mmamolo

If Holland lands Semin, that will do a lot to reestablish some credibility.  Krupp and Lang?  Come on, Kenny.  Hatcher?  Come on.

Wow, do you have any idea how strong each of those players were at the time they were acquired?  Injuries cost Hatcher and Krupp their time in DET and Lang eventually deteriorated.  But all three of those guys were impact players when they were acquired.  

Holland low-balled Schultz, Parise and Suter this off-season.  No doubt about it.  He screwed up.  No excuses.

...Schultz was very, very interested in us.  We were, I think, 1 of 2 non western-Canadien teams on his list.  He talked to us.  And as soon as he talked to us, he was no longer interested.  He wanted a top 4 guarantee.  We wouldn't give it to him.  I'm sure Holland/Babcock told him something along the lines of "you'll have a great chance to compete with six other defensemen" and he said "no thanks".  Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl were the only defensemen on our roster at that point.   you're telling me we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Smith, to at least start the season!?  Even if we signed Suter, we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Ericsson!?  Why the hell not just tell him that he'll get one, give him one early in the season, and let him keep it or lose it.  Step one is getting him here and we blew it because we're arrogant morons.

...Parise and Suter were a package deal the entire way.  We completely insulted Parise with our offer and he didn't want to come here.  Hence, Suter wasn't coming here.  Again, arrogant morons.

I'm actually embarrassed for you.  That has got to be the single worst post I have ever read - and that includes all of your pointless line threads/posts

it depends on the wants of the selling team, and the bids of the other teams involved. if you are NJ and you can't sign parise, is a 3rd round pick all you would take? is a single 1st round pick enough? if the Rw were to say offer Emmerton and Mursak, is that enough for you? I would think that any team trying to trade for rights is going to make the trade contingent on the player signing. Otherwise why would you do it? Now there is also the possibility of trading for a guy or 2 that are UFA's next season. Of which there is a long list, and their value is a little lower than normal because they could walk soon. Then there are the RFA's. There are always good players inline for big raises that teams just don't wan to pay for, or can't pay for. The sens forward Folingo (spelling) is an example. he has worked himself into position to get 3+ million. can they afford to keep him at that rate?

Wrong - I cannot remember one trade that involved a players rights prior to free agency that was contingent on signing.  

There have been some where the compensation would change if the player did or did not sign but the eve nif the player did not sign with the team there was some compensation going to the player's original team.  That is why we saw Dan Hamhuis' rights get traded twice in one off season a couple summers ago.

Also, can someone please tell me where I can find a job that allows me to piss away the owner of the company's money without ever showing even the smallest positive return on the "investment".  How does thisf****** ape still have a job?

I'd also like a job where all I basically do is watch hockey and smoke cigars

I find it hilarious how every one is getting boners over Schultz when the bulk of people on this forum have probably never seen him play.

Every few months a new flavour of the week player gets into the media and every one on this forum goes crazy wishing the Wings would sign that player.  Last summer so many people were going nuts over Christian Ehroff and/or James Wisniewski and now everyone is happy the Wings didn't touch them.  I'm not saying Schultz will/would end up being a disappointment but so many people talk out of their asses about players they literally know nothing about.

Hmmm check again. laich over the past 5 seasons has been very consistant. 4 seasons of 82 games, 1 of 78 game. 5 years ago he had 37 points. then a 59 point, 53 point, 48 point and 41 point. Star? No. solid 3 line C? yes. But Green and laich together are good for 50+ goals if they both play 75+ games. Franzen, helm and kindl will never score that many.

Brooks Laich has a $4.5M cap hit and has never scored more than 25 goals.

Mike Green is an RFA who made $5.25M last season and is four years removed from his 31 goal season.

I don't understand how you come up with 50+ goals from those two.  They would both have to reach their career highs of a number of years ago.

I'm not saying I don't like those two guys but even if Green signed for the same amount as last season you'd be talking about a combined $9.75M cap hit.  You can do a lot better than those two for that cap hit.  Not to mention the Wings would have to move players to get those two.

Ok, I'll play along, with $70M cap:

FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / David Jones ($3.250m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m)  / Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)  

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Josh Harding ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,408,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,591,288

This works because if Nyquist can't handle top line minutes then you can elevates Jones, Franzen, Cleary.  Plus, Bertuzzi and Cleay can rotate on the 3/4.  Also, in a pinch if someone gets hurt down the middle you have enough capable wingers that Flip can centre until the injury is done.

Also, on the back end I would personally love it if the Wings could get Schultz.  I would even just move White and replace him with Schultz possibly switch with Quincey so two rookies aren't paired together right away.  But realistically you could have above.

Plus, I wanted Josh Harding last summer and he always dominates against the Wings.  He's young enough that he could push Howard but established enough to know his role is the back up unless he can absolutely steal the starting spot.

Obviously Bryzgalov was nowhere near his typical form this season but I think too much is being made of his quirky personality.  The only difference from passed seasons and this year is that his quirky personality is getting more attention since he plays for the Flyers and not the Coyotes.  It's not like the guy just developed this quickiness over night.  

That being said, I don't think enough is being made about the injuries the Flyers had on the blueline this year.  Bryzgalov will be better next year.

Unrealistic? I want our big guns to perform when it counts. For Franzen to score all of one goal against the Predators - and a flukey goal, at that - is unacceptable. So you tell me that's being unrealistic, as Franzen isn't actually an elite player and, as such, would be better served if there were other stars ahead of him in the depth chart so the other teams couldn't key up on him. ("Don't blame Johan! We don't have enough stars! Is it his fault he's making good money with the added comfort of long-term job security? NO! He didn't ask to be a key player! He didn't ask to play on the first line! He didn't choose to suffer these burdens!!!") Well, Babs tried him on every line, with seemingly every possible combination of linemates - and the guy didn't really deliver on any front, in any role.

Fairweather and fickle? That would mean I'm hot and cold with the team; one day I might be all in, the next, total disgust. That's not the same thing as calling out a player for under-performing. (And, for the record, I'm not new to the Floatzen scene.)

Is Babs a fairweather, fickle, unrealistic coach for demoting Franzen to the fourth line?

1. Unrealistic:  You expecting Franzen to put up big numbers every single playoff run including years (like this year) when the entire team struggles.  You may point to last season as well if you want but he was injured so personally I dont buy it.  

I am not saying Franzen was great this year and I'm not saying he couldnt have been better or did more.  But it is unrealistic to expect him to dominate each and every year.  No one does that.

2. Franzen isn't an elite player and shouldnt be counted upon as one.  The Wings didn't/don't have enough depth (which includes top 6 depth) as a team.  Franzen is a tweener - he's not elite but he is better than a lot of secondary stars.  If you expect Franzen to dominate against the other teams top pairings all the time you will be disappointed.  It's like countless teams in the league who don't have a legit Number 1 centre.  They plug their best centre in that slot and then fans are pissed when the guy puts up ~50 points instead of true top line centre numbers.  

3. Fair weather and fickle does not imply that you are hot and cold with the team.  Fair weather implies that when things are great you're all about them and fickle means when things are bad you're totally against them.

There are way, way too many fair weather Wings fans on this forum these days.  I can't believe how many turn coats there are here.  Last year Franzen was hurt and this year in the playoffs the bulk of the Wings players were no shows in the playoffs.  

Is Franzen an elite player? No.  Woudl he be better served if there were other stars ahead of him in the depth chart so the other teams couldn't key up on him? Of course.  You guys are all way too fickle and unrealistic

In what sense? Just because I say his playoff performance shouldn't immediately earn him a spot on next seasons roster, especially given the salary he'll be demanding?

He's a sniper who didn't show up as one in the playoffs. Both his playoff goals were scored in front of the net. If we want someone to do that we might as well bring back Holmstrom at a fraction of the cost and spend the cap money on a sniper that could actually turn up as one come post season.

First off, I agreed in saying I didn't think Hudler should come back.

Secondly, Jiri Hudler is not a sniper - never has been and never will be one.  He has always been a pass first player who has a pretty solid shot.  He scored his goals in the playoffs the exact same way he scored the bulk of his regular season goals.  He routinely set up in front of the net all season long.  

To me, when people make posts like yours above I honestly wonder if we were watching the same team all year.  I'm not trying to insult you but I really don't understand your point of view.  When i read posts like that it comes across, to me, as though you just hate him so badly that you just flat out don't want him back on the Wings next year so you look to chastise his game in any fashion you can.  Whether that is in fact what you are doing or not, i dont know.  But that's the way it comes across.

This is why, no matter how bland some Wings may appear (whether on purpose on not) on camera, the show for Wings fans will be hilarious:

From Yahoo Sports’ Dmitry Chesnokov:

Datsyuk: “For next year’s Winter Classic I need to read more books and come up with a follow up about the Universe and celestial objects.”
...
BTW, Datsyuk and Bryzgalov were roomies in Vancouver during the Olympics. “But we didn’t talk about space,” Datsyuk said.

FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($6.500m)  
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / David Jones ($2.750m)  
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Darren Helm ($1.200m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m)/Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.350m)/ Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Josh Harding ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,533,379; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,466,621

I also left left space under the cap in case it takes more to sign some of the UFAs so the posters who automatically assume Parise/Suter will sign for absurd contracts don't jump down my throat.

If we are talking about Filppula, what about packaging him and Franzen to Anaheim for Perry? Would that be enough? Would you have to throw in Mursak? I am all for ANY trade getting Franzen the "F" out of Detroit...

Geesh, where's "The Realist" when you need him to tell me what's gonna happen and what would work and not be over or under payment?

(for the record, I am not advocating trading Filppula, but if a package gets someone like Perry or Nash in return, then ok)

wow, I think you've already made it abundantly clear you want Franzen out.  Way to hijack another thread.

In reference to what you said about Franzen I wouldnt be against it if it brought in the right player.  To me, I would want someone other than Perry.

Personally, I think Trotz said that to Lidstrom because he realizes that if Lidstrom returned it would make it that much more difficult (cap-wise) for the Wings to sign Suter.  This is all strategy and posturing by Trotz.

Ok, in all seriousness yeah it's a nice thing to say

Ya,I went back through your original post, sorry for my confusion.  I still think it will be a mistake to sign Hudler, and then I added that I think Olli wouldn't be good here.  He floats more than Franzen...


Funny thing is, you know when you say to yourself "I have a weird feeling about this" and then all of a sudden it happens? That may be that voice in your head...God I hope you are wrong!!!

On the other hand, I do like your lineup, especially without Hudler, but I don't like this team with Franzen anymore...but if noone will take him, I guess he stays. Worried about Lids though, it may be over...

I would be willing to bet a lot that Franzen is still a Wing come next October.  

That being said, I think he and the wings are much better served with him in a third line role.  I think he needs players like Helm and Bertuzzi playing a grinding style where the way you score is by driving the net and working pucks down low.  I dont think Franzen works that well with Datsyuk because Datsyuk has the puck so much and Franzen as to act only as a shooter.  I think Franzen is more effective when he has the puck on his stick and drives hard down low.