Jump to content

Jesusberg's Photo


Member Since 14 Mar 2009
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:34 PM

#2542495 Weiss

Posted by Jesusberg on 19 October 2014 - 01:23 PM

Even just 5 games in, it's getting tough for me to see where Weiss is going to slip into the line-up, barring any injuries. 1st and 4th lines are performing very well, The Kid line just looks snakebitten, but they're getting chances. 3rd line could use a boost, at times. Nestrasil shows flashes on one play, then shows some growing pains the next, IMO. I wonder about Helm's health... he seems a step off to me right now. Really, once Datsyuk gets back, I have no idea where and when Weiss gets to jump in.

Having Joker as the 4th line RW has allowed him to slot into C on the 2nd PK unit, which as a whole, has been fantastic. I had very low expectations for Andersson, but I have to admit, he looks much faster and is doing some solid work on the 4th line and PK.

#2540953 Myers close to become a wing?

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 October 2014 - 07:36 PM




First off I would like to say that I am in no way starting a fight or crapping on your opinions, but I would sincerely like to know how you assess Tatar to "top out" at a 50-60 point scorer.  Was it from his one full season in the NHL?


To put it in perspective:


Datsyuk' stats from his first season were 70GP 11-24-35


Tatar's stats were 73GP 19-20-39


Those stats are pretty similar, and I'm pretty sure no one thought Datsyuk would turn out to be our franchise center and arguably one of the most talented/innovative payers in the game.  I am not comparing the two in skill, but my point remains.  I know it feels like we've been talking about Tats forever, but last season was the first time he suited up for over 20 games and, honestly, he was pretty impressive IMO.  I'd say give it another full season (or two) before we cap him off as a second line winger.   


I'm not saying that its not a realistic assessment or that it won't turn out that way, but I don't feel like there's really been enough time to accurately gauge the player he will become.


My personal opinion?  I am on the same boat with some others on this forum who would consider him an "untouchable" (barring some crazy deal, of course) and a valuable asset to this team and its future.  


Honestly, as far as Myers goes, if it's gonna cost us the likes of Tatar, Jurco, or Sheahan plus a pick and a high level prospect, I hope Holland just walks away.  Would I love him and his desperately needed right-handed shot on this team?  Hell yes.  But at the cost rumors are claiming it would take to get him?  No way.  I would rather have Sproul/ Marchenko/Jenson on this team, before trading one of them for Myers.


First, the whole point was that I wouldn't move him for Myers - I do see him as a piece this team needs (ie: value relative to defenders on the team). I understand his value to the team.

I see Tatar as more of a "catch and release" type player, rather than someone who is going to drive the play. If he can put up 60 points, he's still within the top 60 players in the league in terms of point production. I don't think that's insulting, or cutting him short. I think he's going to make an excellent complimentary winger. He's got great hands in tight, and releases the puck as well as anyone on this team.


I do think, however, that he's going to wind up being a 2nd line player on this team. I see Nyquist, Mantha and Jurco as player who all have higher ceilings than he does. Perhaps I'm wrong, and that's fine... but I really do see him as a complimentary guy. I think he's in the same company as Ryan O'Reilly, Voracek and Oshie - all great players, but maybe not ones regarded as superstars.

I do agree about the small sample to judge his potential. Considering there hasn't been enough time to accurately gauge his production in the future, I'd say there's no way to say he'd top out as a 1st line 70-80 point guy, either. Basically, I just feel that what I see from him hints at him being a complimentary winger, not a superstar. Either way, it's all conjecture at this point.

#2540838 Jeff Petry; trade between us and oilers

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 October 2014 - 02:46 PM

Unless he doesn't get playing time here so he welcomes the chance to play somewhere....


If someone sat you on the sidelines of their team, would you agree to go to that icy tundra of frozen hell, or wait until an (sadly, very likely) injury occurred on your current team? I'd have my feet up, smiling in the press box before I set foot in Edmonton. Heck, at least you can get those little drinks with umbrellas with them in Florida, and there's no one in the stands to bother you.

#2540817 Myers close to become a wing?

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 October 2014 - 12:44 PM

I like Tatar and all. But realistically he will be maybe a 50-60 point player, which is pretty good. But if you could get a giant dman for Tatar that could possibly put up similar numbers why wouldn't you?


First off, the whole basis of me not wanting to move a forward is more about their value relative to the team compared to defenders. Right now, we're sitting pretty with Datsyuk, Z and to a lesser extent Mule. When those guys are done, there's a big drop-off in talent. In my eyes, Detroit needs to hang onto their potential top 6 guys for now. On the other hand, they've got guys like DeKeyser and Smith on the team now, with Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul, Backman and Jensen on the way.

Regardless of that, my opinion of these two players is that one guy is on the upswing, while one is on a downswing. Myers had a fantastic rookie season, but aside from that every thing has pretty much gone downhill from there. I get that he's on the Sabres, but there hasn't been much positive to say about Myers in a long while. Anytime you read Sabres fans discussing Myers (outside of when they want a king's ransom in a trade) they mention his mobility issues and poor decisions with the puck. There's a big IF involved in Myers turning his game around in Detroit.

When I look at Tatar, I do see a guy who tops out at that 50-60 point mark, but I also see a feisty player willing to go to the hard parts of the ice. He plays bigger than he is, and the guy exudes passion. When I think of Tatar and his potential, it's not a matter of "if" but when. I'd rather keep the commodity I know about over the one I'm not sure is going to return to form. 

#2540796 Myers close to become a wing?

Posted by Jesusberg on 15 October 2014 - 11:04 AM

Personally, I wouldn't move any forwards named Mantha, Tatar, Nyquist or Sheahan in a deal for Myers. I feel like he's a bit of a project, and I wouldn't want this team to gamble assets up front to see if Myers can turn it around. If it were a package of say, Pulkkinen, Backman/Jensen, Weiss/Quincey/Kindl (for cap relief) and a 1st, I might be more receptive to it, but I think Buffalo believes they can get a much better return for him.


I just don't see the risk-reward working out on this deal for Detroit.

#2540636 Myers close to become a wing?

Posted by Jesusberg on 14 October 2014 - 01:12 PM

Where have you heard that Mantha, plus our first, plus... would be involved in a trade for Myers? It seems like every trade that we're "linked to", Mantha is the guy that other teams want. The problem is, there is no way they're getting him. Mantha is as untouchable a prospect we've had in a long time. He's not going anywhere unless it gets us an already elite player in the NHL still in his prime, which isn't going to happen either. I don't think Myers is a terrible player by any means but I don't think he is what this team needs right now, especially with all the other kids knocking on the door...


Per Elliotte Friedman, a few days back:






According to Elliotte Friedman, the Sabres requested Anthony Mantha back from the Red Wings in a trade for Tyler Myers.

Impacts: "The Red Wings stopped there," Friedman said. Perhaps the Red Wings wouldve considered if they were acquiring the Myers from a few years ago. As is, Mantha, the 20th pick in the 2013 draft, is loaded with potential, scoring 57 times and notching 120 points in the QMJHL last season. While Myers, 24, has been a shadow of the player he was his rookie season when he recorded 48 points.


Not sure if anything has changed since, or if McKenzie is just discussing information from a few days back.

#2539715 Kindl on the block

Posted by Jesusberg on 10 October 2014 - 11:12 AM

Solid....doesn't mean he is good.  If Q remains invisible all season, that would be a positive for him. Doesn't mean he is worth keeping.  But anyhow, my point was, of the D, they were the two worst and they made some boneheaded plays. That's all. And we wouldn't miss either of them.  IMO we wouldn't miss E either, but some folks are sold by him. That's fine, because its not like we could replace the entire D with rookies, but Q and K are more than replaceable with XO and Jensen.



Back to Kindl by himself, he could be traded for a pick or futures, his roster spot is more valuable than anything he could bring in return.


-Again, no they weren't. If anything, Ericsson was the worst on the ice last night.


-We would most definitely miss Ericsson. He had a rough game, but he's most definitely our best PK guy. No one in the prospect system is going to replace his positioning and size. He may not throw big checks, but he muscles guys around in front and behind the net better than anyone on this team right now.


-Kindl is replaceable by Ouellet, but if Quincey can play like he did last night, why would you replace him right now? The team still needs to find out what they've got in Smith and, to a lesser extent, DeKeyser. I dislike Quincey as much as anyone else, but if he's going to be a solid minute eater, you don't move him out until you've got guys who can play at a consistent level night in and night out. Right now, when one guy struggles, you swap them. This team has three top 4 guys, and two fringe #5's. You don't just throw two rookies into that situation.

#2539692 Kindl on the block

Posted by Jesusberg on 10 October 2014 - 09:14 AM

Quincey was solid, and that's an accurate way to describe his game last night. Smith and Kronwall were good, DeKeyser was great.

There are varying degrees of positive play. You balance out the positive things that players do with any gaffes they make. Smith and Kronner made some real solid plays, and maybe made one or two small mistakes., DeKeyser looked great all around, IMO, and didn't make any noticeable errors. You know who else didn't make any noticeable errors? KFQ, because if he DID... if he did, you better believe LGW would be all over that. So yes, he looked solid. He didn't stand out with anything special, but he didn't make any big mistakes, either. Solid.

#2539085 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by Jesusberg on 08 October 2014 - 01:33 PM


But all those teams are a lot better than us with a much deeper offensive pool  So whatever they're doing, they're doing it right.    


Abby in the top 6 is a perfect indication of why this team has fallen from contender status.  Guy works hard on every shift, but it's like putting lipstick on a pig.  It shouldn't be there and he shouldn't be getting big minutes with skilled players.  


To be fair, I wouldn't want to put a lipstick wearing pig on their line, either. Like I said in my previous post, I hate Abdelkader there. What I'm pointing out is that people going on about him being in the top 6 - the idea of the top 6 is being weeded out all over. Given the current roster, I'd much rather see something along the lines of:




I think that works the same way - using Jurco as a puck-retrieval/net presence guy. You're still rolling three scoring lines, and keeping pairings that have been proven to work in the past. Problem is, Babcock won't trust Jurco in that situation, and Holland doesn't want to foot the bill next season after his numbers (in theory) blow up.

For the record, I think the team falling out of contender status has more to do with hanging onto assets that aren't of value anymore, and not filling in voids on the blueline. I believe that misusing Abdelkader is an issue, but hardly the most pressing one.

#2539080 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by Jesusberg on 08 October 2014 - 01:12 PM

As much as most of us can't stand Abdelkader being in the top 6, I really think it's a total shift in the NHL in general. Teams are rolling out top 9's now. Look around at the lines for other teams. Anaheim uses Matt Beleskey on their 2nd line, and they used Pat Maroon on their top line last season. Los Angeles has Tanner Pearson on the 2nd, while Justin Williams (who won the Conn Smythe) is on their 3rd line. Chicago's rolling out a Saad-Shaw-Kane line.

Is Abdelkader better or worse than some of those guys? I don't know, and I don't like him on that line, flat out. I do know that there's a shift in how teams are rolling out scoring lines. Teams aren't top heavy anymore - they're trying to run three balanced scoring lines. For better or worse, Abs is going to stay in that top 9 somewhere. Detroit's going to utilize guys like he and Helm to fill in spots on line where they battle for pucks and play in front of the net.

#2539070 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by Jesusberg on 08 October 2014 - 12:49 PM

What I find funny about this situation is that the one guy Weiss kind of clicked with during the preseason was Nestrasil. Obviously didn't put up the numbers, but I thought they had some bright spots. I think a big part of this, not that it has to do with Weiss specifically, has to do with the Kid Line playing so well. You can send those guys out to be a 2nd line.

Honestly, even when Datsyuk returns, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mule-Weiss/Helm-Gus get some sheltered minutes. The Kid line has been a huge positive this preseason, in my eyes.


Edit: Oh, and as of right now, Smith-DeKeyser is still a pairing. That's also good... right?

#2538974 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by Jesusberg on 07 October 2014 - 09:27 PM

I agree with this, and if Smith was on the PP, I wouldn't want him as the high defender.  But if Kronwall or Dekeyser was the high defender, Smith could work one of the walls.


I agree that Smith as the high defender could spell trouble, but the right side half boards... he could pull off what DeKeyser did the other night with Nestrasil. I think Smith has the offensive instincts to play well in that position, but we'll see what happens.

#2538832 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by Jesusberg on 07 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

I know people are mad that XO isn't on the team, but if he did make the final cut wouldn't that mean that either Jurco would be sent down or Nestrasil would be exposed to waivers?


I can guarantee that if Jurco had started in GR so that XO could be in the lineup all the same folks would be complaining and calling for Holland/Babs' heads.


Eh, I could be in the minority here, but I think this team's forwards are a strong point. The biggest need in my eyes is on the back end, having guys who can play big minutes and get the puck up ice. Nestrasil had a heck of a camp, but if it means getting Ouellet up here permanently, I'd risk him on waivers. While it might not be popular, I'd even take him here over Jurco - I really think they need to bolster the blueline more than anything else.

As it stands, I'm happy Jurco is here, and I'm happy for Nestrasil... but a Datsyuk return and Alfredsson signing could change that. They need to shed a combination of Andersson and Kindl/Lashoff, difficult as it may be.

#2538817 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by Jesusberg on 07 October 2014 - 02:30 PM

The roster moves have pissed people off so much that they're experiencing hallucinations involving talking dogs. Way to go, Kenny.

#2538780 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by Jesusberg on 07 October 2014 - 01:37 PM


Well, I don't think it's inconceivable that the team could have kept around one or two defensive prospects to fill out the points on the PP.  At which time you'd only need six forwards.  And we've at least six who are much more qualified to do that job than Helm.  Sadly, however, we've apparently got exactly two defensemen that Babs feels confident enough to put on the powerplay (and one of them is Dekeyser). 


Justify it however you want.  If you're comfortable with Darren Helm on your powerplay I don't know what to say to you. 


Speaking of, why is it that Babs would rather have Helm and Nestrasil on the powerplay than Smith?  I thought he was supposed to get a shot this year?


Which is what I really don't understand. I get that DeKeyser looked good on the Nestrasil goal, but when was Smith even given the opportunity during the preseason? They're using the 1-3-1 formation on the PP, but you can slot Mule in front on the 1st and Nestrasil/Sheahan in front on the 2nd. Smith and DeKeyser could work point and the right half boards... but I suppose Helm is a better option... for some reason.

Between this and the comments made by Babcock earlier about Holland getting two votes, I swear some of the decisions made by these two are to spite each other. It just makes zero sense at times. Zero.