Shady Ultima

To their credit, they have nothing on sabers fans.

There's such a thing as Sabres fans?

of course not but that was hardly the same situation. look at the replay from the overhead camera. you can see that the goalie gets hit by his own player and then moves his legs and then the puck goes over the line. do you honestly think the ref knew where that puck was? he just couldn't see it therefore he blew the whistle. what i have issue with is the uncertainty part. again, remember hossa in '09? the only reason watson (i think) blew the whistle is because he didn't know where the puck was and assumed hiller had it. but from our vantage point you can clearly see even hiller didn't know where the puck was.

I see what you're saying. But this situation is quite a bit different than the Hossa no-goal, from how I see it. The goalie had stopped the puck and had control of it. It was underneath his right pad. He KNEW it was, and was clamping down. Had his own player not crashed into him, the puck wouldn't have gotten loose. The ref saw the puck go into the goalie's pads. That's ALL he needs to see, and that's the end of the play. By the time the puck was in the net, it should not have been a goal. The play was dead when the goalie stopped the puck.

so what? it was his own player that did it. what i am saying is that the play should be allowed to play itself out until it is really over not until the referee judges it to be over.

That's not how these things work. If a goalie has covered the puck with his glove, and the whistle goes, and he lifts his hand, and a player shoots it into the net... is that a goal too?

The puck was covered, the play was over. The ref was not at fault here. He did the right thing. The puck was completely under the goalie, it had no way of moving at the time the whistle was blown. It slid into the net as the goalie was pushed aside, AFTER the whistle was blown. There's no way in HELL that's a goal. EVER.

The funny thing is, perhaps it's the blind loyalty that is keeping the leafs down.  If these people wouldn't be so ready to still pay big money for tickets and everything else despite chronically being known as "Loserville," perhaps the financial pressure might force some changes to be made.  To me, it's dumb to want to pay for an inferior product year after year.   So no, maybe Leafs fans don't deserve better.

This is exactly the problem. You pay for the inferior product and the product WON'T get better. The people who make the money don't care about winning or losing. They care about money. Look at the Chicago Cubs. 102 Years since they won, and they make money, so they don't care to get better.

So what you are saying is they love their hockey and their team so much it in fact makes them stupid? They happen to be that much more passionate than you, so they deserve to lose? That makes tons of sense.

That's not what he was saying at all. Maybe if you READ the post, and actually understand it, you wouldn't respond with such a snide comment. The problem is, that their blind loyalty to a poor quality tells the ownership that they don't have to improve. When a team is bad, the fans SHOULD stop paying money, otherwise, the team won't bother to get better. If Detroit was a last place team, I'd still watch on TV or my Computer, but I would not buy tickets or any other memorabilia. The fact that they sell out every game only encourages their ownership to put a s***ty product on the ice. It has nothing to do with their passion making them deserve to lose. It's that they continue to pump money into the pockets of people who ONLY care about money. A winning team is only as good as the money it makes.

That being said, Habs fans nearly burned the city to the ground after they won one playoff series.

Imagine what Leaf fans would do to Toronto if the Leafs won the Cup.

To compare Montreal residents to Toronto residents is ridiculous. Yes, both teams have hardcore fans. Have you ever BEEN to Montreal? The people there are crazy. ALWAYS. It's just a psycho city. Beautiful, and a lot of fun... but crazy.

Toronto is a lot more business oriented, and so people are a lot more reserved. Try comparing New York to Miami. Miami is a party city, and is completely crazy, but New York is a work city and a lot more reserved.

Not much to say coming from Edmonton. It is known after all as the Crime Capital of Canada!

Pot... meet Kettle!

Man, I think it's interesting just how much respect Illitch has for the people around him. Some owners would have told him that their word was final.

I don't think we 'took the night off' at all. The first two periods were fantastic, fast paced hockey. The back to back games is what killed us, because in the third it was very noticeable that we completely just slowed down, especially in the defensive zone.

I think the better question is : Is there really anybody who doesn't want Lidstrom back next season?

Until the Wings lose a game with them in net, then the box score fans will be out in force to declare one needs a certain save % per game in order to be a goalie in the NHL.

Oz could have played the breakaway a little better.. that was the only fault I saw. Nothing one could do about picking the corners as he was in position and can't take up 100% of the net, even at such an angle. I've never known Ozzie to be a good shootout tender, so wasn't surprising he didn't save that first breakaway, but he did save another breakaway afterwards. The main thing to ask is why the hell the defense keeps letting forwards behind them so far up ice. Ozzie is a convenient target for knee jerk reactions so I have little respect for the opinion of anyone who makes such early declarations that he needs to go. At best, they aren't very smart, at worst, they're crappy trolls.

I watched the whole game, so I'm not quite a 'box score fan'. The truth is, he was godawful in that first period, but he definitely improved throughout the game. The problem I've noticed with Ozzie is that he tends to be very, very bad in the first, which usually has us playing catch up for the rest of the game. I'd like to see Ozzie get better, because I AM a fan of his. I've almost always defended him, but the third goal especially was just horrible.

And he did say in the after game interview that he should have had it, but he needed to get the rust off.  I think he needs some regular games so get going.  I understand that Howard is #1 goalie now, but you can't expect him to play in 99% of the games and perform well.  They need to have a good back up goalie and Osgood can be that if given a proper chance.

I'd like to see Ozzie play a bit more. He's not the goalie he used to be though, and I think it's getting close to the time where he might need to retire. As much as I have loved Ozzie, the time comes for all players, and I think his is getting near. That's why I suggested that AFTER this season, we look at a new backup, and Auld and Conklin would be my first choices.

Howard and Larsson next season IMO. Maybe McCollum if he shows major improvement in the AHL, although he ideally needs another year.

I don't know what's going on contract wise with Larsson, but I'd prefer to have a more experienced tender in goal. Next year will only be Jimmy's third in the league, and as good as he has looked so far, he is still young. If Osgood retires, which is the only way he'll be leaving the Red Wings, we should find a goalie who can fill Ozzie's role, to help out Jimmy.

They actually allowed something that stupid to be posted? The ignorance of the whole post is ridiculous.

(The Wings made a mistake bringing back Lidstrom for 6.2 mill, because he isn't worth it anymore.

Lidstrom hardly 'lost a step' (as so many say) last year. He was still extremely solid and scored closed to 50 points, all while playing for a team that was essentially Grand Rapids for half the year.

Though I think Detroit has a great team, they are too inconsistent (I think because of how old they are getting).  They put up 7 goals in a playoff game, then they can't find the back of the net in the next game.  

To look at two different games is silly. Things like that happen all the time. If you look back at any of the teams in last years playoffs, you'll probably find that most of them had a high scoring game, followed by at least one low scoring game.

Detroit has been the model for consistency for a long time. Age has nothing to do with it. We have about 5 players who are old, the rest are in their prime, or are young players, just entering their prime.

It will be tough to take on Chicago...  In a 7 games series only two teams really match up against them (pens and wings)  

Have you missed the massive list of players who Chicago lost? They lost about 7 players. Sure, most were bottom liners, but the fact is, you don't win a cup with just 2 lines. You need to have four lines, all working hard. Chicago will make the playoffs, but they won't make it past the second round (if they make it past the first) Take this from one of the few people on here who actually LIKE the Hawks as a team (I hate 90% of their fans though)

Knock the pens all you want i'm just saying--- this ISN'T the detroit team from 3 years ago.  (thank god because that was a scary fu***** team)  

There aren't a whole lot of different players from that team from 3 years ago.

Goalies:
07/08 - Osgood/Hasek (Howard was #3)
10/11 - Howard/Osgood

Not much change there. Hasek didn't even play in the playoffs, and Howard showed last year he has the potential to be amazing. Much better than Fleury...

Defense:
07/08 - Lilja, Quincey, Lidstrom, Meech, Lebda, Stuart, Chelios, Rafalski, Stafford, Kindl, Ericsson, Kronwall
10/11 - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Salei, Kindl

Again, not much difference. Most of the players we had in 08 that are gone, either were not very good (Meech, Lebda and Quincey at the time), old (Chelios). I don't even KNOW who Stafford is, so I doubt he was very important at all.

Offense:
07/08 - Abdelkader, Cleary, Drake, Maltby, Downey, McCarty, Hudler, Samuelsson, Helm, Kopecky, Franzen, Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Draper, Zetterberg, Ritola, Hartigan, Filppula
10/11 - Abdelkader, Andersson, Bertuzzi, Callahan, Cleary, Coetzee, Datsyuk, Draper, Eaves, I.Filppula, V.Filppula, Franzen, Helm, Holmstrom, Hudler, Johnson, Maltby, Miller, Minard, Modano, Owens, Ritola, Tardif, Tatar, Zetterberg

This year's lineup includes a few new faces. Many of whom I know nothing about, and includes many GR prospects who won't see much playing time. The only real differences are:
Gone - Drake, Downey, McCarty, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Hartigan
Come - Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller, Modano

Aside from the fighters, we haven't lost much. Modano is at least as good as Drake was, Eaves/Miller are both very good PKer's who also add more offense than any of the players except Sammy, and Bert is a solid player. So, aside from Sammy, we haven't lost anyone who hasn't been replaced, OR upgraded.

You're very right. We're not the 07/08 Wings. We're much, MUCH better. I'd say the only Wings line-up that was better would be the 02 lineup, but in the salary cap days, NO team has had 3 scoring lines as good as this years team. Our third line is better than many team's second lines.

The wings D isn't EVEN CLOSE to the Pens D--- take your aging Rafalski's and Lidstrom--- Who in their right minds could argue that Detroit's D is better than Pittsburghs?  This isn't 2007-08

I'd say everyone in the world would take Lidstrom alone over the entire Pen's D core. Lidstrom has been the most dominant defensemen in recent history, and one of the best ever. Rafalski is still a top-notch offensive D-man. Many knock him for his defensive zone play, but that was never his strength. He showed at the Olympics, and during our post-olympic run that he still has what it takes to play. Add on top of that Stuart and Kronwall, who are as good or better than some other teams first pairing.

Salei and E are a bit of a question mark, especially Ericsson. The guy has potential to be a very, very good d-man, top 4 material for sure, he just has to get going. We've seen him at his best before, and he was amazing. Last year was a let down, sure, but it was his real rookie year. He's only getting better.

Mule and Bert could make some magical things happen if they play like they did in game 4 against San Jose.

Oh, god yes. They were both amazing. Lets hope that kind of play is more consistent this year.

I think all the lines look good, top to bottom. Our biggest question mark this year is definitely Howard, who may be awesome, or may have a slump. I think he'll do good, because he has one of the best mentors available. Osgood may never get the recognition he deserves, but he is a solid goalie because of his mind game, more so than his physical game. If Howard can take that from him, and never be rattled, the kid will do fine.

Other than goal, as long as we remain relatively healthy, and can play consistently through the entire season, I can see really, really good things for this team.

God, people need to forget the 'too old' thing. Every year we're too old, and every year we do it. Almost as long as I've been a fan of Detroit, we've been too old. Yet we've won more cups in the past 20 years than anyone else. Maybe everyone else is just too young?

Shanahan - Yzerman - Franzen
Hull - Federov - Holmstrom
Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Hossa
Maltby - Draper - McCarty

Lidstrom - Rafalski
Stuart - Kronwall
Fisher - Chelios

Cujo
Legace

(Can't wait for the hate)

I miss Shanny. He was one of my favourite all time Wings.

I think they're pretty even. I do believe Lemieux minus his injuries would have been the best. He was better naturally then Gretzky, but Yzerman is definitely in the top 5. But when you look at the whole picture, not just their total points, but their entire skill set, it becomes much harder.

I'd rather have Yzerman if I had a team with a lot of other players who could score, and needed more D and Leadership.

I'd rather have Lemieux if I had a team that was solid defensively and just needed someone to come in and score goals.

As for the Messier mention above, I'd never want Madonna Messier on my team. It's an insult to all leaders in the NHL that the trophy for Leadership is named after that *******.