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Member Since 04 Jun 2002
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#2390530 Franzen's a Bargain

Posted by Opie on 27 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

The Franzen hate needs to end. I know his contract is a little long, but for the cap hit he's a bargain at his production level. Not every scorer can produce as consistently as Stamkos and other ELITE guys can. Franzen, like most scoring types, is streaky. Does he amp it up to the next level in the playoffs and such? Yes. Does he completely take nights off like 2011-12 Ovechkin/Semin? No.


We've been spoiled by the Yzerman's and the Datsyuk's. Not all players can be that perfect. I'm happy to have Franzen on this team.


Now Quincey....

Again, I ask, and no one has answered, when he is 40 will you still expect him to play like a 4 mil a year player?


I don't, I expect him to play like a 40 year old (if still playing), right now I expect him to play 32 year old, and to play hard every night.


You mentioned not everyone can be Like Yzerman or Dats, but the list of guys hustling every night while wearing the Winged Wheel goes much deeper than those two: Draper, Cheli, Z, Mac, Maltby, etc...


He was given the security of a career long contract, sure the team got a cap friendly hit, but he never has to get a contract again, he  can score 5 goals a year the rest of his career and not need to worry about a contract ever again.


His contract is player and team friendly, not just one way.


And someone mentioned Cleary falling down or Kronner's bad passing even Sammy's shinguard assault or Helm's hands of cement, I can keep listing players short comings or mistakes.


However; IMO lack of skill or execution is far more excusable than lack of effort!


I respect Tootoo more as a player than I do Franzen, and I am by no means a grit and sandpaper guy, but when I see Tootoo taking bad penalties or being out of position it is still obvious every night that he is going hard and giving his all.


The Mule I watched 4 weeks ago and before was definitely taking nights of ala Semin and Ovie as you mentioned above.


I have watched him coast up and down the ice on Offense and Defense, watched him get the puck in the zone only to loft what amounts to a saucer pass at the goalie.


When Zetta is struggling offensively at least you know he can still help shut down the other team's top line. A disinterested Mule is disinterested in all aspects of the game, ESPECIALLY HUSTLE!


Is he tremendously talented? Yes!

Does he take days/weeks off? Yes!


I just have a hard time comparing a guy like Cleary's inability to score 30 goals with Franzen's lack of desire/effort to score 30.


He is happy with the status quo, I get that, I just don't appreciate it!


You are entitled to you opinion, and I will not argue that, but when a thread pops up claiming he is a bargain, I feel like chiming in!

#2390381 Franzen's a Bargain

Posted by Opie on 26 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Franzen could lead the team in points and he'd still get s*** on. He's become the perennial whipping boy around here.

You must not have been on the board when Feds played. That name alone still creates fiery debate and many a suspension on this board!


These were the same arguments had then, except Feds had the whole defense thing on his side of the argument (and was immensely more talented even when loafing!).


When guys like Yzerman come to be the face of your organization, it becomes hard to accept players who don't give it their all because they are disinterested, not because they are hurt or have things going on in life.


Just simply due to interest.


I will admit it Yzerman spoiled me, like being the best team in the league for the past 15+ years (not each year, overall most successful org in recent history)  has spoiled some Wings' fans. 


I do not like part time players/ guys that only play for big games, but some have no problem with it and even admit that  he has the talent to be a $7M + a year guy, but it is ok because he is only being paid to be half the player he could be!


I understand that everyone picks it up a level for big games, I played enough sports at a collegiate level(very bad and very small college) to know that everyone turns it up a notch come post season, even the very bad.


But Mule doesn't turn it up a notch, he simply turns it on. 

#2390138 Franzen's a Bargain

Posted by Opie on 26 April 2013 - 10:41 AM

I asked this before in a Franzen thread:


Those of you who think playing like a 4 mil a year player is ok now because it is his cap hit, while he is actually getting paid 5.25 mil this year,  will you still expect him to play like a 4 mil player at age 40?


If not, then please stop saying he is a bargain at 4 mil a year.


That is his cap hit, not what he is being paid nor what we should expect from him.


He has said it, his coach has said, he lacks motivation a lot of times.


I am not surprised he is playing very well right now, the Wings have been in playoff mode for weeks, roughly the length of his streak.


And the Franzen apologists will come out and say if we put the last few weeks of this season, and the last month or so of season X you will see he is a monster.



i will see that he is a floater and plays when and where he wants because you had to pick and choose segments of his seasons.


His defensive play as of late is all I need to see to know that he spent the better part of this season disinterested, he is now playing D up and down the ice, 3 weeks ago he wasn't defending anything.


When Franzen puts an effort in for a full season, not a couple of months here and a couple of months there, I will back off of him.


But he only plays in Mule mode when he thinks it best, I like that about as much as I like diving!


He scores around 28 goals a season, however most of that is done in about 2 months worth of effort and work, if he worked as hard the rest of the season as he is working right now he would be in talks for the Art Ross.


Instead he is Floater of the Year!



That is the sickening part, he could be a top flight player in this league. Instead he plays when he wants, at least the last guy that played like this in the Winged Wheel was quite possibly the best defensive forward to ever play the game.

#2388287 4/22 GDT: Coyotes 0 @ Red Wings 4

Posted by Opie on 23 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

I have complained a lot about Franzen (I feel justifiably) but last night was the type of game I would like to see from him all the time.

Regardless of the two goals, I know those are important, but the rest of his game last night was on a level he does not (IMO) often reach.


Solid hits, great positioning on both ends of the ice, an active stick, he was in MULE mode last night!

#2380218 Going forward with what we have

Posted by Opie on 04 April 2013 - 01:17 PM

Holland was said to be involved in multiple players, how is that standing pat? 

Do you consider what he did this summer standing pat as well?


I guess I think standing pat and not getting the players are two different things.

#2372872 Perron's ridiculous dive.

Posted by Opie on 24 March 2013 - 10:01 AM

I have a better idea, state in the rule that a dive automatically negates the penalty on the other team.

#2366664 The Next Expansion Draft

Posted by Opie on 08 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

No way in hell this league can expand with the mess Pho is right now.

Too many teams are struggling, contraction is a better idea than expansion.

#2366630 Refs last 3 games

Posted by Opie on 08 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

The hand rules are ridiculous. Hands on the stick in the faceoff circle, fall down and touch the puck with your glove, 2 minutes no matter what the situation. Gross and arbitrary.


I'm sure by next week we'll be back to 1/3 of the game on PP or PK, and you're right, we're going to be pretty rusty. We definitely have a huge advantage 5-on-5 given our depth on the 3rd and 4th line (which Pavel envies :P). How much of an advantage? We sit 2nd in the league behind only Chicago in 5-on-5 Goals for/against ratio. On the other side, both our PK and PP sit at 24th in the league.


How many face offs did Kris Draper win after sticks and bodies got tangled and he fell down and hand passed it.


Face offs are killing me right now, and have been for the past 4 or so years. It seems like the refs are using this time to put themselves on display.




No need to stand there for 10-15 seconds with everyone lined up waiting for some one to step into the circle or a player to move his stick to fast.


What happened to the quick face offs?

#2359355 Taylor Hall Suspended 2 games for Kneeing

Posted by Opie on 22 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

Wow, that is a tough call.


You are right, not sure about the "throwing out the knee", He looked like a guy who doesn't hit a lot going for a neutral zone hip check and BADLY missed!


I think his reputation saves him from a suspension or from a lengthy one.


Plus it is hard to tell if he intended to do that.

#2355713 State of Hockey; High school drama

Posted by Opie on 15 February 2013 - 08:55 AM

If my child did that on any other night(let alone senior night), there is no way in hell he would be going to senior prom, or any senior based functions, including  post graduation activities or parties. You want to behave like spoiled little child and act like an embarrassment and have no class. 


Then I simply cannot trust you in any situation.


And until I can trust you again, no spring sports, no school activities. To school and home that is it!!


The problem here is his dad/mom is probably the one in his ear telling him he is Patty Roy reincarnate. People used to say "Hockey Parents are the worst they are so competitive".


I always thought hockey parents got a bad rep, because as a former educator and coach, all sports have numerous parents who think their child is the best and have no issue telling the coach, other coaches, teachers, parents, the french fry guy or anyone who will listen to how great their child is.


Remember this kid is a product of the environment he grew up in, I would assume his mom or dad are very proud of him right now.

#2332093 Sacrifice the full season to guarantee Bettman's removal?

Posted by Opie on 18 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

I don't trust the owners will make good on the "Make Whole" clause, I doubt the players trust the owners more than I do.
The owners negotiated contracts this summer under false pretenses. Offering money they were not willing to pay, giving out 10 year deals while claiming no one should have a contract over 5 years.

The owners are being very shady and hypocritical, if I were a player there is no way in hell I accept that Make Whole clause!

#2326748 Fedorov 5 years/50 mil - 10 years later

Posted by Opie on 24 August 2012 - 01:03 PM

LOL @ The AXE.

Hmmm my other who loves feds and who hates feds post hit the second page, lets take a page out of Blue Adams book and.....

Repost but change topic title and no one will know this is a who else loves Feds thread!

Posted Image

#2326709 Zetterberg`s Royal Swedish Balls -coming soon-

Posted by Opie on 24 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

all I could think of reading thread title:

#2322971 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Opie on 30 July 2012 - 10:47 AM

I completely disagree with eveything you said in your post and here is why...You say Fedorov could have been replaced. With who? That is pure speculation. Number one centres do not grow on trees and teams who have them hardly ever trade them. Your logic is seriously flawed here. At the time, say 1996, who would Bowman (GM at the time) have replaced Fedorov with? Joe Sakic? Peter Forsberg? Yeah, I am sure the Avs would have been willing to trade 1 of those players to their hated arch rivals. Eric Lindros? The point here is that there was no one who was going to replace Fedorov in the line-up. Why do you think the Wings matched Carolina's offer sheet in 1998? They knew he could not have been replaced which is why they paid the high price of keeping him.

Your point is moot and nothing but speculation yet again regarding time on the ice. Did Shanny kill penalties? Who was on the ice more on the penalty kill than Fedorov was? Lidstrom? Amongst the forwards, Fedorov was relied on the most by Bowman. He even said it himself numerous times. You know just because you don't like Fedorov doesn't mean he wasn't a great hockey player. Your refer to 2002. Yzerman playing on 1 leg was great. However do you really believe the Wings win that Cup without Fedorov? Yzerman didn't add much scoring wise after the Canucks series. Fedorov was our best player. We don't win anything that year without him. To think otherwise makes you look like you don't know anything about the game. You do not like Fedorov and are basing your flawed argument on it.

I also do not believe we win any of those Cups without Lidstrom. He was that important. It isn't Fedorov' fault he had talented players around him. He made those guys better as well. You don't appreciate Fedorov's career, that is your opinion. Not mine.

I appreciate what he did, I even called him world class, even called him one of the most talented players, because you choose to ignore the shifts he took off does not mean I have to.

I admitted the whole team won championships, not just Yzerman.

But since you brought up 01-02 again here is another tidbit for you, who led the team in scoring that playoff run?

Thats right Stevie Y with 6g 17a and 23pts,
Lids 16pts (5 goals), hull 18 pts (10 goals), shanny 19 pts(8 goals), feds 19 pts (5 goals). Goals Highlighted to refute your point, Hull was the beast in the later rounds! Hell Homer had 8 goals that year.

Yet another season where the team (after the first round) was playing great and so was Feds. Point out a year to me were Feds did the heavy lifting alone?
What year did he carry the team?

Now look at the amount of years he had high post season point totals, and look at how many other Wings had great stats too.

They won as a team and lost as a team, neither Stevie nor Feds single handily won the team the cup, however Yzerman single handily won them a few series, even when the likes of Feds, Shanny and the rest were struggling. Where as Feds (again) was at his best when the team was at its best.

As far as replacing him, you saying you couldn't replace him is just as speculative, in 96-97 Feds was 44th in scoring(30th in goals), behind the likes of Ziggy Palffy, Hull, Kariya, Selanne, Bondra, Nolan, Moginly, Rechhi, Graves, Fluery, Yashin, Amonte, Stumpel, Weight, Damphouse etc...
95-96 he was 10th (again one of his two great seasons).
98-99 he was just behind Ray Whitney at 31st.

My point you may be asking, could they have replaced his production with one player for his entire career, no way in hell, but 2 or 3 players could have done it, and in fact anyone in 97-98 would have been more productive than Feds when he held out.

Who says the Wings don't trade Feds for Palffy one year, then get Tkachuk later or whoever. The wings were deep at center and had multiple lines with 2 centers on it. But again all speculation on both our parts.

Was Feds an important piece, very much so yes, was he as important as Stevie, no.

Does he deserve his # retired, no.
Is he HOF, questionable and I only say that due to the amount of HOFers with his stats.
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 500 goals?
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 1200 points?
If he made it would I be upset, no not at all congrats, there are bigger travesties in omissions and election into the HOF.

Either way my point is he doesn't deserve his number retired in the Red WIng org.

Got distracted during this post it may not make the sense I wanted.

I have an Yzerman sweater and no Fedorov. I just recognize that you can like 2 players at the same time. Fedorov's stats are there. Same cup wins as Yzerman. More and better individual trophy wins than Yzerman. Can Messier's jersey not be retired in Edmonton because Gretzky played ahead of him? Anybody that watched both of these guys knows that Fedorov was the superior hockey player. And if you concede that, then we can get back to the real argument- was Fedorov a true Red Wing and not just a hired gun? I think he was for the better part of his career. And thats why I think his sweater should be retired.

My like or dislike of Feds has nothing to do with it. Maybe this will help:

If part of the requirements in EDM were that players were lifelong, die hard, committed to the Org above all else neither of them would be retired in EDM, that is what makes retiring a number in Det so difficult and what keeps Feds out of the rafters.

#2322960 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Opie on 30 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

You had me and then you lost me. Feds had the best playoff +/- in the 90's so saying he didnt show up is lame. And he didnt get hurt because he worked out and kept himself ripped. The Europeans caught onto tje importance of physical conditioning a lot faster than the North Americans in terms of hockey. Perhaps if Yzerman had trained as hard as Fedorov, he would have been there to help the lone horse out a bit more. All this being said, why does Fedorov have to be Yzerman? When the raise his jersey, should they put "Not Steve" on the back?

Why compare the two, well lets see we are talking about Wing forwards who should or have their number retired, only one of the retired # forwards actually played at the same time as Feds, plus someone else already compared them.

But you are missing the point; if you have to say "not Stevie" or "Not Gordie" or not "Lids" they don't belong in the rafters at the Joe!

Another example if you don't like the Stevie Y comparison: Lids jersey, no need to put "not Stevie" on the back, he was the Perfect Human for 17+ seasons, was a Captain and a lifelong wing who toke pay cuts to help the team get better. He never played the hold out game, he never said he needed more ice time or to be the man.

Yzerman's injuries had nothing to do with not being in shape, it wasn't like he was out due to pulled groins or ab strains.

He had surgery that most people are lucky to walk after having, he had an orbital bone shattered by a puck, how do you strengthen and condition your orbital bone??

Yzerman was past his prime when feds was in it, yet Yzerman put up better numbers.

And I explained to you when I thought feds crapped out in the playoffs, when Yzerman and Shanny played 3 games, and the team was relying on Feds.
But when he did shine the likes of Yzermam, Kozlov, Murphy, Lids, Larionov and others were also producing.


Check out how many wings had double digit playoff points.

Let me try to explain my position better notice the difference in these sentences:

Fedorov was a world class talent who helped the team win multiple championships and build a dynasty, who took shifts, games, and even parts of seasons off, left the franchise for a chance to be the man.

Yzerman was a world class talent who helped the team win multiple championships and build a dynasty, constantly put the team first in salary, ice time, and any other way you can think of, was the epitome of what a captain should be, and was the complete embodiment of what it means to be a Red Wing.

Lidstrom was a world class talent who helped the team win multiple championships and build a dynasty, constantly put the team first in salary, ice time, and any other way you can think of, was the epitome of what a captain should be, and was the complete embodiment of what it means to be a Red Wing.

Being an elite, world class athlete is simply just not enough to get your # retired for the Wings, sorry, it just isn't enough.