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WorkingOvertime

Member Since 13 May 2009
Offline Last Active Today, 06:21 PM
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#2051088 10/23 GDT: Ducks 4 at Red Wings 5

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 23 October 2010 - 08:52 AM

Hopefully Abby plays tonight. His style fits this game very well.


#2038908 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 01 October 2010 - 01:24 PM

Or, we can let the younger more talented players we already have play and develop and have the 13th spot for the guy who has the best chance at earning the next spot. The enforcer will not challenge anyone for playing time nor will he be a motivating factor for current roster players to play harder because there is someone right behind them eager and working to take the spot from them. What benefit did we get from either Downey or May that we could not have lived without? I cannot think of one time where I was glad to have them on the team because their presence did anything really... in the lineup or not

I don't understand this logic, especially when the Wings are likely to carry 14 forwards this year. How would it help Tatar (or any other prospect) develop if he is sitting in the press-box for half of the season? Let the prospects play in GR where they can see big minutes every night, and call them up when they are needed. Having Downey play ~40 games when someone needs a break (but not long enough for a call-up) does nothing to hurt the development of prospects. It likely helps IMO.


#2038783 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 01 October 2010 - 07:33 AM

I'm not arguing that what you are stating is always false, but Brooks Orpik threw a cheapshot at Franzen a week ago and Downey was dressed that night. Sure, Bertuzzi defended Franzen after but having Downey around didn't cause Orpik to think twice. It's like the Laraque on Kronwall argument from last season - Laraque was going to stick his knee out regardless of the consequences to follow. Cheapshots are going to happen in the game.

But would Orpik have thrown any cheapshots after the fight had he stayed in the game? Most enforcers are reactive and this usually works well to reduce cheapshots. If Orpik is playing recklessly and is forced to fight, he is less likely to continue his reckless play knowing he will be physically confronted in a fight.


#2038609 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 30 September 2010 - 05:35 PM

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league.

Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were.

People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters.

This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year.

The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have.

It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

I can agree with most of this- an enforcer isn't needed to win. However, this doesn't address the real issue. If the Wings had always carried an enforcer as the 13th forward- playing ~50 games a season- would the Wings have been any less successful?


#2038181 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 29 September 2010 - 07:00 PM

Did anyone watch the game last year when May fought Boll? Boll was taking runs at Dats, Raffy, etc all game until May forced the issue. After the fight, Boll was playing less recklessly. Does this mean an enforcer will prevent all cheap-shot? No. But they are often successful in stopping a player from continuing their reckless play.


#2033814 Article on Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 16 September 2010 - 09:58 PM

Agreed. Although, I'm not sure he would even be 13th because of Draper. Whether that's right is debatable, but the Red Wings won't dress Downey over Draper. It would take a couple injuries like you said because I think the Red Wings are really intent on keeping Miller too.

I would like to see Downey as the 14th forward. While I don't see him playing above Drapes in normal games, he may be 'needed' in several games throughout the year. With the talent in GR, I don't think Miller or Ritola is needed as the 14th when Draper is available. They would get minimal games behind Drapes, and IMO Downey would be a better option as a possibility on any given night.


#2033343 GDT: Detroit vs. St Louis

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 14 September 2010 - 09:01 PM

Tatar was clutch.

Callahan and Cody Beach also fought about a min into the game. Can anyone in attendance give us a recap?


#2030047 Power Forwards

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 29 August 2010 - 10:37 AM


Compare Datsyuk's style of carrying the puck through the neutral zone or into the offensive zone to Zetterberg's.

Datsyuk typically skates away from opposing players and attempts to open up passing lanes. Zetterberg, on the other hand, will use his body to shield the puck as he pushes through opposing players to move forward. While both are capable of performing the other's style, it's a fairly consistent difference you will see. If he is capable of pushing through opposing players to gain offensive position while carrying the puck, and does this consistently, that is a strong argument that he could be considered a power forward.

Now let's see all the responses from the enforcer slappies.

If you are comparing players to Dats, I think that most would look like power forwards. Dats has some of the best hands in the game today, and most players have to use their body more when carrying the puck. I don't think you will get much (if any) support for your claim that Z is a power forward. I don't see how he fits even your definition of a power forward.

The rest of your original list looks alright. I don't know if Homer can be considered a power forward though. He certainly uses his size in the zone, but his puck-handling is sub-par to the point where is isn't a substantial threat when rushing the puck.

In response to the enforcer slappies comment, please see my last post in this thread. It is apparent that your knowledge of fighting in the NHL is severely flawed. If you're going to argue playing styles (which is a heated subject on this forum), please get your facts correct.


#2028932 Kenny done dealing?

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 24 August 2010 - 03:24 PM

IMO the only player the Wings would pick up is a Downey type. Kenny is probably shopping both Miller and Ritola. If there are good offers for both, I could see them going. With Mursak, Tatar, and I. Flip in the AHL, the Wings have the depth to move both Ritola and Miller if they choose. I would put the chances at ~25% though.


#2028489 Penguins sign Arron Asham

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 23 August 2010 - 11:41 AM

News flash people: Asham isn't a great fighter. If your argument is that he would add a dimension that Abdelkader and crew cannot you are sorely mistaken. It does help to have a guy who will drop the gloves if necessary, and that's why we have Bertuzzi, Salei, Ericsson, Eaves, Cleary, Abdelkader (for sure) and Stuart. The only person out of that whole bunch who Asham would likely destroy is Eaves, because ASHAM ISN'T THAT GREAT. Our 4th liners make more than him for a reason.

Having a one-dimensional enforcer on the team was embarrassing... signing an old, small, gritty player who readily fights is in no way improving our team when we could give Abdelkader more ice time. Fighting isn't something that we should expect every time a certain player is dressed. It's something that we should expect when necessary. Knee-on-knee, check from behind, dirty hit, whatever... then someone should stick up for their teammates but with 5 min a night how often will he be out there when something goes down? What should we do wait until later in the game and let our BEAST ARRON ASHAM off his leash? Be real he's no Kocur... he's a solid hockey player with no purpose on our team so let it be... it's over with and our team kicks ass already. I cannot believe how some people still find an excuse to ***** when their team is so stacked.

Asham would win over 50% of fights against anyone on the Wings. He is a good MW/LHW fighter. The Wings were voted the worst enforcing team for a reason (although the Caps were close IMO).

I don't understand your argument on enforcers/fighters. You say having a one dimensional enforcer is embarrassing, and then continue to discredit Asham although he is a decent player and fighter. There are no Proberts in today's NHL (unfortunately).

Posters here aren't unhappy with the team or bitching about Holland as much as it seems. If the discussion can stay civil and intelligent, discussions on possible players, line combos, contracts, etc can be very interesting and informative. The off-season would be boring if no one questioned Holland. That is not to say that anyone is unhappy with him, but it is worthwhile to question other possible moves. Being an avid fan wouldn't be as fun if we didn't dissect and discuss the off-season.


#2026087 Hitting and Winning

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 14 August 2010 - 01:31 PM

Cause and effect between these two variables cannot be determined from this study. It is pretty obvious that there are other variables that have an effect on both hitting and winning. The first, and possibly most important, is puck possession. Teams that posses the puck tend to hit less and win more. This is, this variable is likely causing the relationship to occur between hitting and winning. There are also other factors- blowout games tend to have more fights, and there are likely more hits too (from the losing team). Also, skilled players tend to hit less; therefore an unskilled team may hit more than a skilled team.


#2019512 The Justin Abdelkader Watch Thread

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 26 July 2010 - 07:00 PM

My thoughts exactly. I love Abdelkader but I think Helm would be more useful on the 3rd line. The only reason I would consider Abby over Helm is because Draper/Miller-Helm-Eaves was such a fun line to watch.

If you really think about it this team is quite stacked, and Abby will do great no matter which line he plays on, but lets be real here - Everyone is getting a huge boner for Abdelkader when he hasn't really proven anything. He hasn't had the chance to because he's only been called up a few times. I think next year he should be on the 3rd line for sure, but this year - his first full season with our team, he should start as a 4th liner. Big, gritty, tough and full of heart - he's better suited for the 4th line than Helm, the wicked fast center who throws his weight around and only needs to work on his shot to be a SICK player. Abby and Helm are both great candidates but I think Helm has proven that he is too talented to be stuck on the 4th line. Abby will have the chance to prove the same thing this year and I think without a doubt he will.

Hell who knows, maybe he will show up and outplay Helm and if that's the case put him between Bertuzzi and Cleary and watch the destruction unfold... All I'm saying is that it'd probably be best to start him on the 4th and make him earn his way up the ladder rather than just hand him the 3rd line position. He obviously has the determination to earn his spot so why not let it happen naturally?

No matter what happens it will be interesting that's for sure and I'm pretty excited to see what kind of player Abby will be as an NHLer. I see some people are hoping for our own version of Lucic, and I can't say I'd be disappointed one bit if that were the case. He certainly looks to have the potential to become a player of that caliber, and the fact that he's a local guy only makes him that much more awesome.

How do you figure that Helm is better suited for a scoring third line than Abby? IMO Abby has better hands while Helm is perfectly suited for a dump-and-chase/cycle offensive style with his speed and pressure. Helm has shown that he is a great PK'er and a good energy forward, but I don't think anyone expects him to be an offensive-minded forward. I think Draper (in his prime) is a great comparison for the player that Helm can be.

In the AHL, Abby scored at a higher rate. Abby scored at a rate of .73 while in the AHL this year (with 86 PIMs). In comparison, Helm's best AHL season had a point-per-game of .67- this is worse than Abby's first AHL season.

I don't mean to imply that Helm cannot be a competent third line center, but I believe that Abby has to tools to be better offensively. Hopefully he can put it all together this year and earn/keep the third line center position. I think both Helm and Abby are excellent assets for the Wings (who I want to stay for a long time), and hopefully they can both surpass our expectations.


#2017358 Loophole

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 20 July 2010 - 03:27 PM

I'll go ahead and say the age of 40 should be the cutoff designated by the next CBA.

46 skaters have played at the age of 40
13 at the age of 42
4 at the age of 44

I agree with this. Max age a player can be signed until is 40, unless the contract was signed after the player is 35 years old. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and I think this is a fair one.


#2017157 Loophole

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 20 July 2010 - 12:48 AM

Its too late for them to do that IMO. They let everyone else have their long contract's and some with a history of getting injured. If they try to do something about his contract then they would have to do something about every one of these 10+ year contracts.

The years doesn't bother me as much as the age at the end of the contract. Kovy will be 44 when this contract runs out. If this is allowed, will teams eventually move to signing players until they're 50+ in order to get a low cap-hit? There needs to be a line drawn somewhere.


#2015022 We've got the ice tonight, 8-9, 3rd floor.

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 14 July 2010 - 06:46 PM

Oddly enough there is some talent on LGW. We should create a league and play against other forum's teams.

The question is, would we have an enforcer? :ph34r: