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#2182493 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 04 June 2011 - 01:54 AM

Wow. This thread is still chugging along. Eva, I think you've broken a record for player defense threads. I can't figure your unwaivering loyalty to Huds but it is impressive. He should make you his agent.

I personally think his days are numbered as a red wing. If Holland can find a way to trade, waive, release him before his contract is up, he will.

I disagree. If Holland wanted to get rid of Hudler, he'd have been gone at the deadline because he was as hot at that point as any Wing was all season. Babcock wasn't using Hudler in a top-six role, so trading Hudler for a top-pairing shut-down defenseman and simply replacing Hudler internally in the bottom six with a grittier, more defensive forward like Miller or Draper would have happened. Holland, and perhaps even Babcock, think later December through the end of February is what they can expect from Hudler going forward. Not what they saw at the start of the year.

#2181786 Jonathan Ericsson's Value?

Posted by Detroit # 1 Fan on 01 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

Hopefully his value is alot... so he doesn't re-sign.

#2181570 Paul MacLean interviews for Senators Job

Posted by darkmanx on 01 June 2011 - 01:28 AM

I'm getting visions of a defensive pairing being potentially reunitied...

Jiri Fischer and Chris Chelios anyone?

what about Hudler ?

#2181281 What can be done to go East?

Posted by evilmrt on 31 May 2011 - 01:05 PM

I have established a Facebook page and a twitter movement already!

Join me and like "Wings Must Move East" On Facebook!

Tweet about #MoveDetroitEast as much as possible and spread the word we deserve to go east!

Keep up the ideas and effort, remember if social media and protests in the streets can topple dictators, it can topple Bettman!!!

Thats awesome but shouldn't you keep the name consistent? If its a movement, you want a common name. Just saying here at the beginning before you get going, bro. :thumbup:

I'd ask Matt if he wants to get on-board with this in some way.

#2181413 The Unthinkable

Posted by Grayne Wetzky on 31 May 2011 - 07:15 PM

Lidstrom resigns with the Lightning?

If Stevie brings Lids down to Tampa Bay to bolster their chances at a cup run next year, would you still like Lidstrom? Or would your feelings change?

#2181255 What can be done to go East?

Posted by Majsheppard on 31 May 2011 - 12:27 PM

I know that the best way to move mountains is to get a ton of people to move small stones.

In our modern age whenever something needs to get done, it is the masses mobilizing that gets work done.

Now we have a year to make sure we are the team to go east, not Nashville or Columbus. What can we use to get that to happen?

Well the Wings can use their leverage, but that might not be enough to get this done.

The other major tool at our advantage is our fanbase is far larger. We need to use it to make sure the league knows what we can do.

I suggest we use the internet and our brains to figure out a grassroots movement to ensure that we are the team to move east.

The best idea I can come up with is to make ourselves visible in front of the Arena every home game, and every away game with signs visibly demanding a move to the east, as well as events in front of NHL league offices in Toronto and New York.

This means those among us with the means to travel, or living in those markets need to get visible and loud.

I also suggest we start an internet movement pledging to boycott away games in the West if we don't get moved, and pledging to travel to eastern teams if we do. The best goal is to make it seem like the league will lose money if we don't get moved.

Anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone have the abilities to take leadership on this? Does anyone want to see us MOVE EAST!!!!

I have started a tweet thread. #MoveDetroitEast This is the start, Atlanta leaves to go West, Detroit is the only team that deserves to go East. Join us fans!

All you twitter addicts, start tweeting using #MoveDetroitEast and let the league know!

Can anyone get a website going called www.MoveDetroitEast.org or com or whatever?

Edit update: I have established a Facebook page and a twitter movement already!

Join me and like "Move Detroit East" On Facebook!

Tweet about #MoveDetroitEast as much as possible and spread the word we deserve to go east!

Keep up the ideas and effort, remember if social media and protests in the streets can topple dictators, it can topple Bettman!!!

#2180215 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 27 May 2011 - 02:27 AM

Cleary can be at par and better with Franzen. Some times.

But neither Fil or Hudler are at the same level as Franzen. Give your head a shake.

Franzen brings size, which he doesn't really utilize, and a good shot. Filppula is very good all-around, and Hudler is a great playmaker with a wicked shot. The fact of the matter is, if I had to fill out my team with one of the three, and then a bunch of Drew Miller clones, I would pick Flip. Franzen needs a playmaker. He can be a great goal scorer, but he needs a playmaker. That's his big weakness; he has to have someone to feed him. I would argue that is at least as big a weakness as Hudler's skating. And defensively Franzen has given up that edge he had in his own zone, so there's no advantage for Franzen over Hudler. We're basically talking do we want someone who can pass really well and shoot, or someone who can shoot really well but needs a passer? And Flip's defense is why he doesn't belong in this conversation; he's close to that level offensively, and provides excellent defense.

#2177883 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 21 May 2011 - 12:30 AM

Correct. I mean, look at Jimmy. Ask everyone what they think at this exact second and then ask what they think about Huds. It's 'what have you done for me lately?' in Hockeytown always.

Huds wasn't given credit for being one of the team's best players in the second half until he was scoring like crazy on Datsyuk's wing. And even then, it was "he only plays well with Datsyuk" so to argue "what do people think of him now is a loaded argument. Hudler's last 35 games were FAR better than Franzen's last 35. Hudler outplayed Franzen against Phoenix even before Franzen's injury, and was better against the Sharks. Yet Franzen gets "Oh, it's ok, he was injured" for the playoffs and in the regular season it's "he'll be awesome in the playoffs" while Hudler is "he's too small/slow" or if he was knocked down it's "damn weakling, replace him with (insert random big-bodied player here)" so it's not really fair. People think Franzen is an elite scoring winger because of what he can do sometimes in the playoffs or the streaks he has gone on. It's not true. Filppula is the team's third-best forward, and Franzen and Hudler are about equal in ability. Cleary is just behind them in the #6 spot.

You still haven't answered one of my questions. And that was, did Hudler only play 11 games in a top 6 role?

And Crymson beat me to it, people brought up the amazing run Franzen had in '08.

Do you really think it's possible that he could score 105 points? Really?

Hudler played maybe 15-20 games in a top-six role. And he scored nearly a point-per-game for a stretch of about 30 games. Only two other forwards on the team scored at/near a point-per-game for the entirety of their top-six time this season. Z and Dats. Franzen, Cleary, scored close to 0.7 PPG. Bert, Flip, Homer and Huds all had about 0.5 per game. Huds was the only one who played outside the top six most of the year. Even with his 30-game scoring slump where he played a considerable amount on the fourth line, he still ended up tied for seventh in team points in the regular season. Give him a chance in the top-six and he'll tear it up. Not 105 points, but I would put him down for third on the team if everyone stays healthy.

#2179584 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 25 May 2011 - 01:42 PM

Hudler had a nice little spurt of point production between Christmas and the end of February. Thats pretty much it. Following that, he went pointless for seven games and finally started doing something again around the beginning of the playoffs (as others had mentioned, so did the rest of the team.) Franzen's longest pointless drought was 4 games, while Hudler's was 13. To even fathom the notion that Hudler is as/more valuable than Franzen makes one question your sanity.

It's easy to not have a long pointless streak playing with Datsyuk. What would March and April have looked like if the Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary line hadn't been broken up for those last 15 games? If Hudler scores at the same pace he did while it was together, he's around 50 points on the season.

Yes, Hudler wasn't scoring early on. I wonder how "elite scorer" Franzen would have done without Dats or Z to feed him?

#2179606 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 25 May 2011 - 02:16 PM

This is exactly what we've been trying to tell eva this entire thread, read the last few pages. We've all mentioned it, his play on the ice isn't that great and you simply cannot take one of his hot streaks and say that merits him getting top-six time on a consistent basis. Eva simply refuses to listen to reason.

Who deserves top six ice time ahead of him? Todd Bertuzzi, who had it all season, largely with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and scored only a couple more points? Hudler belongs in the top six, whether you think he's one of the top six forwards on the team or not. He may be streaky, but so is Franzen and people here seem to think Franzen is one of the league's top forwards, when Franzen isn't even one of the three best forwards on the Wings.

#2179954 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 26 May 2011 - 11:45 AM

God, please don't tell me Hudler is third best.

I never bothered ranking, but if I had to here's the top of my list. Remember, defense and intangibles can be just as important (if not more) as offense.

1a. Datsyuk
1b. Zetterberg

3. Franzen
4. Filppula
5. Cleary

After these two groups, I would say players like Helm, Holmstrom and Eaves are much more essential to our team than Hudler. They all have a certain niche on our team.

Z, Dats, and Flip are all better than Franzen. Hudler and Cleary are basically even with Franzen. Cleary and Franzen are both very average at passing and playmaking, while Hudler is among the best in the league in that regard. Cleary is easily the best skater and defensive forward of the three, and Franzen has the most monstrous goal-scoring ability. But overall, the three of them are on basically the same level.

#2179576 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 25 May 2011 - 01:24 PM

Being objective about Hudler is impossible for you, though. It's a Hudler thread, but if you want we can all band together and bring all your quotes from "non-Hudler" threads where he is still somehow dissected by you. Don't get bent out of shape because we are calling you on the same old nonsense. It's truly unwarranted.

I love how I am accused of not being objective about Hudler because I don't get irrationally angry about how small he is, or the fact he isn't a speedster. I have never claimed Hudler to be a superstar, I don't act like he's some kind of hero, but I get s*** on because I don't s*** on him. That's what's unwarranted.

#2179563 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 25 May 2011 - 01:04 PM

Sigh. Franzen's injury came in the second game of the series against Phoenix. He still outplayed Hudler.

Eva, I'm done discussing Hudler with you, and I'm done discussing Osgood with you. I'm not sure why, but you verge on fanaticism when you speak of them.

Hudler was just as effective offensively as Franzen in those two games, he just played about half the time Franzen did. And Hudler didn't make a huge defensive mistake that cost the team a goal right off the bat. Or do you only remember massive defensive mistakes when Hudler makes them?

Hudler may not have had a great playoffs overall, but he was better than Franzen when healthy, and better than Franzen overall.

#2179554 Hudler's Future

Posted by SouthernWingsFan on 25 May 2011 - 12:55 PM

For f**k's sake eva unit zero, you got to stop this s**t.

Explaining it another way is simple.


Give it a fricken' rest.

Franzen has more defensive potential than Hudler, you'll rarely see Hudler in there at the end of a game if the team is leading. You'll see Franzen over Hudler 99 times out of 100. You don't see Hudler play 4-on-4. You see Franzen play 4-on-4. YOU may claim or YOU may say he is a good defensive forward or above average or whatever, but coaches and people making the decisions think otherwise.

I will repeat...

YOU HAVE HUDLER BIAS in levels beyond unimaginable and annoying and you will not shut up about it. I like Hudler, it's cool that you like him, but seeing your absurd bias with him makes me want to (1) strangle you until you are temporarily unconscious and (2) see him not do well and not be here so there might come a time where you might actually shut up about him.

I. DO. NOT. CARE. THAT. BADLY. about you trying to prove that Hudler is better than he is or that Franzen was worse or that Hudler is better than Franzen or whatever numbers or stats you pull out of your rear end. And I think it's a safe bet plenty of other people in here share some of the same thought.

When it comes to letting things go regarding this, you have the I.Q. of a deck chair.

For the love of god and everything good and holy, give it a fricken' rest.

#2178789 Hudler's Future

Posted by eva unit zero on 23 May 2011 - 10:00 PM

Let's not forget that Franzen is faster, better defensively, more physical, and far more difficult to knock off the puck.

Let's look at three big defensive mistakes from the postseason. Franzen, Helm, and Hudler all let a guy walk in and receive a one-timer pass. I rank Franzen's the worst of the three, and Helm's the most forgivable.


Hudler experienced the exact same play as Helm, but the Wings were now ready for it. No excuse.

Franzen was the only one of the three who was close to the scorer, he could see him and the passer, yet he did nothing to prevent the goal.