You would be wrong. 2007-8 was one long bitchfest, mainly about how the team was too soft to compete in the playoffs. When people weren't bitching about the lack of fighters, there were endless threads about our sucktacular goaltending as Hasek and Osgood fanboys took turns in deriding the other goaltender as an over the hill fruitcake, or as never good enough in the first place. The month of February saw us decimated by injuries, with a 1st pairing of Lilja-Lebda. Nevertheless, the associated slump in results was proof positive for all the Chicken Lickens that the team was not good enough to win the cup. Trade deadline day was an orgy of Holland hate. The announcement of the Stuart trade, coming after the deadline had passed, meant that the outright fury was only quelled down to a sullen, grudging "OK , I guess that'll do", but prior to that not even the Cleary re-signing generated so much HOLLAND YOU SUCK!!!! Being 3-0 up against the Stars and them coming back to 3-2 was further proof positive that this team wasn't good enough to win the cup. Not to mention, we had Eva Unit Zero and his always entertaining mental gymnastics bemoaning the under utilisation of Jiri Hudler, and how Hudler was a better player than Messier etc etc, if only we used Hudler more..... Finally, we had Mindfly. If you weren't here for it, it would be hard for you to understand just how overwhelmingly negative he was. Every loss, every goal against, every shot against, every icing, every lost faceoff was evidence of what a truly terrible team we had, how Holland should be fired, and the whole team traded for prospects and picks. After every loss he would pop up, preaching his gospel of doom and gloom. Thankfully we won a lot that year. I think us winning game 6 in Pittsburgh was probably the worst night of his life. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk
So basically, not much has changed around these parts
The days of arguing with Eva... oh, how I miss them. I was a rookie back then.
Weird to see Weiss on the outside looking in, but maybe Babcock just doesn't like what he's seen during the preseason. On the flip side, I am so stoked about those defensive pairings. Been waiting to see DeKeyser-Smith for awhile. I really hope they gel.
Nestrasil is a 6'3 RH C. We can use a guy like that in the lineup. If he keeps progressing the way he has we will have quite the gem. I like Callahan and don't want to lose him but Nestrasil is clearly more valuable to the team long term.
RH as in right handed? He's a lefty. And he's played a lot of left wing lately.
I think people's frustration with Babcock giving underperforming vets ice time is causing them to fixate too much on this one comment.
I'm not totally sure on this but I think Kindl has been a healthy scratch at some point every single season he's played for the Wings. After his poor performance last year, I can't see how that got him a guaranteed spot on the roster.
I agree 100% with your take on Kindl - I think Khan was kind of reaching when he claimed Kindl was safe as well. My take on it is that Lashoff is safer than Kindl is, by however slim of a margin. Him sitting on the bench half the season limits his impact on the team. I think you factor in his position on the team, cap hit, expectations, etc. and it makes him a less likely candidate to be replaced. My best guess is that if/when the decision is made to bring up one of the younger guys, they're going to attempt to move Kindl first. If they find themselves stuck with his contract, I assume they'd waive Lashoff before waiving Kindl, if only because it feels like less of a loss and he's not as likely to be claimed.
Somewhere in there, Babs said he basically wants someone who's going to be a stable, 5-on-5 player. At this point, it would appear that either Ouellet or Marchenko are a much better bet than Kindl to offer that. We'll see if the brass has the... brass to pull the trigger.
Edit: Regardless of the actual outcome, I really want those three to have the game of their lives today. I want to see what management does when one or more of Ouellet, Marchenko and/or Jensen prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they belong on this team's blueline.
Well, all I am saying is what I seen from the kids the other night just re-enforces my stand on we would not miss Franzen, Helm, Andersson, Q or K or E one bit if they were not on this team. And my point was with that roster if you read the entire thing, IF ALL WERE HEALTHY, I would very happy with a roster that looked like that come opening night.
I disagree with Mule and E. I don't think you replace his goal scoring, or E's defensive skills and PK ability with the kids the team has now. On the other hand, I feel like Andersson, Quincey and Kindl could all be upgraded or swapped for someone of similar value. I'm on the fence with Helm, but with all his nagging injuries and the depth the Wings have at center right now, I think they could get by without him. He's still got a lot of value, but slotting Dats, Weiss, Sheahan and Glendening down the middle works out well. Not to mention, they'll have some good bottom 6 depth at center with Larkin and Turgeon down the road.
It's a big year for Smith - it being a contract year is obvious, but moving forward it's huge for him. I think part of Babs' comments about finding a top 4 guy when discussing the defensive prospects was definitely directed at Smith. Thing is, I hope he's given a fair shake this year. Give the guy special teams minutes and let him play. You're not going to find a future top 4 in Kindl or Quincey - those two are fringe #4-5 defenders at this point, IMO.
I don't care about last year or the year before, Smith can prove what he's going to be this season. Pairing wise, I wish they'd slot him with DD and let Kindl-Quincey run around together. Much better indicator of what Smith is going to mean to the team going forward.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 30 September 2014 - 07:03 PM
1. Yes it does but other teams had injuries too as sad as it is, it's part of the game. In my mind Goose absolutely exploded expecting him to repeat such a performance over the course of a season is unfair. Counting on a fairly healthy roster is nice but at the end of the day older teams are more prone to injuries. I prefer to look at things realistically and by expecting a bad season (for Wings standards) they can only surprise me in a positive way so I guess it will lead to more fun watching the young - hopefully - soon stars play. But given the chance I honestly prefer watching Bruins - Habs, Maple Leafs - Habs, Canucks - Flames , Flames - Leafs or Flames - Bruins I have a feeling those games will be more entertaining than Wings - Florida, Buffalo, Isles ...
2. Tatar completely changed blew my mind not only with his play but also with his unreal mindset (playing after this horrible story) and scoring a goal, so I hope he explodes ala Goose. Yes, Weiss has looked a lot better and kinda bulked up a bit ? but please keep in mind it's only the pre-season. In terms of Goose I fully agree with you if he can score 20 - 25 goalson a regular basis that would be absolutely huge he [Goose] obviously has the talent to do it. The other teams aren't stupid I'm sure they've done their homework and now know how good Tatar, Goose, Danny are which is bad for our young guns but could also mean more space for Z and Pasha.
3. In my mind the Bruins played really bad against the Habs, Rask looked shaky compared to Price and Boston never found a way to replace that Chara - Seidenberg combo but if they meet again I would still bet on the Bruins they are much (or at least should be) a much better and more likeable team.
The defensive core does have more problems than just getting the puck to the forwards and running the powerplay, they aren't phsysical enough. Other teams don't pay a price for standing in front of the net and screening Howard or the monster, do that against Boston and Chara, Lucic and McQuaid will make one thing very clear ...stay there and prepare to get pushed of forced out! Sadly the drop off after Danny, Kronwall and Ericsson is huge and I really don't think Oulett, Sproul or Jensen should be trusted to be heavy hitters or playing QB at their first pro-season (if they even make the team). At the end when I'm looking at the last 3 years as an example it is clear to me that the Wings are rated where they should be, it's up to the team to proof experts, fans and the media wrong. We are just fans we can't control anything so it doesn't matter what we think the team has to perform to their abilities will it be good enough for a 24 playoff berth ? Maybe maybe not but like I said, I prefer to look at iat rationally and of course being bad in a McEichel year isn't the worst thing in the world :-)
I suppose we just have a different perspective. I don't expect the Wings to be wholly successful - I expect them to land somewhere from #4-8 in the East, and I feel like that's realistic. The difference between last year and this year (in theory) is the number of games Red Wings are playing at their highest level. You have your best players playing their best hockey, and it's bound to be a better year. I actually feel like last season was so rough in terms of man games lost that there's nowhere to go but up.
I get the idea of reeling in expectations when it comes to players returning from injury, but Weiss has looked heads and shoulders better, IMO. He had a ton of skating issues last season and looked terribly slow. Even if it's been a couple games, his skating is much more fluid. Not saying he's going to be a 60 point guy, but I think he's going to show some serious improvement.
I agree about him being a passive guy, but that's always been the case. I think the best way Weiss is going to be used is between guys like Mule, Tatar, Nyquist, etc. Give him those trigger men and he'll be given an opportunity to set them up. The thing about other teams catching on to Goose, Tatar, Danny, etc. is that the team has some depth at forward. If this team can run three scoring lines, it gives them that much more offensive punch. If you're taking away space from Goose, you're leaving Mule open. Taking it away from Tatar, and perhaps Jurco gets some room. The depth at forward is something I'm optimistic about on this team.
The Bruins are a good team - I don't think there's any denying that. For as much as you believe they played poorly against the Habs, I also think the Wings played poorly against them. While I think the right team won the series, I really think Detroit could have pushed them a lot more. It was just a flat effort from the team.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 30 September 2014 - 12:25 PM
If someone would pay 1 $ everytime that stupid injury thing is used, I'd be able to buy my own team by now.
The Wings are exactly rated where they should be, even with Babcocks heroic coaching and some young players (Goose, Tatar, Danny !!) taking over they barely made they playoffs. Even healthy this team didn't set the league on fire, the last 3 years have provided a very good example on where this team stands where it's going to be, period.
This is the exact same roster as last year just one year older and it's unfair to expect the young guns to carry the load again, because a. other teams are now aware of their skills - same goes for the MacKinnon's - and they might face better defenders b. sophomore slumps are going to happen wheter we like it or not. Boston exactly and even Chicago showed how you've to play against Wings ...bring a heavy game, intimidate them and be done with it.
1. "That stupid injury thing" impacts losing your high end talent, cohesion on the team and forcing players into unfamiliar situations. I'd say this team was lucky as hell that Goose responded the way he did. When you dress a full, healthy team, that depth gives you better chances up and down the line-up. You build on success and chemistry night in and night out, and it allows your team to get on a roll. When there's a constant rash of injuries, that kind of throws a wrench in things, wouldn't you think?
2. Yes, this is the same roster as last season. Thing is, it's also a healthier one. The biggest issue facing the older players is the wear and tear, but it's not like you're going to see a significant drop in ability for Datsyuk - I think he's already shown he looks better. Weiss looks much better, even though he's been given lumps of coal for line mates. As far as the kids carrying the team, I don't see it that way at all. With a healthy team (kind of important) the kids are playing against weaker competition. In saying that, Sheahan and Tatar have looked fantastic in the preseason, IMO. Nyquist isn't going to score goals at the same pace he did last season, but 20-25 isn't out of the question. Where some guys may have sophomore slumps, others may break out (I feel this way about Tatar) and have even better seasons. One year of older guys slowing down can also be a year of exponential growth for a younger ones - it's all about perspective.
What I will concede here is that we have the exact same defensive core, and if it's going to be used the same way it was last season ,THAT is a problem. They're not all that great at generating offense and getting the puck up ice quickly. If there are question marks anywhere on this team, I'd say it lies with the defense.
3. Yes, the Bruins intimidated Montreal all the way to losing to them in game 7. Speed kills - as do smart decisions with the puck. Detroit didn't do that and that's why they lost - they played poorly. They didn't play intelligent, fast-paced hockey. Again, going back to what I see as the big issue on this team, it's getting the puck up the ice in a timely manner from the defense. I still say that's their Achilles heel, and something that really needed to be addressed in the offseason. I think it's part of why this team hasn't made their next round of cuts - guys like Ouellet, Sproul, and now Jensen last night are turning Babs' head.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 29 September 2014 - 01:10 PM
I'm not sure those lines necessarily reflect ice time, but I guess we'll see. The Nose line had a heck of a game the other day, so I could see them getting some more time. On a side note, I like that Cally's getting plenty of games in. It means they're at least giving him a good look, I think.
From the Khan article for today's game:
Defensemen Jonathan Ericsson and Brendan Smith did not skate today due to groin/hip flexor issues. They are listed as day-to-day.
Smith was supposed to play tonight. Now he'll be replaced.
These five defensemen skated in the gameday group:
Xavier Ouellet-Alexei Marchenko
Aaron Rome-Nick Jensen
So Sproul is healthy enough to play? I'd wager Backman takes Smith's spot and plays with Sproul, as has been the case during most of TC and the preseason. That's basically GR's defense core, outside of Paetsch and Evans (and minus Rome).
Posted by Jesusberg
on 29 September 2014 - 01:05 PM
I want him to stay, but I'm not nearly as opposed to a change as I was 2-3 seasons ago. I think there's something to the shelf life argument, and it's something Babs has mentioned himself. Not just players tuning him out (younger, new faces on the team combat that), but the idea that staying in one place too long can make a guy stagnant.
In no way am I saying I want Babcock gone - I just don't think I'd be as torn up about it as I would have been a few seasons back. Change isn't the worst thing, sometimes.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 27 September 2014 - 03:29 PM
That doesn't make any sense. Lashoff is a plug and Kindl was terrible last season. If one of the four prospects is better, why wouldn't you at least start them on the third pairing? Honestly, Ouellet already looks like he would be an upgrade from either Kindl or Lashoff.
Who are any of the prospects going to knock out of the top-four so early in their careers? You already have Kronwall, E, DeKeyser and possibly Smith plus the four million dollar man too. Let them take Kindl or Lashoff's job and grow into larger roles for the future.
The defense is bad. Why would you want to try the same group as last season? The only potential for development is going to come from Smith. I don't expect all four to make the team now, but one of them should get a shot.
Babcock even says the team is looking for someone who can move the puck. The best players will play? If Kindl isn't SUPPOSED to be a puck mover, what is he supposed to be? I can understand keeping Lashoff as the #7 guy - he's got a low cap hit and you don't want a prospect sitting on the bench for the season. At this point Kindl is a below average offensive defender, Quincey is a below average defensive defender and Smith is an average offensive defender, with possible upside. Ouellet has essentially looked better than all of them in his, albeit short, time with the team thus far.
Don't pee in my boots and tell me it's raining, Mike.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 26 September 2014 - 11:33 AM
I think there's a difference between wanting a guy to fail, and thinking he's going to fail. Do I want Dan Cleary to have a 20-20 year and work on the PK? Absolutely, but I don't think that's going to happen. I think sometimes people get so caught up in disliking the decisions that a team makes, that they turn their focus to the player instead. I know I'm guilty of that (*cough* Quincey *cough*).
As far as the defense goes, I think Quincey is safe for now. If anyone should be worried, I think it's Kindl.
Ouellet's right on his heels, I'd say. So far he's looked completely in place on this team's blueline, and he played over 24 minutes last night. Perhaps it's just me, but I think Ouellet's is way ahead of the other three guys vying for spots right now. Sproul looked amazing on the PP, but definitely has to shore up his work in the defensive zone. Backman will need this season to transition to NA play, but once he does, he'll be very reliable. Marchenko is worrying me a bit - I hope his ankle injury doesn't prove to be an issue. He's looked a bit off so far, IMO.