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#2322944 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Opie on 30 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

Its hard to compare someone who played in the 80s to someone who played in the 90s, just saying.

If Fedorov had played in the NHL during the 80's, he'd have 2000 pts. Yzerman's stats are just the product of playing in a crappy defense time period. Are you going to tell me Bernie Nichols is better than Fedorov?

The Axe:
Google and Hockey DB are your friends, research things before you just say something. I know the internet is mostly filled with Porn, bad journalism, and stupid pop up ads, but it has useful parts too.

Now this is what has always confused me about this argument; the stats!
So what you are saying is Stevie must have scored 3/4 of his goals in the 7 years he played in the 80s? (I know exaggeration, but you get the point)

Ok lets be fair to the Feds camp on this one and just compare years they played together on the same team, would that be better?

No Ana feds, no 1980s Yzerman stats.

Career totals from 1990-91 season until 2002-03

Sergei Fedorov gp g a pt pims plus/minus
Playoff gp g a pts pim
1990-91 Detroit Red Wings NHL 77 31 48 79 66 11
-Playoffs 7 1 5 6 4
1991-92 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 32 54 86 72 26
-11 5 5 10 8
1992-93 Detroit Red Wings NHL 73 34 53 87 72 33
-7 3 6 9 23
1993-94 Detroit Red Wings NHL 82 56 64 120 34 48
-7 1 7 8 6
1994-95 Detroit Red Wings NHL 42 20 30 50 24 6 17
-7 17 24 6
1995-96 Detroit Red Wings NHL 78 39 68 107 48 49
-19 2 18 20 10
1996-97 Detroit Red Wings NHL 74 30 33 63 30 29
-20 8 12 20 12
1997-98 Detroit Red Wings NHL 21 6 11 17 25 10
-22 10 10 20 12
1998-99 Detroit Red Wings NHL 77 26 37 63 66
-9 10 1 8 9 8
1999-00 Detroit Red Wings NHL 68 27 35 62 22 8
-9 4 4 8 4
2000-01 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 32 37 69 40 12
-6 2 5 7 0
2001-02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 81 31 37 68 36 20
-23 5 14 19 20
2002-03 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 36 47 83 52 15
-4 1 2 3 0
Totals 908 400 554 954 587 276 162 50 113 163 113

Steve Yzerman
1990-91 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 51 57 108 34 -2
-Playoffs7 3 3 6 4
1991-92 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 45 58 103 64 26
-11 3 5 8 12
1992-93 Detroit Red Wings NHL 84 58 79 137 44 33
-7 4 3 7 4
1993-94 Detroit Red Wings NHL 58 24 58 82 36 11
-3 1 3 4 0
1994-95 Detroit Red Wings NHL 47 12 26 38 40 6
-15 4 8 12 0
1995-96 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 36 59 95 64 29
-18 8 12 20 4
1996-97 Detroit Red Wings NHL 81 22 63 85 78 22
-20 7 6 13 4
1997-98 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 24 45 69 46 3
-22 6 18 24 22
1998-99 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 29 45 74 42 8
-10 9 4 13 0
1999-00 Detroit Red Wings NHL 78 35 44 79 34 28
-8 0 4 4 0
2000-01 Detroit Red Wings NHL 54 18 34 52 18 4
-1 0 0 0 0
2001-02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 52 13 35 48 18 11
-23 6 17 23 10
2002-03 Detroit Red Wings NHL 16 2 6 8 8 6
-4 0 1 1 2
864 369 609 978 526 185 149 51 84 135 62

With half a season less hockey played Yzerman has more pts & more assists than feds.
Bottom Line Yzerman put up better numbers in fewer games (I will admit Feds scored more goals but less than the gp difference):
90-91 through 02-03 Totals Feds 908 400 554 954 587 276 Stevie 864 369 609 978 526 185

If you look at the first stats the only seasons Feds dominates Yzerman in stats is the years Yzerman played 50 games. They are also Fedorov's only two great seasons.

Feds had five 80pt seasons including two 100 pt seasons in this span, Yzerman had six 80 pt seasons and three 100+ point seasons including a 58 g 79 a 137 pt season.

Fedorov outscored Yzerman in the playoffs by 28 points in 13 more games. Impressive! Yzerman scored more goals in that period however, but was Feds had far more assists, but had 6 post season were he scored 2 goals or fewer including 93-94 when he scored 1 goal in 7 games while Yzerman missed 4 games, or 00-01 when Yzerman and Shanny had a combined 3 games played while Yzerman put up all 0s in the one game Shanny went all Chuck Woolery (2 &2) in two games, feds played 6 games and put up 2 goals and 5 assists for 7 points. This was when the team really need 5 goals and 2 assists from him.

Not only was Yzerman on par with your most talented player in the history of the game, he put up better numbers, in the 80s or not.

Numbers do not lie, Yzerman was better than Feds (in his prime) and played most of the end of their tenure badly injured.

Not only was Yzerman the better statistical player, he was the epitome of what it means to be a Captain and a Red Wing. He played on broken bones while Feds played when he wanted (he was a much more talented Franzen). Many people forget the post seasons in which the Wings relied on Feds because Yzerman and Shanny were banged up, and when feds was the only Horse Det had in the race and he failed to show up.

Again Yzerman is a top 10 player statistically in the history of the league:
Goals 8th all time 692
Points 6th all time 1755
Assists 7th all time 1063

I know I said I would leave the 80s and the mid 2000s out of this but over his career Yzerman was a 1.16 ppg player, while Feds was .944.

Feds is Carmelo Anthony, phenomenal when surrounded by elite talent, unbelievable when he is counted on to be the second or third cog in the wheel. Then when it is all on him he craps out.

Yzerman towed the company line, even when faced with trade rumors he did what was best for the org, not him.

This is what will prevent Feds from being up in the rafters, these are the rafters in the Joe, not in Colorado where Ray Bourque played 1.5 seasons and got his # retired. The Wings have had a long history of great players, it takes a special player to get his number retired in the Winged Wheel. Had Fed towed the company line a little more, not let his personal matters interfere, not let his ego and wallet interfere, and had he stayed a Wing for his career maybe 91 is in the rafters already.

As it is he fails to meet the Team first requirement, as well as the life long Wing requirement( as far as the Lindsey left so blah blah blah, I already addressed that, those players left due to a horrible turn in ownership, not for more money or a chance to be the man).

Sorry, no 91 in the rafters.

Edit: Wow that was all pretty and formatted until I posted it, then the chart went to poop, glad I cleared it up for you.

#2322865 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Opie on 29 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

You can believe Yzerman was better than Fedorov. The Hart Trophy is given to the player deemed MOST VALUABLE TO HIS TEAM. It's the MVP trophy of the NHL. Fedorov won that trophy. Yzerman did not.

You can believe Yzerman was better than Fedorov. The Hart Trophy is given to the player deemed MOST VALUABLE TO HIS TEAM. It's the MVP trophy of the NHL. Fedorov won that trophy. Yzerman did not.

Who has more career goals?

Who has more career points?

Who has more Career Assists?

Who had more 100 pt seasons?

Who had more 50 goal seasons?

How many players in NHL history have more goals than Yzerman? Feds?

How many players in NHL history have more assists than Yzerman? Feds?

How many players in NHL history have more points than Yzerman? Feds?

They both had 6 seasons being a minus player, 4 of Yzerman's were with the dead wings. (to be fair all of Feds were with Ana)

Feds had 2 unreal seasons (93-94, 95-96), then the rest of his career was very good. 2 Seasons does not make him a better player than Yzerman.

We are not discussing talent, not who is more talented Yzerman or Feds.

Edit: Yzerman is a top 10 forward statistically in the history of the NHL, Feds is not.

#2312866 who's on the outs if we sign multiple forwards?

Posted by Opie on 02 July 2012 - 12:46 PM

The only reason Eaves, Abby, Mursak and others are at risk is the young guys in the system, but really I see most of them as top 6 prospects.
I really don't see the Wings going after any more bottom 6 guys.
Any moves from here on out will be top 6.

So if you consider Sammy replaces Hudler, Tootoo Replaces Homer.

Basically the spots are the same as last year, same guys competing for the same spots.

Same competition for ice time as last year: Miller v Eaves, Mursak v Emmerton, Abby on 3rd v Abby on the 4th.

I think you are much more likely to see the Wings part ways with Mursak and Emmerton than either Abby or Eaves.

I think a 4th line with Abby and Tootoo could really create some havoc on the ice together, and with Miller and Eaves on the wing (rotation) that could really be a solid defensive line with some punch.

I think the third line though will see a lot of Cleary, Helm, Sammy/Bert, so unfortunately that leaves the 4th line without a true Center. Abby can play that role, but is not really a true center.

This is also why I see a trade making more sense to the Wings than signing Parise. If they add Parise it would be awesome, but then there are way to many forwards.

If they are able to trade Franzen for a top 6 forward like a Ryan then maybe you can trade Flip for a top 4 D-man.

But all of the stuff in the top 6 is speculation, the bottom 6 has 2 forwards that are going to have to be out of the rotation, and I think if all are healthy Abby, Miller, and Eaves are Babs choice to stay. He seemed to really like the rotation of Miller and Eaves before Eaves got hurt, they know the system and form a pretty decent 4th line when you add Tootoo to that.

#2293211 Has parity finally arrived?

Posted by Opie on 20 April 2012 - 09:05 AM

Parity has been a part of hockey for a few years now.

Great if you are a fan of small market teams like Phoenix who is bankrupt yet won their division.

Horrible if you are a long time fan of successful larger market teams like the Wings. I miss the days of spending until Mr. I's checkbook was crying.

If you look at point standings for the past couple of years parity is pretty clear, 3 point games don't help that much either.

#2279096 Tortorella Slams Orpik, Crosby, Malkin,...

Posted by Opie on 07 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

Where is shanny's vid explaining the non suspension/fine?

#2237765 Will Jimmy Howard Be Overworked For Playoffs?

Posted by Opie on 21 December 2011 - 12:10 PM

Yes but what other choice does babs have.

#2229589 11/25 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Bruins 2 (SO)

Posted by Opie on 25 November 2011 - 02:14 PM

The Wings will win. Trust me today is my day. I just came home (to check on the dog) from the hospital where my daughter (first child) was born at 3:59am EST.
6lbs 7oz 19 inch beautiful girl, mom and baby are doing very well.

No way the hockey gods would let the Wings lose today, and make me have to deal with all of my friends(I live near Boston) for the next 2 months!

#2225328 White´s injured

Posted by Opie on 14 November 2011 - 01:03 PM

You are missing the point, he is a hero (as you put it) not because he blocked a shot.

But the situation in which he did it.
In front of an open net, Diving face first.

What you are missing is that if he didn't get hit in the face we would be talking about the effort he gave, even if the puck went in.

Now if they score and he dives, it is in the game day thread as a great effort.

He dives and blocks it with his body, and the score was 4-1, or 5-2 or whatever at the time then it probably ends up still in the game day thread.

He dives and blocks the shot during a one goal game that the wings go on to dominate and win the third period after his effort, probably a one page thread with a few posts.

He dives and blocks the shot with his face, causing injury, and it is during a one goal game that the wings go on to dominate and win the third period after his effort. You end up with this thread.

You got negged and I responded because you are acting like this happens 5-6 times a game, when in all actuality when was the last time you saw a player dive face first to block a puck in the crease. Let a lone a Wings D-man, think about how skilled( or unskilled rather) wings d-men have been around the crease the last few years. People on here have bitched for years about the Wings D and clearing the crease or dealing with rebounds.

Even when Z does SLIDE into the crease from time to time he goes in feet first, other D go down on one knee to block it.

He laid out for that one like very few players in the league do.

This was not just another blocked shot, IMO.

But don't take my word on it, take these:

"Well, he took one for the team, that's for sure," said White's defensive partner, Nicklas Lidstrom. "He saved a goal there, diving with his face first. I haven't seen him yet, but I think he got a bad cut to his face.
"But he did save the goal for us, and we were very grateful."

"I hope he's OK," defenseman Brad Stuart said.
"But that takes guts to want to do that. They're still in it at that point. So that was a big play for us.
"When you have someone kind of sacrifice themselves for the good of the team, that lifts guys."

"Obviously, you like to see guys selling out," Babcock said. "You don't like to see guys get hit in the face.
"But great message to his teammates, and he competes every night, this guy.

#2225307 White´s injured

Posted by Opie on 14 November 2011 - 11:27 AM

It was a bloody ACCIDENT that he got hit in the face, why are people acting like he did some great thing? Sucks that he got hurt but he sure as hell didn't stick his face in line of fire on purpose...

Umm then what do you call diving face first in front of the shooter, while laying on the goal line. While at the same time the netminder was still turning to face the shooter. As in he was not even looking in that direction yet.

White dove in front of an open net and got hit in the face for his troubles.

Sure I bet his intention was to block it with his body, but the fact he laid it out, and didn't just try to use his stick, is what people are applauding him for. The fact that he took it to the face adds to the "glamour" or "mystique" of the play.

But it was not like he was standing still and got hit in the ass while not looking.

He PURPOSELY (meaning on purpose, therefore not an accident) dove in front of an empty net to save a goal. He did that, not accidentally, not by chance, not by luck. He dove in front of the puck with the intention (again on purpose not an accident) to block the shot.

He did just that, just so happens he used his cheek (face not ass) to get the job done. Which indirectly led to two goals and a DET win.

IMO if he reaches with his stick to poke check that, it is a tie game and the whole complexion of the game changes.

These are the things we are celebrating.

His effort, his hustle, and his commitment to the team.

EDIT: Clarity

#2219147 Assistant Captain - Tomas Kopecky

Posted by Opie on 28 October 2011 - 10:48 AM

Only in Florida.

Anyone else notice that as soon as players leave Florida they almost all tear it up, or become the player they were before going to FLA or the player they were supposed to be before being drafted by FLA.

Examples (I am sure there are counter examples too)
N. Horton
J. Bouwmeester
O Jokinen
T. Vokoun (from washed up to very early Vezina candidate)

Florida, where a hockey player's skill and old people go to die!!

#2217909 Jimmy Howard will miss Tuesday's Game

Posted by Opie on 24 October 2011 - 12:29 PM

Congratulations Jimmy! Awesome experience, Opie your going to have the time of your life, we had our first 16mnths ago and it's such a surreal thing. Priceless :)

I can't wait for her to be here. Because; 1) I can't wait to see my baby girl, and 2) my wife has had a rough pregnancy. She is so worried something will go wrong that she waits to the last minute to complain. So what happened was I came home from a week long business trip, to be home for a half an hour only to end up in the ER (2nd trip to the ER during pregnancy btw) with her leg 3x its normal size, only to find out she had a blood clot. She thought it was a pulled groin so she was going to tough her way through it.
Apparently some women are susceptible to them while pregnant.
Mom and Baby are 100% fine, and Mom just has to stay on an anticoagulant for a while.
Stressful experience to say the least.

#2217895 Jimmy Howard will miss Tuesday's Game

Posted by Opie on 24 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

As someone who is weeks away from his first, I say congrats Jimmy.
You must feel so relieved and so excited! Good to hear Mom and Baby are well!

#2215835 Eaves needs to be in every game

Posted by Opie on 16 October 2011 - 09:26 PM

To me Miller and Eaves have always been redundant, so when working in games for homer and later Murs it is either to sit one of Miller or Eaves. And that is their collective problem. Miller will come out and have a couple of great games and a thread like this will pop up again.

To me it is a great problem to have, they are pushing each other to be better and better.

I think eventually these two and Emmerton will be the steady fourth line, but it is tough to leave homer out all of the time. He brings a very specific skill set that no one else brings. Plus they can always re-unite him with D and Z and know they will have chemistry.

When Murs is back the problem becomes even larger, but depth is always a good problem top have.

#2214301 Bouchard suspended 2 games

Posted by Opie on 12 October 2011 - 09:57 AM

It just seems that clean hits are going to be punished if they have an unfortunate outcome. This "new NHL" is going in the crapper if you ask me. It's almost more exciting to watch women's Olympic hockey...ok, scratch that last part.

*edited for spelling.

How on earth is this an example of a clean hit, he slashed/high sticked a guy in the mouth????

Suspensions are supposed to be deterrents, they are supposed to make you think before you swing your stick.

If he meant to hit him in the hand or thigh, it doesn't matter, he hit him in the face.

They don't recall penalties because the guy didn't mean to high stick another player. Think about the times a guy gets high sticked because a player is trying to move out of the zone and brings their stick up over their shoulder. Intentional or not it was careless.

What Bouchard did was not careless or an unfortunate series of events, he high sticked the guy on purpose. Right in the face, with the puck no where near them.

Shanny is sending a message, be careful with both your stick and your body, the head is a place the league is being very protective of.

I would have understood if Shanny said no suspension because he was not a repeat offender, however I also have zero problem with 2 games.

For those of you saying this shouldn't be a suspension, where do you draw the line between this and a McSorley/Simon stick to the head?
Do you put devices on the stick to measure speed of the stick during the hit?
Do you start taping the game with high speed film and have mythbusters figure out the speed?


Do you suspend for any stick swung intentionally that lands on the head or face?

#2206619 McCrimmon, Salei on board Russian plane crash

Posted by Opie on 07 September 2011 - 11:55 AM

Pointless now!