Here's the latest edition of the Top 20. I'm not going to call the Fall edition a "disaster", but let's just say I think this list is much improved over that one. Comments, criticisms and discussions are always welcome. I have a feeling the points of disagreement on this list may be Tvrdon, Jensen and Marshall.
Also, Emmerton and Mursak remain on the list as prospects... so while many of you might think they're no longer prospects, they're still included per HF guidelines.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 21 February 2012 - 04:42 PM
People are going to grumble about this because of the situation, I think. If we were adding a 26-year-old RFA with 30-35 point potential and he DIDN'T have a history with the team, people would likely be more receptive to the idea.
I don't think the Wings are in a position to move a top 4 defender, whether he's leaving or not. The teams looking for a pending UFA, veteran defender are teams who are going to be in the post-season. We'd essentially be giving the competition a boost. The game is so tight now that even the smallest bounce could make or break a playoff series. What if that "bounce" is Stuart scooping the puck off the goal line.
Even if we do lose Stuart for "nothing" in the off-season, we gained a solid defender for 5 years for a 2nd and a 4th. Smith is going to step onto the team next season, and who knows who we might pluck off free agency. The safest bet here is that the team is going to keep Stuart for a run at the cup. At most, I think that maybe they can sell his rights for a low-end draft pick before July 1st.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 22 November 2011 - 05:03 PM
It doesn't have much to do with Commodore, really. I mean even if he is waived, that means one of Ericsson or Kindl is rotating in and out with Smith. Unless Smith is getting regular ice time, there's no point in keeping him up here to sit as a healthy scratch for periods of time when he can play top minutes in the AHL.
I can't see him being given a job over Ericsson or Kindl, (not that his play hasn't shown he deserves it) because it's just not generally how the Wings do things. Could surprise me though, as I'm already a bit surprised they're keeping him up now. The question is, is he as good/better than Ericsson or Kindl in the eyes of the Red Wings brass?
Posted by Jesusberg
on 21 November 2011 - 03:13 PM
1) I don't think that Cleary is a 40-goal scorer, nor that he's Selke-caliber. I do believe that he's good for at least 20 goals per year and that he's a very solid all-around player.
2) Datsyuk's two goals against L.A. had no bearing whatsoever on Cleary being on or off the ice, and nor did his assists last night. You might as well say that Cleary being on the ice with Stuart was why the latter scored two goals last night; it would make just as little sense.
I'm not about to say that Brunnstrom/Nyquist is better than Cleary, but when a guy is struggling like Danny is right now, maybe bump him down a few lines to give him some different looks. Cleary can't finish right now, so maybe giving someone else a shot with better finishing skills RIGHT NOW would be an idea with some merit. Even on his current line with Z he looks a little lost to me, though he's definitely trying (had like 7 shots the other night). Could just be that a change of pace could help him return to form.
I'm not with anyone here saying Cleary is garbage. He's having a bad year is all. He's showed he's got finishing skills, but he's definitely snake bitten this year. Don't think the pre-season injury has helped him either. Maybe putting him on the 3rd line for a bit with Helm would give him some new looks and push him.
Posted by Jesusberg
on 09 November 2011 - 05:40 PM
I don't understand that comment. Is DRWs "slowing down", or are teams around the league getting better? I'm leaning more towards the latter.
Fair point. Other teams are catching up in the cap era, but the Red Wings also aren't getting younger. To be honest, I'm worried about some of the players who will take the team over in the future.
Also, management has been drafting bigger, grittier, more physical players w/top 6 potential the last couple years. Last draft I thought DRWs did a great job drafting some high-potential defensemen.
Grittier forwards with top 6 potential, such as? The issue here is, are these guys going to be good enough to make up for the loss of truly skilled players. I assume your main focus here is Sheahan. I'm not sold on him. This is the first year he's put up some point production in the NCAA. Aside from him, Aubry and Callahan pop into my head. That's great, but I'm not sure they fit into that mold. Tvrdon from the 2011 class comes to mind, but I'd like to see if he can remain healthy too.
I agree with you 100% on the defensemen, though. I'm very excited about Sproul. Ouellet is struggling a bit, but Nedomlel is a pleasant surprise. Of course, there's always Smith too, but I really think he needs to calm down on the bad penalties. I'm not just talking about the pre-season hit, but his total penalty minutes and lack of discipline.
I mean logically, what could management have done differently to make this team better? Trade our high-level prospects, draft picks, and future for a 1 - 2 year run for the cup, then rebuild like Edmonton is doing now and Penguins did before that? I'd rather Holland do what he's doing. Keep building while staying on top.
I don't think we have to unload everything, but one thing I think this team CAN do is make a play for a #1 defender. I'm not 100% sold on Smith. I like our forward depth (Nyquist, Tatar, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen), but I'm worried about our blue line. Guys like Sproul and Ouellet are going to pop up several years down the line. Holland doesn't give up picks and prospects (on reputation) but I wouldn't mind seeing him break the bank once for a bona fide defenseman.
I apologize for using you as a focal point for the argument I was making.
No need to apologize, I just don't think I was reaching the levels of cynicism seen elsewhere in this thread.
Let's wait a couple more games and see if splitting Pav and Hank really works, and then you can say he should have tried it sooner. Let's wait until Bert is actually getting top 6 time before critisizing Babs for giving it to him.
Cleary scored 26 goals last year, he's at least shooting a lot this year. Who else on the team is playing so well that they deserve that role over him?
Bert was getting some top 6 time before the flu hit. I can't cite exactly how many games, but I'm pretty sure since Dats and Pavs have been split up. He was on a line with Zetterberg and Mule and looked terrible (in my opinion). I'm just tired of his errant passing. I think he belongs on that 3rd line, and as lazy as Happy can be, I'd rather see him in the top 6 than Bert.
As far as Cleary goes, I've always been a huge fan of Cleary. I just don't think it suits him to be the focal point of a line. If the Z-Dats-Cleary line would have clicked early on, everything would have been great. Now is that on Cleary? No, Dats and Z should be playing better, and allowed Cleary to play his role (puck retrieval, screening, tips).
Right now, Cleary is the focal shooter on that line and it just doesn't suit him. Datsyuk has Homer and Cleary flanking him when I think he should have some kind of pure shooter with him. I think he at least deserves Flip, but then you're breaking up that productive second line. This is where maybe Hudler comes in. I don't think he was that bad (and I've picked on him for everthing). Right now it seems to me like Datsyuk is having issues hanging onto the puck. Throw Huds in there to see if that line can possess the puck a little more, because handling the puck doesn't suit Homer or Cleary very well. To clarify, it's not necessarily about who deserves it most to me, but what combinations work and how to form some chemistry for the first line.