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PavelValerievichDatsyuk

Member Since 17 Jul 2010
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#2683680 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kickazz on Yesterday, 10:22 PM

He wasn't moved off center because he's wasn't good at it. We've lacked wingers and had a bunch of lower line centers so Helm played wing. To me, his ability to play in many situations is one of his strengths.

 

Helm's not a top 6 winger. haven't seen anyone argue that. 

Precisely. Something I've noticed with the Red Wings is we've had really crappy luck where we lack top 2 centers but are filled with bottom 2 centers. Have plenty of top 9 wingers. Our lack of top 2 centers basically forced Zet to switch to Center and maintain the position which means we no longer had a good/elite winger for Datsyuk (ironically Helm became Datsyuk's winger with Tatar when Franzen went down). Helm was switched to Wing because we have too many Sheahans, Anderssons, Ferraros and Glendenings. Basically bottom 2 line centers. And none of those guys can play winger that well. Maybe Sheahan but not really. 

 

This goes hand in hand with my bitching in the other thread about Glendening. We are using players in positions because we are forced to or maybe too stubborn to, rather than being able to use them at their best.

 

I'd say Helm is our best third line center if given the opportunity again. And I'd rank him as a top third line center in the league. I don't know about being the best in the league. Maybe it's possible. 

 

It could be proven (to an extent)with math freak data but then people would get into the whole "dial-up", "blah blah advanced stats suck, I'm staying ignorant to it" conversation again :)

 

STILL HATE HIS CONTRACT THO




#2683677 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by marcaractac on Yesterday, 09:59 PM

So you're sure the evidence is there, you just don't have it.

First, TBTLC would actually have to center the third line, which he hasn't done since shortly after Babs dubbed him that. He was an unproductive second line winger until Blash moved him to Glendening's wing last year.

 

If you need evidence so bad why not Google it yourself? Not everyone on the internet cares about trying to convince random people of what they already know. 

 

This team has had identity and depth issues for a few years now. It is of zero surprise that Helm had to log a lot of top 6 minutes. Despite the fact this team is nowhere near contention, at least now there is enough depth to have actual top six players play in the top six. I'd fully expect to see Helm back on the third line this season. If not, the management of this team will just continue to show incompetence. 




#2683658 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on Yesterday, 05:37 PM

You're flat out wrong on Helm. He is not a 4th liner, he is a very good 3rd line center / winger. He may be slightly overpaid, but only by around $500K, and that's certainly not worth all the b****ing you're doing about it...

As of right now he is better in that role than all the players you mentioned, maybe with the exception of Athanasiou. Stop trying to compare Helm with Miller and Ott. They're not even close to being similar in any way, other than the team they play for and the fact that they can kill penalties. But even then there's the difference that Helm is a much better penalty killer...


#2683653 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kliq on Yesterday, 04:55 PM

Ca

 

Helm is absolutely valuable to this team... but Miller, Ott... not at all.

 

Agreed, I dont see why the false narrative of "Helm sucks" needs to be brought up in every single thread regardless of the topic being discussed. We literally have a thread for that. Ill say it again, take away E and Howards contracts, and I dont think anyone would even be talking about Helms deal in a negative way.




#2683642 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by NerveDamage on Yesterday, 01:33 PM

Cajones are a hard thing to come by

Cajon.jpg?

Just like KH, go Swede, ...go Ikea




#2683541 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by kickazz on 20 July 2016 - 06:49 PM

To be fair, D men (which he was with the WIngs, but not the Leafs) are much less likely to receive the Hart - especially after the Norris was introduced in 54. He was a runner up one year, though, and won the Norris and 3 Byngs. But you're right - Fed's Hart, 2 Selkes, and Leaster B. probably wins out, though the later 2 weren't around during Kelly's time (so it's comparing a Hart to a norris).

 

...and Feds is my all-time favourite so I'm not going say he wasn't the better one.

Should've made your username SergeiViktorovichFedorov  :brow:




#2683462 Shea Weber for Pernal Karl Subban

Posted by kickazz on 18 July 2016 - 11:44 PM

This guy will probably help this small market team grow some more. 

 

Preds really were the winners in this trade. For both on-ice and off-ice reasons.




#2683481 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by kickazz on 19 July 2016 - 01:02 PM

Despite all the flak he gets (and likely myself too because I'm bringing it up) but Darren Helm was that guy in the first half of his career. He would get short handed breakaways on a regular basis. Might not convert on most of them, but at the very least if you're skating the puck down into the other zone I would call that effective penalty killing. I am 100% on board with Helm getting some more PK time along with some of these younger kids who are a threat to tilt the ice in the opposite direction.

I agree with you. I've been vocal about having issues with his contract/term but Helm is an excellent PKer. By all eyeballs tests and math freaks data he's our best penalty killer. I'm hoping AA, Larkin can take a page out of his book for the PK. People with speed have an incredible advantage in these situations imo. 




#2683477 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 19 July 2016 - 12:35 PM

Helm is and has been one of the better penalty killers ever since he entered the league, aside from those couple injury riddled seasons...

 

When I was doing up my ideal penalty killing units, I was forgetting about Nielsen too. You always need more than 4 or 5 PK forwards anyway, so I'd throw him into the mix along with Sheahan and Abdelkader as well...




#2683476 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by Echolalia on 19 July 2016 - 12:06 PM

The PK under Babcock was fine up until 2011 or so. Things started changing to more passive/ "shot block to save a goal" bullcrap once we started transitioning from Datsyuk/Zetterberg to Miller, Eaves, then Glendening. It's fine, we didn't have anyone to fill in for D and Z's role. But now with Larkin, AA, and Helm signed for 5 years, there is absolutely no excuse not to use capable speedy, skilled players on the PK. 
 
One thing I liked about Draper more than Glendening/Miller was not only was Draper a good defensive 3rd/4th liner but the guy knew how to drive offense and often times converted his PK time into offensive opportunities. His 21 shorthanded goals and Selke trophy as a damn 4th liner (unheard of) speaks for itself. 

Despite all the flak he gets (and likely myself too because I'm bringing it up) but Darren Helm was that guy in the first half of his career. He would get short handed breakaways on a regular basis. Might not convert on most of them, but at the very least if you're skating the puck down into the other zone I would call that effective penalty killing. I am 100% on board with Helm getting some more PK time along with some of these younger kids who are a threat to tilt the ice in the opposite direction.


#2683405 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 18 July 2016 - 11:44 AM

I really like the looks of that lineup, with the latter bottom 6...

 

Miller - Glendening - Ott   - - -   Worst 4th line in the league.

Sheahan - Glendening - Helm   - - -   Best 4th line in the league.

Both are options, I wonder which one we use...

 

I don't think either of Miller or Ott should be in the lineup, but unfortunately one definitely will, I doubt two of them will though...

If both Athanasiou and Mantha are sent to Grand Rapids in favor of those two scrubs, Blashill is a f***ing moron...




#2683410 Shea Weber for Pernal Karl Subban

Posted by Hockeytown0001 on 18 July 2016 - 03:21 PM




#2683365 For the Kenny apologists, what Holland move would change your stance o

Posted by kickazz on 17 July 2016 - 06:57 PM

The Red Wings list seems pretty realistic. 




#2683360 For the Kenny apologists, what Holland move would change your stance o

Posted by kickazz on 17 July 2016 - 04:51 PM

If you had the choice between Howard, Malcolm Subban, Niemi, Riemer, Neuvirth, Fleury, Bishop, Miller, Hammond, Varlymov (as that article guesses) would you chose Howard? I don't see it happening, especially with his caphit - though Vegas probably won't have any really big contracts so they won't really have to worry about that.

To be honest, I'd pick Bishop or Varlamov first and then Howard as top 3 choices. Riemer is not very good, Fleury is good but sort of a choker and Miller is going to be 38 by the team expansion draft hits. 

 

But I get a feeling if Bishop is not going to be a Lightning it will be a trade (a Vezina finalist, I'd assume Stevie is going to want something for this guy). So the next two best goalies on the list to me would be Varlamov and Howard. 

 

Howard has the better playoff experience. It really is a toss up. The other thing is that the Vegas team will likely want to hit the cap floor. No team is going to give away their expensive superstar contracts. Goalies will likely be their best way to reach cap floor. 

 

Also, Howard's contract is only till 2019 so they would get him for about 2 years and the 2nd goalie they pick up could be someone like Subban (basically could be their future goalie). 




#2683348 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by krsmith17 on 17 July 2016 - 12:02 PM

I don't think this team is coasting because they are content in just making the playoffs every year. I believe they are trying to make the playoffs every year, while they're waiting for the next wave of kids to become impact players. The next wave will include some variation of Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Ouellet, Sproul, etc. and I believe they're almost ready. When they are, that is when this team will become competitive again. Missing or making the playoffs will have no barring on the direction this team is headed in my opinion...