. So why would replace Smith with one of them? I want to see the kids up as much as the next guy, but not at the expense of a better player. The only player I would replace with one of the kids is Kindl. As it stands right now, he is the only player in our top 6 that can be upgraded internally. If we're looking to make a trade, why not just package Kindl, one of our "awesome" defense prospects, another prospect and a pick for a top 4 right handed defenseman? That would make our back end significantly better, without losing a player like Smith. Petry is not an upgrade over Smith, so why would you make such a lateral move? Just for the sake of making a trade?... No thanks!
Because that probably doesn't get us a Top 4, RHD... unless you're looking at someone like Zidlicky or maaaybe Dennis Wideman.
Sometimes, I think you believe people just want to move Smith because they don't like him. It's possible that some do, but a lot of people suggest it for practical purposes (me). He's in a position of being at a good age, affordable, and still having potential that other teams might bite on. I'm of the belief that this team needs to add an experienced, offensive presence on the back end. You're not moving Kronwall or DeKeyser, and Quincey, Ericsson, Kindl and Lashoff don't have as much appeal (perhaps Ericsson does to a GM who hasn't watched hockey this season, and maybe Quincey to one who has). I truly believe Smith is the only guy who may have the appeal to land a true offensive defender.
I get it, I really do. You like Smith and think he has Top 4 upside. The problem is that he's still only showing flashes, and that Babcock does NOT seem to trust him. Do you honestly think that Babcock is going to use him in a Top 4 role?
Let me tell you a story. I had an irrational love for Kyle Calder when he was traded here. I was like, "whoa... that dude comes out hard from the corners and attacks the net." I just looked it up right now and he had something like 14 points in 19 games. He has a soul patch - I should have known better. Don't go down the Kyle Calder road, man.
Wow people are really reaching for this Smith is useless bulls***... First of all Brendan Smith is just as good as Jeff Petry right now, and he has a lot higher ceiling... and you're suggesting trading Smith AND a mid level prospect AND a pick for Petry? Are you kidding me? The blind hate on Smith is getting beyond ridiculous... Petry will go for a couple picks and you want to throw all that in for him?...
Petry is getting top line minutes in Edmonton, while Smith is getting third line minutes in Detroit, and yet he still isn't producing a significant amount more than Smith. Petry is producing at a 0.22% points per game pace, while Smith is producing at a 0.17% points per game pace. Not a huge difference for a player making over double the salary... Petry has also played an additional 36 minutes more on the power-play than Smith has this season. With those kinds of minutes on the man advantage, you would think he would be producing a LOT more, he is not at all. Let's have a look at their career points shall we? Believe it or not, Smith is actually producing at a slightly higher clip than Petry... Smith has 41 points in 160 games (0.256%) while Petry has 69 points in 281 games (0.245%).
You blame Smith for being a turnover machine, but Petry has over double the number of giveaways as Smith but he also has twice as many takeaways... Petry may be a little better defensively, hitting more and blocking more shots, but that stat is almost as skewed as the +/- stat, which Smith is obviously superior, playing for a better team, Smith is even and Petry is a -21. The only upside Petry has over Smith in my opinion, is that he is a right handed shot. Is that reason enough to make the trade? Hell no!
Not that I think the trade is fair, but it's tough to gauge value for a guy on a team like Edmonton against someone on Detroit, especially with peripheral stats.
As you admit, the stats are skewed here. Petry in Edmonton =/= Petry in Detroit, and the same for Smith on another team. Who knows, with PP time, Smith could put up 30-35 points on another club. Really though, Petry's not going to produce a lot more on a team that's pure, hot garbage. Any peripheral stats are most likely going to be inflated, too. Edmonton spends far less time with the puck, so Petry's hits, blocks and takeaways are going to be higher.
no, what I was talking about was a couple years from now when Howie still has years left on his $5 mil deal
Oh? Because this:
I want you're honest opinion.
Does anybody really miss Howard right now?
Right, just ignore the part about how his playing style helps the team....
Mrazek is putting up similar numbers to Howard's (so also 'Top 10') and has won 3 straight
You understand that at some point in every single player's career they "had no playoff experience", right?
It's not like Howard has had great success in the postseason (not all his fault, but it is what it is)
Edit: Yeah he is a rookie and he is young, which mean's he's still got potential to improve and get more comfortable than he already is.
When exactly is he going to get a full season under his belt so you can make a judgement on him? In six years when he's 28 and we've missed out on some almost all of his prime years?
Not really getting a whole lot of experience sitting on the bench for 70% of the games or observing playoff hockey from the second row (all those season ticket holders on the glass have sooo much playoff experience by now, suit em up!!). I agree that's probably what's going to happen.
Though I don't know if management has the balls to get rid of a known veteran commodity who has years left on a contract paying him like (5.5 mil?) a season, even if they have a better player ready to go.
all seem to suggest that you think Mrazek is capable of doing the job that Howard's doing right now, only better because of his ability to handle the puck. Then suggesting that Howard is in his way of getting in a "full season" for the next six years, because management can't judge Mrazek playing 20-30 games next year - suggests urgency in getting Mrazek into the starting position ASAP. You do realize that they could be splitting the games 40/40 as soon as 2017-18, right?
Regardless, I really don't think anyone was misreading your stance on the goaltending situation, but by all means, backpedal to your heart's content.
When Q and E are our bottom pairing ill be happy with the top 4 !
I understand Ericsson, but I think Quincey's played pretty well this season. He's played smart hockey, works well on the PK and is somehow 3rd in points for defensemen on this team. I hated the signing at the beginning of the season, but he's proven a lot of people wrong. He's doing exactly what the Red Wings need him to do with DeKeyser, IMO.
You guys understand that I have no influence whatsoever on what the actual management of the Wings does, Right? It's just one more fans opinion.
No I'm not mad, WTF haha. Again, this isn't just a reaction to a couple of games, it's about their playing styles.
And you really missed the boat thinking I'm just going for the flavor of the month. That whole thing was meant to combat that idea. When I say we should get Mrazek going it's because of this long term plan.
But yeah you're right, I forgot about how those Wings teams of yesterday never traded. We didn't trade people to get Shanahan, Chelios, and Hasek. WTH am I thinking here? Those guys we (didn't) traded to get them were signed to play with us and by god we honored that, out of pure loyalty! (that was sarcasm)
You're right. Trading for star players, and luring free agents is exactly the same as it was before the salary cap came into place. Holland has the freedom he did when he was able to move assets and spend whatever he wanted on free agents. (That was sarcasm, too.)
Today's NHL is all about parity - every one having the same amount of money to spend, and similar assets. It's all about development now, so you hang onto the proven assets you have until the unproven ones develop properly. (This isn't sarcasm.)