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#2322961 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Hatethedrake! on 30 July 2012 - 09:55 AM

Yes lets forget that the Wings had the best D corp in the game during those cup runs, Feds was a piece just as Shanny was, and with no cap the Wings did whatever they needed to do to get the best team on the ice. Without 91 the Wings would have got some one to replace him, that was how they operated, when they thought another team was better, Illitch opened up the checkbook.

Lets look at the cup rosters:
96-97 (BTW feds was on the team for 6 years, this was the year they traded for Shanny, hmm who was the missing piece?)
Shanny, Feds, Yzerman, Larionov, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Murphy, Lids, Kozlov, Lapointe, etc...
97-98 had all the same great names and added a very very good young goaltender to the roster.

Was feds important, damn straight, was he the main reason, no! No one was, the whole team was amazing,
Team D was unreal, hard, physical team to play against, with high end talent, Feds added a dimension of speed and high end talent, no doubt about it.

And your argument that Feds was against the top lines of the other teams is pretty moot considering at this time (and I could be wrong) Feds, Shanny, and Yzerman spent a fair amount of time on the ice together.

To say Feds is responsible for any of the championships in Det is ridiculous, especially the 02 one; in which if it weren't for a one legged Yzerman barely picking himself up of the ice, using his stick as a crutch to get up, single handidly carrying the team past Vancouver, which if Feds had done in 93-94 or 00-01 maybe I think differently of him.

The D and the style of play got them the back to back cups, 2002 Yzerman willed them through the first round, then the team took over after that.

Feds was great, not jersey in the Joe Rafters great.

I completely disagree with eveything you said in your post and here is why...You say Fedorov could have been replaced. With who? That is pure speculation. Number one centres do not grow on trees and teams who have them hardly ever trade them. Your logic is seriously flawed here. At the time, say 1996, who would Bowman (GM at the time) have replaced Fedorov with? Joe Sakic? Peter Forsberg? Yeah, I am sure the Avs would have been willing to trade 1 of those players to their hated arch rivals. Eric Lindros? The point here is that there was no one who was going to replace Fedorov in the line-up. Why do you think the Wings matched Carolina's offer sheet in 1998? They knew he could not have been replaced which is why they paid the high price of keeping him.

Your point is moot and nothing but speculation yet again regarding time on the ice. Did Shanny kill penalties? Who was on the ice more on the penalty kill than Fedorov was? Lidstrom? Amongst the forwards, Fedorov was relied on the most by Bowman. He even said it himself numerous times. You know just because you don't like Fedorov doesn't mean he wasn't a great hockey player. Your refer to 2002. Yzerman playing on 1 leg was great. However do you really believe the Wings win that Cup without Fedorov? Yzerman didn't add much scoring wise after the Canucks series. Fedorov was our best player. We don't win anything that year without him. To think otherwise makes you look like you don't know anything about the game. You do not like Fedorov and are basing your flawed argument on it.

I also do not believe we win any of those Cups without Lidstrom. He was that important. It isn't Fedorov' fault he had talented players around him. He made those guys better as well. You don't appreciate Fedorov's career, that is your opinion. Not mine.

#2322948 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Hatethedrake! on 30 July 2012 - 09:19 AM

Sergei Fedorov was an absolute force on the ice. He was just as good defensively as he was offensively. He had the perfect belend of size, speed and skill and had talent coming out of his ass. Did he show up each night? No. Was he a clutch player who could elevate his game when it mattered most? Yes. Was he a dink off the ice? Yes. Would I have liked his dad to shut his pie hole? Yes. Did I think Anna Kournikova was the sexiest woman on the planet? Yes.

The Wings don't win any of those 3 Cups in '97, '98, and 2002 without #91 in the line-up. To think otherwise would mean you are a complete jackasss. Fedorov always had to play against our opponents top lines and top dmen and always excelled. I love Steve Yzerman and everything he brought to the Red Wings. However, the WIngs did not become real Cup threats until Fedorov came here. I recall 1994 when Stevie was injured and Sergei showed everyone how special he really was. He won the Hart Trophy and deservedly so.

I know he has his detractors. I was pissed when he played his little holdout game in 1998. I also did not like when he rejected a personal contract offer from Illitch which would have paid him 50 mil over 5 years back in 2003. He said he had to "think about it." Hey I am not saying Fedorov is without criticism. But he deserves to have his number 91 hanging from the rafters at the Joe. I hope someday the Illitch Family, Holland and Feds can bury the hatchet and once again celebrate the great career he had. I watched his guy his entire career as a Red Wings and I still recall some of the plays he made which I still stand in awe about.

As much as I like Datsyuk as a player, he was not as talented as Feds was. Dats has a much stronger work ethic. He steals the puck away better than Sergei did. However Sergei was much harder to defend than Dats is. Fedorov had the speed and the skill and the shot to beat you a number of ways. Other teams had to figure out ways to stop him and usually failed in doing so.

Fedorov was always my favourite Red Wing next to Yzerman. I have always felt that Feds got a bad rap from most Wings fans. I know many of you appreciated Sergei's play as I did. I am not bashing anyone here. As a whole, I think Fedorov's excellent career went unappreciated here. He made that Sam Jones comment years ago and it did not go over well. I think he was right in some respect. I believe alot of Wings fans were always looking for a reason(s) to bash the guy.

I know what he brought to this team and will always appreciate it. He is one of the all time Red Wings greats and that is saying something. As I said before, I don't care what anyone says, we don't win ANY of those 3 Cups without #91.

#2322973 Your thoughts on Sergei Fedorov

Posted by Hatethedrake! on 30 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

I appreciate what he did, I even called him world class, even called him one of the most talented players, because you choose to ignore the shifts he took off does not mean I have to.

I admitted the whole team won championships, not just Yzerman.

But since you brought up 01-02 again here is another tidbit for you, who led the team in scoring that playoff run?

Thats right Stevie Y with 6g 17a and 23pts,
Lids 16pts (5 goals), hull 18 pts (10 goals), shanny 19 pts(8 goals), feds 19 pts (5 goals). Goals Highlighted to refute your point, Hull was the beast in the later rounds! Hell Homer had 8 goals that year.

Yet another season where the team (after the first round) was playing great and so was Feds. Point out a year to me were Feds did the heavy lifting alone?
What year did he carry the team?

Now look at the amount of years he had high post season point totals, and look at how many other Wings had great stats too.

They won as a team and lost as a team, neither Stevie nor Feds single handily won the team the cup, however Yzerman single handily won them a few series, even when the likes of Feds, Shanny and the rest were struggling. Where as Feds (again) was at his best when the team was at its best.

As far as replacing him, you saying you couldn't replace him is just as speculative, in 96-97 Feds was 44th in scoring(30th in goals), behind the likes of Ziggy Palffy, Hull, Kariya, Selanne, Bondra, Nolan, Moginly, Rechhi, Graves, Fluery, Yashin, Amonte, Stumpel, Weight, Damphouse etc...
95-96 he was 10th (again one of his two great seasons).
98-99 he was just behind Ray Whitney at 31st.

My point you may be asking, could they have replaced his production with one player for his entire career, no way in hell, but 2 or 3 players could have done it, and in fact anyone in 97-98 would have been more productive than Feds when he held out.

Who says the Wings don't trade Feds for Palffy one year, then get Tkachuk later or whoever. The wings were deep at center and had multiple lines with 2 centers on it. But again all speculation on both our parts.

Was Feds an important piece, very much so yes, was he as important as Stevie, no.

Does he deserve his # retired, no.
Is he HOF, questionable and I only say that due to the amount of HOFers with his stats.
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 500 goals?
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 1200 points?
If he made it would I be upset, no not at all congrats, there are bigger travesties in omissions and election into the HOF.

Either way my point is he doesn't deserve his number retired in the Red WIng org.

Got distracted during this post it may not make the sense I wanted.

My like or dislike of Feds has nothing to do with it. Maybe this will help:

If part of the requirements in EDM were that players were lifelong, die hard, committed to the Org above all else neither of them would be retired in EDM, that is what makes retiring a number in Det so difficult and what keeps Feds out of the rafters.

Oh God, where do I start? LOL You're a stats guy,I get it. I go by what I see. If a player goes up the ice and deques through the entire team and then passes puck off to a teammate to score in the empty net then you would give credit to the goal scorer. As well as Yzerman played (on 1 leg) in that '02 playoff run, he was nowhere near the force Fedorov was. Offensively or defensively. He just wasn't. He was limited with the injury he had. Fortunately, the Wings had the luxury of having Fedorov to pick up the slack. Holmstrom was better than Fedorov in the Cup run...LMAO. Wow. Are you listening to yourself? Fedorov did carry the team many times over many years. As much as I love Steve Yzerman, he wasn't perfect. He had bad games too. There were times I wondered where he was or why he wasn't as effective as he should have been. But that's hockey. You can't be the best all the time. I mean Lidstrom was close though. 97, 98 and 2002 Fedorov DID carry this team. You just have to go back to the games and watch them and take your Sergei hatred blinders off. I still recall that OT goal in 98 against the Caps. How many players could have scored that goal? It was awesome. That was just one example. Your player list of guys like Palffy, Whitney, Kariya, Selanne, Bondra, Nolan, etc are ALL wingers. Feds was a CENTRE. In replacing Feds, the Wings would have had to acquire a centre. You still have not answered my question. Likely because you can't. WHO would the Wings have been able to replace Feds with at the centre position? If he was so invaluable to the team as you allude to, should it have not been easy to do? In your fictional Fantasy Land, who is this player? Even if there was a player, could the Wings have been able to trade for him? You really think Keitch Tkachuk, a guy who never even played in a Cup Final would have been able to replace Fedorov? Give me a break guy. Doug Weight and Vinny Damphosse? Do you even watch hockey? LOL

You only look at offensive numbers to support your biased and flawed argument. Lidstrom was our best dman after Vladdy could not play anymore. Fedorov was our 2nd best defensive player. There are no stats to measure defensive dominance. Even the plus minus stat is a flawed one for a variety of reasons and most coaches and GMs agree with this. It is not wihout merit though. If anything, Fedorov's presence made all other players on the team better. He drew the best lines. Yzerman could play on the 2nd line, Larionov could centre a 3rd line. Or Yzerman could play with Feds and be better utilized. A great player is measured by how he impacts the game and the players around him. Fedorov did that for a number of years. His career speaks for itself.

As for stats, Feds played an exceptional 2 way game. He sacrificed stats for the betterment of the team. Just like Yzerman had to learn how to be a complete player at both ends of the ice when Bowman came, so too did Fedorov. Feds could have been on a run and gun team in his prime and put up god like stats. But the Wings demanded its scorers be defensively responsible. Bowman rolled 4 lines and wore opponents down. Feds did not get the same ice time like Lindros was. Or Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes. The 80s were far different than the 90s. The game had changed big time by then. It's apples and oranges. Yzerman had better stats because he dominated in an era where defense was not played until the playoffs. It isn't his fault. Yzerman was as dominant as anyone except for Gretzky, Messier and Lemieux. However in the 90s, Feds was just as dominant in a way in which you can not measure by stats alone. Mike Gartner scored over 700 goals in his career. So why did Neil Smith trade him to the Leafs for Glenn Anderson in 1994? Because he knew whan Anderson could add to his Rangers that Gartner could not. However, in your mesure, Gartner was the better player because he scored more goals. Anyone who followed hockey in the 80s knows Anderson was a better player and a more clutch player and a much better playoff player. This is just one example why stats guys don't get too far in hockey arguments.

Your Edmonton reference makes no sense to me. The only reason why Feds does not have his #91 retired in the Joe's rafters is based on one thing. He and Illitch had a falling out. Period. Was Sergei partly to blame for that? Yes, I believe he is. However it has nothing to do with his career as a Red Wing. His career will always speak for itself. Whether you like him or you didni't like him is moot. He was one of the greatest Red Wings of all time and nothing you or anyone else says will ever take away from that.

#2322474 Semin signs one year, $7m deal with Carolina

Posted by number9 on 27 July 2012 - 12:16 PM

Holland has been awful, but we will know the full awfulness that is Ken Holland when he pulls his final move. Holmstrom for 1 more year at 1.5 million. Its amazing to watch a lot of people defend the guy while our team goes downhill despite having a good core to build around. Scotty Bowman was the hockey mind, and jimmy d and haakan andersson were the pioneers. Ilitch was the wallet. Holland is a dope.

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#2322270 Semin signs one year, $7m deal with Carolina

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

How on earth is it that he could be a reclamation project? Holland's reclamation projects are the likes of Cleary and Samuelsson: guys with talent whose careers have reached a nadir and who are effectively below the radar. Semin absolutely does not fit into this category.

Other than the part about being effectively below the radar, how does Semin not fit that category?

He's a guy with a ton of talent who's career has basically reached it's low point, relatively speaking. He's being trashed in the media and has a questionable reputation in terms of his work ethic.

A one year deal gives him everything to prove. Either he busts his ass and earns a good contract next year, or he does more of the same, his star continues to fall and he either runs to the KHL or accepts an even smaller contract. If he joined the Wings for a year and turned it around, then they have the chance to sign him for more years.

It's not that unlike what Holland has done with Cleary, Bert and Sammy. It's just a star player version of it.

#2321888 Doan staying in PHX 4 yrs $21.2 mill

Posted by vladdy16 on 25 July 2012 - 01:21 PM

See, if we sign Doan, we wouldn't be able to do things like this:

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#2322161 Semin signs one year, $7m deal with Carolina

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 26 July 2012 - 02:42 PM

7 bills? Glad he's not coming. It was just like a, let's pull the trigger on this guy because we can, not because we have to.

Ride that cap space Kenny, we'll get something done!

We definitely didn't have to. It would've been fun to see what he'd do with Dats though.

Of course, there's also the risk that the Wings would've added another extremely talented player with a questionable work ethic. For one year though, that's not a huge risk.

Not heartbreaking, but the one-year deal would've made it more attractive. I figured Semin would be looking for longer term headed into the CBA. And with a one year deal, you'd have to think he's more likely to bust his ass to prove his doubters wrong and get the big payday next year.

#2321698 Predators match offer sheet to Shea Weber

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 24 July 2012 - 08:49 PM

I probably shouldn't encourage the anti-Crosby obsession here but this was just too funny.

From https://twitter.com/hockeymemes

cute couple.jpeg

#2321679 Predators match offer sheet to Shea Weber

Posted by PredsFanTheBayouState on 24 July 2012 - 08:10 PM

the shea weber flyer jerseys are going to a good cause:

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#2321450 Bobby Ryan

Posted by Hatethedrake! on 24 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

The only thing is that Ryan's price will be much higher than Nash was. Murray can deal him to any team because Ryan does not have a no trade clause. Still, I'd give up Flip, Nyquist and a 1st to get a deal done. I'd be willing to give up Mule but I doubt Murray would want him.

#2321330 Rick Nash traded to the New York Rangers

Posted by Hatethedrake! on 23 July 2012 - 06:32 PM

At least Kenny is trying. He expressed interest in Yandle at the draft. He was in on Parise and close on Suter. He made an offer for Nash. He has likely inquired about Ryan. Kenny is likely a little frustrated right now but it's just not lining up this summer. I'd be pissed if he wasn't trying at all. It's much easier for me to go on Capgeek and make fantasy moves but it is far from being this easy in reality. Kenny is doing the best he can right now. How does a GM improve his team right now without totally screwing over the future? Everyone applauds Holmgren in Phlly as this genius for signing Weber to an offer sheet. So what happens when guys like Giroux, Schenn, Couturier, etc. contracts expire? Trade them to LA? He has a 7 million dollar wannabe comedian in net in Bryzgalov. Kenny doesn't blow up his team each summer like many teams do. He can't help it that Rick Nash played for Columbus which virtually made any potential trade impossible. He can't help it that the Thunder Buddies wanted to marry each other in Minny. The summer is not over yet. Don't count Kenny out. He has the cap space, the tradeable assets and the wherewithawl to make something happen. He will do SOMETHING. What that is, I don't know.

#2320122 Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet: 14y/$110m ($56m 1st 4yrs)

Posted by Crymson on 19 July 2012 - 02:40 AM

But that post wasn't just about Weber anyway, it seems all offseason hes a day late and a dollar short, instead of making a bold move, it seems hes content with taking this team into next season come hell or high water, and that's my problem.

He WAS making a bold move in being one of the major players involved in trade talks with the Predators. Sending Weber an offer sheet would have been foolish, not bold; the Predators would have certainly matched an offer sheet from a divisional rival, and this would mean a guarantee of seeing Weber six or more times per season for the rest of his career. It would have made even less sense in light of the fact that a trade was possible.

I understand you're upset, but what you're saying makes no sense.

If they could afford to match it then good for them but at least we would have had a chance at landing him. I guess all I'm trying to say is I believe that we would have had a better chance at signing him to an offer sheet rather than trying to work out a trade. Could be wrong - just my opinion.

It indeed could be wrong. I think it is.

even better,trade him at the deadline :devil:

The trade deadline is in February. A calendar year would end in July of next season.

#2320118 Flyers sign Weber to offer sheet: 14y/$110m ($56m 1st 4yrs)

Posted by FlashyG on 19 July 2012 - 02:27 AM

wtf,lol...a predator is Holmgren :lol:

I'd match it for sure and trade him to the Pens next day...if I were Poile :evil:

If Nashville matches they are not allowed to trade him for a calendar year.

#2319779 Red Wings make "helluva" offer for Nash, no response

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 July 2012 - 01:09 PM

For real... I am scratching my head at the lack of intellectual honesty being displayed in some of these posts. "I heard..." and "Reports say..." ....and therefore Holland blows!!!! eh... really?

IF it's true that Holland made a "hell of a offer" ... we can probably safely assume that it was something *more* than Franzen, prospect, pick or Fillpula, prospect, pick......

The thing is the "helluva an offer" is an equally weak source.

The reality is we don't really know anything more than we did before. Either way, it seems extremely unlikely the Blue Jackets would deal Nash to Detroit.

#2319759 Red Wings make "helluva" offer for Nash, no response

Posted by esteef on 18 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

That's one "Holland' of an offer!" :cheesy: