Holland has done that in the past. Del Zotto would have been a decent choice over Quincey, for example, but for whatever reason he hasn't wanted to in recent years. Maybe that's more on Babcock though.
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Posted by rick zombo on 18 August 2014 - 10:45 AM
I'd recommend everyone watching the TSN story about the Pens and Lemieux some of the stuff basically admitted that they were trying to lose. Sure players would never want to lose but the front office especially GM and coach can put players into impossible situations. Like TSN mentioned playing the 3 pairing on the PK, or let the fourth line play the PK stuff like that.
Funny, how emotionally invested some posters seem to be in a Ken Holland. Yes he has done great things but after losing Yzerman, Nill he really seems to struggle and there is debate about that because the results are there since 2009. It is impossible to rebuild a team via draft or solely via UFA, the mixture needs to be there. With Pasha continuing to slow down I really hope the front office isn't banking on finding another Pasha outside of the top 3 in 2015. I don't care how many excuses people want to make the point is, he now has 4 years to change the UFA perception of this team and to lay down a plan. The current strategy of barely staying over the water won't entice players to sign here, as the core continues to age and the question marks continue to rise. Wheter some fans like to admit it or not but that's exactly how top guys are viewing this team right now.
Sometimes a step back can mean 2 steps forward in the long run, so I would have been much more happy with seeing the young guys getting a chance, create cap space and go for a top pick in one of the best drafts since 2006. Also I'm sick of Holland's if you make the playoffs everything can happen, yeah everything can happen if you are stacked as the LA Kings in most cases you are going to face the Big Bad Bear or the high powered offense of Pittsburgh = first round exit again and a worse draft pick. This is a team which needs a make over in terms of playstyle and soon on key position, you simple can't do that by drafting alone, we won't have the luck of getting a Z, Pasha or - dream on - Lidström again because every team has improved their worldwide scouting and finding gems has become harder and harder.
Shero brought the Pens a cup, a cup final experience, an ECF << more success than Holland and Lemieux decided to fire him because the expectations are sky high in Pittsburgh. The Wings lost out on top UFAs, the team became stale, complacent, UFAs shying away and hasn't even flirted with a third round since 2009 and yet Holland gets a 4 year extension. This just doesn't feel right for me.
I have nothing against Holland, he has done a lot of great things but I personally believe he has lost his inner fire to guide this team through some rough rough years and maybe the game has evolved too much for his ideas. Hopefully we can hire Shero as an assistant and if things go south have him taking over.
Not sure what you're getting at here Frank with the first paragraph, but I'd be ashamed if I was a Penguins fan. And as a Wings fan I don't think I could ever condone that organizational strategy. The Peguins tanked on purpose for about 5 years, couldn't half-fill a rink to save their lives and were 99% on the move to Kansas City. Anaheim were the statistcal favourite to win the Crosby lottery but Pittsburgh got lucky. On top of all that, after being handed soooo much, they have one cup. They are a "win now" team that isn't winning. Not even close. No wonder Shero got fired.
The Wings organizition and Holland still have high standards but they're not at the same stage from a franchize/legacy standpoint as the pens are.
Posted by number9 on 16 August 2014 - 10:15 PM
What might that be in your opinion?
Cause to me if you have a young core you let them play maybe trade less and see who and how well they develop. Not sign old over the hill players and force the young core to start in the ahl when they belong in the nhl (Hollands method).
I wasn't alive at the point in time so I don't know what the reasons are for the dead wing era.
I do know for a fact it was high draft picks that got us yzerman and others that started the upswing and the run the wings are on.
I think it's pure arrogance when peoe down the hawks pens and kings for having their high draft picks turn into stars cause the wings went through the same thing. Theirs just happened many years later.
When you have a Crosby/Malkin/Letang or Toews/Kane/Keith, you pretty much know you have them for the next 10 - 15 seasons to build around, so you're not thinking about building a new core right now, you don't know what you'll have in the next 10 to 15 seasons.
With Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Kronwall we have them for the next 3+ years. We are very much thinking about building a new core. And for the Wings a core comes from within, not from without, for a variety of reasons. If our core was younger I'd definitely expect more risky trades to be happening, because we could afford to make those possible mistakes with a young core.
Posted by Son of a Wing on 16 August 2014 - 01:37 PM
Ok when was the last time the Wings got a top ufa? My answer would be 2008 Marian Hossaand only because he badly wanted to be here. I'm just a fan but the writing has been on the wall for quite some time now and with it as saying no to Detroit Holland needs to get creative and might take the risk of losing a big trade. So what is so wrong about my statement? The game has evolved teams are now built in a much more balanced way and GMs need to react quickly and sorry but I haven't seen that drive since 2007.
Seriously Frank? Whether people like to admit it or not Alfie and Weiss were two of the biggest guys last year.
Oh you meant a player of Hossa's stature? Yeah they don't hit UFA status anymore. Parise and Suter were the last ones and 1 team out of 30 got them for hometown reasons.
Who exactly are these Hossa-calibre players we're missing out on??
Also, you couldn't be more wrong about our prospect pool. Nothing past Pulkkinen?? My god man.... I can't tell if you're trolling or just that blinded by your pessimism.
Mantha, Athanasiou, Janmark, Nosek, Nastasiuk, Larkin, Turgeon, Bertuzzi
If that's nothing then I want a whole lot more of nothing...
Posted by number9 on 14 August 2014 - 03:36 PM
Do people really think Burke will go into the season with the current flames roster they need defense. ? But if this is the final roster Hiller will need to play unreal that's for sure although I love the toughness of this team.
We know. We get it. You love fighters.
By people I'm assuming you mean me. Yes I do. He doesn't have any FA's or trade pieces available that are going to make any real impact on the team. They're going to tank. And since they're not going to be any good they've signed a lot of tough guys to put butts in seats.
Posted by number9 on 13 August 2014 - 12:20 AM
about 120 pounds on your shoulders? I hope he can handle that. Keeping balance is the difficult part and does ad a little strain, but not that much. Me and my friends used to have pool wars where put our girlfriends on our shoulders and attack each other. I'm kind of a wuss, but it was not difficult. Look if you go to festivals. There's always many skinny white dudes with a girls on their shoulders.
I was being sarcastic. Couldn't you tell???
I don't think anyone seriously here believes that. The writer is just trying to drum up news in the off-season when there isn't any... and this is the best he could do.
Posted by krsmith17 on 12 August 2014 - 07:58 PM
Kip, you absolutely did blow my mind... I have absolutely no idea what you are arguing... I say one thing and then you go on a rant about something completely irrelevant to what I am saying... Mind = Blown... I honestly have no idea whatsoever what your point was in listing all the players that would and wouldn't have helped us due to injury... Completely lost...
No Frank, you're right... There definitely weren't any fans of those teams blaming their short comings in those seasons to injuries... Not one... Only us Wings fans would do such a ludicrous thing...
Posted by rick zombo on 11 August 2014 - 10:12 PM
So then nothing we can believe is true?
Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?
When Hakan Andersson says after this years draft that “hopefully we were able to get a centre to play with Mantha” I file that under:
- things I believe to not be bulls*** hype
- things said by a super-scout about a prospect, with a level of reverence never used on Jarnkrok.
When I read Fischer’s quotes on Jarnkrok I think of the passionate way in which he spoke of Sproul in this video (starting at the 50 second mark). When he says “Sproul can shoot the puck better, harder, under pressure, than 90% of the players in the NHL” (2:45) I want to believe him, but part of me knows that there’s probably some over-zealousness in play. I imagine him looking and sounding the same way when talking about Jarnkrok:
But whatevs. Maybe I’m over-analysing. I just find it hard to accept that Holland would knowingly trade “the next Zetterberg” for David Legwand but then say that Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan are basically untouchable.
Posted by GMRwings1983 on 05 August 2014 - 11:03 PM
Lilja slipped just when he was going to open up in the fight. Moen threw some cheap punches when Lilja was down.
I still call it a draw. Can't give a guy a win when his opponent slips and he throws cheap punches at him.
Ugh I hate lame beer it's like hey I just wanted some good effing beer and all I have is this lame beer why does the universe hate me? Why does the universe hate Andreas Lilja? Why was Dmitry Mironov under appreciated as a Red Wing? Why does bread mold so fast when you leave it out on the counter, and why does that little green s*** smell so bad?
We should all just give up, we'll never have all the answers.
How come Mironov wasn't embraced like the other Russians?
He couldn't have been worse than Anders "sour face" Eriksson.
Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 03 August 2014 - 12:06 PM
I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things.
I do. People just don't like to admit it.
I am in no way saying that the people who dislike him here at LGW do so for race-related reasons, but the reality is that prejudice is, unfortunately, alive and well within the hockey community. Does he have a bit of moxie? Sure. But if he were a white Canadian *some* people wouldn't look twice at his actions or have a problem with his "attitude." I don't think there is anything over the top about P.K.'s actions, and he is a young kid who will continue to mature.
Mods, feel free to delete if you think this will stir s*** or incite politics discussions, but I felt it needed to be said.
Posted by wings4thecup06 on 02 August 2014 - 06:34 AM
I completely agree. If things went right and people stay healthy we could be a top team.
BUT when we've been injury prone why do people think it'll change this season? I like it to...but I'm a see it to believe it kind of guy. Enough of the crap "o joe blow feels good" we have ears that enough. Show me such and such player can stay healthy then I'll believe it.
I'm a big Howard fan and I believe he can be better that alone helps us out. But it'll take more then just him.
So you've essentially gone and just contradicted yourself. You say that we are 'a basement team', now we're a top team? All in the span of one page of a forum thread?
Words in CAPS aside, you're opinion that we are a mediocre team and the fact that you think that everyone in the east has got better while we have 'stayed the same', is precisely that. Opinion. I believe that lots of teams in the East didn't get better. Some stayed the same, and some got worse. That is my opinion.
Let's have a brief look at the playoff teams from last season in the East and those on the bubble who missed out:
Bruins - Lost Iginla, lost Thornton. Are still over the cap and haven't yet signed Reilly Smith or Torey Krug yet, so they're going to have to move someone. While still an elite team, losing a 30 goal scorer and a key 4th line component doesn't make them better, it means they got worse
Tampa - IMO the team in the East that improved the most. Added Brenden Morrow and Brian Boyle up front to replace Purcell and Thompson most likely. They re-signedCallahan. Solidified their backup position by signing Nabokov. Big addition on the backend is Stralman, and they acquired a reclamation project in Garrison. With a healthy Bishop and possible Drouin addition, they definitely improved.
Montreal - Subtractions - Gorges, Briere, Vanek, Gionta. Acquisitions, PA Parenteau, Gilbert and Malhotra. And they haven't got the Subban mess sorted out yet, which if they don't agree to a long term deal before the arbiter awards the 1 year deal each side proposed, then they'll have the entire thing hanging over their heads. No way this team improved.
Pittsburgh - Losses - Niskanen, Orpik, Neal, Engellend, Jokinen. Acquisitions, Spaling, Hornqvist, Downie, Comeau, Ehrhoff. Are they better? I really don't see how. Spaling and Hornqvist don't make up for the loss of Neal, and neither does Ehrhoff over both Orpik and Niskanen. Even if they didn't get worse, they certainly didn't improve.
NYR - Losses - Boyle, Richards, Stralman, Pouliot, Dorsett. Acquisitions - Stempniak, Hunwick, Dan Boyle, Glass. So they lost arguably their best line in the postseason, their top D man and only really got reclamation projects and Dan Boyle, who as we all know is on the way out. Am I missing something here? Because I don't see how the Rangers improved either. In fact I think they got worse
Philadelphia - Losses - Downie, Gervais, Hartnell. Acquisitions - Stortini, Nick Schultz, Umberger. While they didn't improve, they didn't get worse either.
Columbus - Losses - Nick Schultz, Skille, Comeau, MacKenzie, Nikitin, Umberger. Acquisitions - Hartnell, D'Amigo. Can you honestly sit here and say that they improved as well?
Detroit - Losses - Legwand. Acquisitions - None. Re-signed Cleary and Quincey. So we didn't get in worse IMO, but I would argue that we got slightly better IF Pavel and Hank stay healthy and the kids contribute. The reason I'm optimistic is that at no point last year did we see this team with Pavel and Hank healthy play with the likes of Nyquist, Sheahan, Tatar, Jurco and co. And this is the key. Our top players stay healthy so that those young guys have less pressure and contribute more. A return to form from Howie will also help, as would 60 decent games out of Weiss. While I'm not oblivious to the fact that all that might not happen, I'm still optimistic that even if some of those things happen, we'll be a good team. So right now we definitely didn't get worse, but we could get better pending health.
Washington - Key losses - Grabovski, Halak. Additions - Niskanen, Orpik, Justin Peters. So they got better on the backend, and the loss of Grabovski will probably be replaced by a full season out of Kuznetsov. So they got slightly better, although their goaltending is slightly shaky
NJ - Losses - Fayne, Volchenkov. Acquisitions - Clemmensen, Havlat, Cammalleri. So they lost on the backend but improved their secondary scoring upfront, while also re-signing Jagr. So they got slightly better.
Ottawa - Losses - Spezza, Hemsky. Acquisitions - Legwand, Chiasson, Guptill. No way these guys got better. Legwand and Chiasson do not replace Spezza and Hemsky. These guys might be challenging for McDavid.
Toronto - Losses - McClement, Kulemin, Raymond, Bolland, D'amigo, Gunnarsson. Acquisitions - Winnik, Booth, Santorelli, Robidas, Polak, Frattin. They kind of replaced what they lost. They might have got slightly better on the backend, but other than that, I don't really see much improvement here from the Leafs. Probably stayed the same.
Now, this is just my opinion, but by my count, that makes 5 teams on that list that I think got worse (Boston, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Rangers), 3 that got better (Tampa, Washington, New Jersey) and 4 that stayed put (Detroit, Columbus, Philadelphia, Toronto).
With that in mind, I'd have to say that if healthy, the Wings have a decent shot here.
Posted by kliq on 03 August 2014 - 01:12 AM
To me elite is like top 2 or 3 at that position. Like goalies. Elite we had guys like Brodeur Roy and hasek now it's henrik and quick.
So to me kronwall is very good but not elite.
The word elite simply means "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons." so bottom line, “what defines elite” is up for interpretation. Neither of us are wrong, just a different interpretation of the word. I think we can all agree he is pretty damn good lol.
My entire point with the original statement wasn’t that Kronwall was elite anyways, it was that our team isn’t filled with a ton of washed up veterans like one poster implied.
Posted by number9 on 01 August 2014 - 10:31 PM
The bruins who lost to Mtl who then lost to nyr are a powerhouse? Do people even watch hockey? Stop cherry picking stats fact is most teams got better in the easy and Detroit stayed the same...
Most teams in our division got worse or stayed the same this year. Are you watching the offseason?