I think the bottom line right now is that the perceived price for Green is a wee bit high - management (specifically Trotz) is maintaining that Green factors into their future plans. Posturing or not, it's being done to give the guy more value. I think the only way Detroit gets him right now is by prying him away from Washington via overpayment. If that means moving Tatar+, or any of the bigger names, count me out for now.
If Green could be had for, let's say, Andersson, Pulkkinen + 2nd that would be the maximum that I would want to pay, personally. And giving up that 2nd is scary, as Detroit is already without a 3rd rounder. That may not be enough in Washington's eyes, and it likely isn't right now. I actually like what Green brings, but he comes with a lot of risks - risks that should bring his price tag down. The issue is that the Caps don't have to move him right now, and Detroit is clearly desperate for a RH, offensive defender. At this moment, Washington has the leverage. IMO, it would be silly to make a move for Green until/if his price goes down some.
1. Discussing the Legwand trade isn't "beating a dead horse". Around here, bringing Franzen into every single discussion/post would be a much better example of that. The trade happened in March, and is comparable to the situation the team is in now. There is going to be a fear that Holland will overpay in a trade for quite some time - a fear that has some legitimacy for those who see the Jarnkrok move as an overpayment.
2. Who the hell said Jarnkrok was bad defensively? That's a load of bull. The Z comparisons were there, and Blashill was quoted throughout the year saying that Jarnkrok was solid defensively. Just a quick Google search shows, “He’s such a complete player, so, so well-rounded in his game, that he never cheats at all offensively,” said Griffins head coach Jeff Blashill.
3. No one, not a single person can say whether or not Jarnkrok would have been given a chance to play for the Red Wings this season. He was moved because management was desperate for a center, but who knows what would have happened if the team kept him around. It's impossible to say what would have happened for certain - it's not common sense, it's speculation.
I agree with you, but from what I understand a lot of Frk's problems stem from being bad positionally and not being a good enough skater to make up for it. Jurco has good skating at least so the learning curve was shorter. As I understand it, Frk (by virtue of playing with MacKinnon and Drouin) had a lot of success without ever learning how to be positionally sound. But now that his line can't steamroll people he's finding he's got neither the positioning nor the wheels to make up for it.
I think Blash will get him going. But he's basically learning the "correct" way to play hockey at a MUCH higher level than most guys do.
To be honest, I'm not sure if Frk's ever going to get his positioning together, but I do think he can fit into a niche if he puts in the proper off-season work. I agree that he benefited from his teammates, and his skating and lackluster two-way play hurt him. I still think he's going to have a better season than last - although, I do believe that he's going to have to impress Blashill right off the bat to get minutes.
If I'm Frk, I bust my hide in the gym and turn into a puck hound. He's still got that wicked shot, but I think he's the kind of guy who'd be smart to become a "piano puller" on a line - dig for pucks in the corner, get in front of the net, etc. He's never going to be the catalyst on a line, but I think he could be a good complimentary piece/PP guy.
Lol I'm sure you must hate how well Pulkkinen is doing...
I'm still hoping Frk can turn things around this season. I think he will have another slow start but finally find his game half way through this season. I predict he finishes this season with around 50 points with the Griffs...
Jurco had a rough rookie season as a pro, too. While Frk is a different player, I imagine he'll have a much better season this year.
To me "the streak" is a lot like kissing your sister.
You couldn't have gone with, "is a lot like taking your cousin to prom" instead?
EDIT: If the Red Wings' starter offer actually does involve Ferraro, then I'm optimistic the two could meet somewhere around Andersson, Frk + 2nd. I'd be really happy with that, but I fear that Frk could be "upgraded" to Pulkkinen. Regardless, bringing in a top 4 guy who's going to quarterback the PP without giving up Mantha, Nyquist, Jurco or Tatar would be a huge win in my eyes.
Not re-signing Legwand is the least of this team's problems. A $3 million dollar center isn't an insurance policy - it a 2nd/3rd line guy. All the C's going down last season, despite how injury plagued this team has been the past number of years, was a total freak occurrence. As has been stated, the team grabbed a few guys (Porter, Miele) for center depth. They're nowhere near as good as Legwand, but with a healthy line-up, Legwand doesn't fit into this team.
How often were people around here complaining about Samuelsson sitting on the bench while earning $3 million last year? A good portion of that was because he was taking up a roster spot, but you just don't have that kind of money sitting out of the line-up for good chunks of the season. Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening and/or Z and Mule if necessary... as others have said, we have solid center depth right now. There just wasn't a fit for Legwand here.
Does his weight affect his game? Does he get passed easily? Is he abnormally slow? I guess I hear the fat accusations but no one seems to discuss his actual playing ability. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
I wouldn't mind the guy - he's a good offensive defenseman/forward hybrid. Although, I think there are other serviceable options with less baggage.
I don't think they part with Jurco. He's the big bodied power forward every team wants. Sheahan was just signed, and Holland doesn't do sign and trades. It's gotta be Tatar, Kindl, Andersson, maybe Helm, who while he's an impact player might be slightly redundant now that we have Sheahan.
Agree, and I think Helm would be an attractive piece in Winnipeg's eyes. Though, I'd always hoped he'd be part of a Bogosian deal, not a Byfuglien one.
An entire forum devoted to hating Byfuglien. I don't get it. He has a fitness problem. Or did, I don't know if he still does. But I see things like "rapper wannabe" and "rap sheet" which makes me wonder if its some weird race-based judgement. I mean, his rap sheet is what, a drunken boating charge? He doesn't seem that bad to me. Especially if he is turning his fitness level around.
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I remember the fitness issues, but I agree with the race-based judgement stuff. That really seems to have no bearing on his play on the ice.
If he really is a rap artist, I do believe it would be "2Phat".
You know, it really amazes me how quickly everyone seems to just want to fire KH and blow up the ship. And because of what exactly? We re-signed a guy who played well for us in the second half and has a proven track record of being a solid 3-4 D man. So we didn't sign any big name free agents, and? Did we really want Boyle here for 3 years? No. Orpik for 5 years and $5.5m? No. Niskanen for 7 years? I didn't. Stralman for 5 years? No. The list goes on and on. Guys who are cashing in on one or two good years (besides Boyle) and using the thin market to drive up their prices. It is frankly, a joke. The worst thing the wings could have done was to sign someone like that for a massive term which locks us in, blocking the path for 1 or 2 kids when they are ready either this season or next.
Why is it that we are so quick to lambast something that we don't like, yet it takes 100 things to satisfy us? I mean, for crying out loud, we're not the Leafs. It's not like we haven't won a cup in the last 50 years. And also, it's not even like we're not competitive anymore. This team was a playoff team. Granted, the last 2 years have been touch and go, but 2 years ago we took the cup champs to 7 and had them on the ropes. In that 2012-13 roster, there were 26 players who were part of this seasons roster. 26!!!!!!!! And this season, most were injured, and yet somehow, due to some strong play of guys who will form the future of this team, we made it in.
There is, quite clearly, a rebuild in progress at the moment. And it amazes me how people can't seem to get excited about the future prospects of Dekeyser, Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco, Sproul, Marchenko, Ouellet, Mantha, Mrazek. Combined with a healthy D and Z and the other GOOD pieces we have on this team. So what's changed? Why has everyone become so despondent, when really, I think our time is coming right around the corner. Maybe not this year, but the year after for sure. If our kids continue trending upwards, we'll be right up there. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to ignore the obvious positives that are emanating from this teams future and insist on throwing everything out in the trash just because we struck out on 1 day of the year is, in my eyes, nuts.
Honestly, I don't disagree with you on several of these points. However, in my opinion, there's very little to like about signing Kyle Quincey. Many people (including myself) were advocating a stop-gap, someone to let the kids slip into the line-up without them being overwhelmed. At the very least, those stop-gaps brought something extra to the table - Boyle and Gilbert could help the PP, Stralman and Morris the PK. What does Quincey bring? Dead serious, I don't have a real answer to that question, no matter how hard I try.
To call the guy a solid #3-4 defender just doesn't ring true to me. He doesn't put up points, he doesn't hit or block many shots. He takes several, poorly timed penalties. To his credit, the guy's swept a few pucks out from right in front of the goal line, but all in all, I'd say Kyle Quincey is just... there. He exists and has the physical endurance to play "top 4 minutes" on this team, and he was given a raise?
I think the real issue behind the signing is that it comes off as a panic move - it feels like it was made to just barely cling on, to "play it safe". I think playing it safe would have been grabbing Boyle, Gilbert, Morris, etc. I know those guys didn't want to be here, wanted term, etc. but grabbing Kyle Quincey strikes me as playing it scared. It reminds me of grabbing Legwand because Holland needed this team to squeeze into the post-season.
I see the positives going forward - I see the youth of this team and the defensive core that is shaping up. What I also see is that Kyle Quincey is a bane on this team's blueline - he's not going to pass anything onto the kids, and he won't be adding anything positive to this team's defense corps for the next two seasons. He doesn't ruin this team's future - he just wades in the water doing nothing around it.
No offense, but did you watch Quincey at all this past season? The guy is a void. He makes his partner worse. And the GM just paid him 4.25 million.
I was fine with standing pat - I wanted Boyle, but we missed out. When every one was saying, "Niskanen or bust", I was promoting several less popular options. Heck, even though they didn't get Niskanen, Boyle, Stralman, etc. Holland essentially told Gilbert to go sign with Montreal. The next best alternative is an exhaustive list of options, and somewhere near the bottom is "re-sign Quincey". It's an awful move.