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Member Since 13 May 2009
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#2104806 Wings Have To Toughen Up Soon

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 25 January 2011 - 11:17 AM

another thing is we need guys like ott or clutterbuck, the problem is they are worth as much as filppula or kronwall, thus we can't have them unless we give up something significant

miller is only 50,000 mroe than konopka, konopka is useless, miller is an awesome penalty killer, neil is waaaay more expensive, and prust is more expensive and at the moment more valuable to his team

Have you ever seen Konopka play? How many Isles games have you watched this year or Lightning games last year? I'd post his stats but I'm on my phone. To say Konopka is useless shows a lack of knowledge on your part.

#2104768 Wings Have To Toughen Up Soon

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 25 January 2011 - 09:42 AM

Punching people and being punched...that does not make you tough. A goon with no skill might be tough, but not because he fights. Toughness is being able to overcome adversity in the forms it manifests itself as. For the Wings, it often seems to be an opponent where many of you guys start flipping out because we don't have an enforcer. But the Wings get through, because they have tough players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Draper, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Osgood.

You can have your team full of Colton Orrs and Derek Boogards. I'll take a team full of Zetterbergs, Datsyuks, Lidstroms, or Kronwalls.

You're off base here. No poster in this thread suggested we have a pure enforcer, or a team of them. The argument is, and has been, why not have a Neil, Konopka, Prust, etc in the lineup in place of someone like Miller?

#2101387 1/20 GDT: Red Wings 4 at Blues 3 (OT)

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 20 January 2011 - 10:40 PM

Only had 1 hit tonight, creates very little chances, and hasn't been putting up the points lately. It would have been pointless but his play as of late has been pointless. I get that he is the hometown boy but he has to earn his ice time.

He got robbed of the game winner. While his play has suffered he certainly is not the weak link in the team. Would you play Miller above Abby?

Fighting would have been pointless. He was tired and likely would have lost. I'm one of the more pro-enforcer posters here but fighting in the last minute of a game when nobody has wronged your team is pointless.

#2101359 1/20 GDT: Red Wings 4 at Blues 3 (OT)

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 20 January 2011 - 10:33 PM

Because he is useless. Doesn't fight and hasn't been putting up points. If it wasn't for all the injuries he would be up in the press box.

Really? Really? He hits, creates chances, and can put up points. If you were watching, he was at the end of his shift after coming within two inches of scoring the game winner. It would have been pointless for him to fight a better fighter with thirty seconds left in the game.

#2088511 12/31 GDT: Islanders 4 at Red Wings 3 OT)

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 01 January 2011 - 02:45 PM

I'm hoping Tatar has a long, productive career with the Wings, but I didn't like that celebration st all. It was a "me" display on a team that wins by playing a "we" game. I have never seen any of the current Wings try to draw attention to themselves the way he did last night.

How was that celebration about him? He grabbed the Winged Wheel- to me this symbolizes he was extremely excited to score his first NHL goal with the Wings team.

#2086332 World Juniors

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 28 December 2010 - 08:08 PM


#2083186 Call up Ilari Filppula?

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 23 December 2010 - 12:01 AM

I think Mursak is going to be called up. He has been in the AHL longer and has earned it (not to say I. Flip hasn't).

#2060385 Jiri Hudler Watch Thread

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 09 November 2010 - 12:17 PM

You are forgetting something. We have 1 extra forward (excluding Draper). If anybody is injured we have 0 extra. Hudler has only played what 10 games and you want to dump him. What happens then when somebody goes down to injury?

Who fills tha spot.

Draper won't be out all season and there are some good players in GR who deserve a few games up. If there are multiple Injuries, Hudler will be needed. However, what is the value of him sitting in the press box until that happens?

#2051088 10/23 GDT: Ducks 4 at Red Wings 5

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 23 October 2010 - 08:52 AM

Hopefully Abby plays tonight. His style fits this game very well.

#2038908 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 01 October 2010 - 01:24 PM

Or, we can let the younger more talented players we already have play and develop and have the 13th spot for the guy who has the best chance at earning the next spot. The enforcer will not challenge anyone for playing time nor will he be a motivating factor for current roster players to play harder because there is someone right behind them eager and working to take the spot from them. What benefit did we get from either Downey or May that we could not have lived without? I cannot think of one time where I was glad to have them on the team because their presence did anything really... in the lineup or not

I don't understand this logic, especially when the Wings are likely to carry 14 forwards this year. How would it help Tatar (or any other prospect) develop if he is sitting in the press-box for half of the season? Let the prospects play in GR where they can see big minutes every night, and call them up when they are needed. Having Downey play ~40 games when someone needs a break (but not long enough for a call-up) does nothing to hurt the development of prospects. It likely helps IMO.

#2038783 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 01 October 2010 - 07:33 AM

I'm not arguing that what you are stating is always false, but Brooks Orpik threw a cheapshot at Franzen a week ago and Downey was dressed that night. Sure, Bertuzzi defended Franzen after but having Downey around didn't cause Orpik to think twice. It's like the Laraque on Kronwall argument from last season - Laraque was going to stick his knee out regardless of the consequences to follow. Cheapshots are going to happen in the game.

But would Orpik have thrown any cheapshots after the fight had he stayed in the game? Most enforcers are reactive and this usually works well to reduce cheapshots. If Orpik is playing recklessly and is forced to fight, he is less likely to continue his reckless play knowing he will be physically confronted in a fight.

#2038609 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 30 September 2010 - 05:35 PM

It boggles my mind to see Red Wings fans who still think enforcers are needed. For pretty much the past 20 years, the Wings have been at or near the bottom of the league in fighting majors (dead last every year since the lockout) and still been the most successful team in the league.

Even allowing that fighting is a valuable ability for a team to have, it is painfully obvious that the lack of it can be compensated for in other areas. Instead, the pro-enforcer crowd just overstates the value of whatever 'enforcer' we've had in the past, even though they probably spent the whole year complaining about how soft we were.

People talk about the 96-98 teams like they were some great monument to team toughness, but the reality is they still rarely fought and were considered 'soft' compared to most of the league. McCarty was never so tough that he scared anyone. People who spent all of 08 whining about how soft we were now talk about Drake like he was one of the great all-time fighters.

This year will likely be no different than any other. We'll have a handful of fights. People will cry about how soft we are, blame every minor injury on our lack of fighters. If we aren't successful it will be because we weren't tough enough. But if we happen to win a Cup, it will be because of great enforcing from Bert and Abby or whoever happens to have a couple fights during the year.

The simple fact is that any deficiency can be overcome by enough strength in other areas. A strong defense can make up for a weaker offense or sub-par goaltending. A strong offense can offset a less than stellar defense. Great depth can overcome injuries or below average play from your stars. Dominant stars can compensate for a lack of depth. There isn't any one thing that is an absolute must have.

It's the general level of team talent, coaching and system, great effort, and a bit of luck that wins Cups. We have the talent, coaching, and system, despite any specific weaknesses we might have. All we really need now is the effort and luck.

I can agree with most of this- an enforcer isn't needed to win. However, this doesn't address the real issue. If the Wings had always carried an enforcer as the 13th forward- playing ~50 games a season- would the Wings have been any less successful?

#2038181 Wings release Aaron Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 29 September 2010 - 07:00 PM

Did anyone watch the game last year when May fought Boll? Boll was taking runs at Dats, Raffy, etc all game until May forced the issue. After the fight, Boll was playing less recklessly. Does this mean an enforcer will prevent all cheap-shot? No. But they are often successful in stopping a player from continuing their reckless play.

#2033814 Article on Downey

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 16 September 2010 - 09:58 PM

Agreed. Although, I'm not sure he would even be 13th because of Draper. Whether that's right is debatable, but the Red Wings won't dress Downey over Draper. It would take a couple injuries like you said because I think the Red Wings are really intent on keeping Miller too.

I would like to see Downey as the 14th forward. While I don't see him playing above Drapes in normal games, he may be 'needed' in several games throughout the year. With the talent in GR, I don't think Miller or Ritola is needed as the 14th when Draper is available. They would get minimal games behind Drapes, and IMO Downey would be a better option as a possibility on any given night.

#2033343 GDT: Detroit vs. St Louis

Posted by WorkingOvertime on 14 September 2010 - 09:01 PM

Tatar was clutch.

Callahan and Cody Beach also fought about a min into the game. Can anyone in attendance give us a recap?