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Member Since 17 Jul 2010
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#2686340 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 26 September 2016 - 01:34 PM

Penalty killing ability is pretty tangible when you're in close games (which we will be often again this year). Ability to win faceoffs is an essential part of winning in todays game - Helm back at center will supply that. Speed does matter. Forechecking pressure matters. Ability to move from center to wing up and down the lineup is important for finding line combos whenever we need to change things up. And he does produce as a secondary scorer. He's overpayed, but this is not a player like Emmerton we're talking about here.


We're not paying him like a core player. I saw someone else say that and it looks like it's caught on. If we could get a core player for 3.8 we wouldn't be worrying about how to fit in Trouba's caphit as earlier on this page 

#2686322 2016 World Cup of Hockey thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 25 September 2016 - 06:20 PM

I think Tatar is a notch above Nyquist. They're similar types and I think their production will be fairly similar (depending on usage, of course).


The thing I notice about Tatar just seems to be a greater drive and he seems to create pressure and offensive more from my view. Maybe that can be represented by corsi or something. Nyquist's penchent for chicken-winging to get a hooking call and some diving has also kind of made me turn against him a bit, but that doesn't really make him a lesser player - it just bothers me. I know every player does it to a certain extent, but he does do it a lot.


Good for Tats in this tournament. Hopefully he and Mrazek will be boosted by some confidence going into the year


With Team Europe doing so well, I think it's good evidence against Frank and other's assertion that us getting a whole bunch more Michigan players will lead to better chemistry. Here you have players from 8 countries who seem to have found some pretty good chemistry.


Edit: I think it's interesting that the advisory board that helped chose the team included Lidstrom and Alfredsson and they must not have pushed for Nyquist. Then again, it's ultimately not their choice and Gus did have a down year.

#2686308 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 25 September 2016 - 03:28 PM


Lids probably helped Kronwell look better than he is.

Maybe in the sense that it allowed him to play on the 2nd pair, but they pretty much never played together, if that's what you meant.


I think Lids actually think made Kronwall look worse because people point of comparison was one of the best Dmen of all time. I think Kronwall was a fine #1 when he first made the switch, but injuries have quickly taken him off that level in recent years.

#2686305 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 25 September 2016 - 02:59 PM

This is where we disagree, I see Larkin as a very good player... maybe OUR best center. BUT not a top center in the league. Much the way Kronwall is our #1D but isn't a true #1D, and as time passes he may not even be a true #2D at this point.

Hence the word 'potential' that I used. Very few players in the NHL are 1st line centers in their first or second year in the league. I think he'll get to that level - maybe you think he'll stay at his current level - we haven't even seen him play much center so we'll see.


Edit: Regardless, you said he was like a lot of our other players and him as a 6'2" very fast well rounded center puts him as something we don't have elsewhere (maybe AA, but most project a lower ceiling for him), let alone the fact that he's the first player to make the team at 19 in such a long time. 

#2686276 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 24 September 2016 - 11:02 PM

Larkin is a better version of players we already have fast, smallish, skilled. Mantha has a skillset our is lacking... size and natural scoring ability.

I would trade Larkin for a clear #1 or soon to be #1 D. But I'd want a sweetener thrown in.

I don't hate Americans but if I have two players of more or less equal quality I'll take the Canadian every day of the week.

Strongly disagree with this part. Larkin is a center - what other pontential top line centers do we have in the system? Even potential top 6 centers probably just include him and AA.


Also, Larkin is 6'2" - is that really small? Even if you put ish on the end, I disagree. He was 190 last year, but he was 19 and he'll put more weight on. I'm assuming you're comparing him to Gus and Tats and they are 5'10 and 5'11"


To me, trading Larkin would just create the hole in the 1C position, which is almost as hard to fill as 1D.

#2686200 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 20 September 2016 - 08:34 PM

Simple put cleaning house.

Since this is the Dan Cleary PTO thread I'm not going to reply to that god damn rebuild discussion I will only say this to this f****** discussion:


straight out of the mouth from Ken Holland at 13:30


Back to the topic Dan Cleary completing a successful tryout or not doesn't  change a f****** damn thing at best it adds some much needed veteran presence to the junior Wings in GR.

Yet you did respond to that god damn rebuild discussion.


In this clip, Holland bumbles over his words so I can see why you heard that, but just before the part you quoted he says "I got conservative at the deadline, I'm trying to compete and we're trying to - is the word rebuild - I don't want to use the word reload because we're sitting here and you guys don't think we're very good..."


I would say, yes, Mr. Holland, that is the word, but it's easy to see why he's reticent to use the word. The jumble of terminology is the same problem we keep talking about here - as soon as you say rebuild, people think tank. But he is talking about keeping picks,, giving young players like Mantha and Nosek a shot, transitioning to young players and hoping some young players and picks turn us into the team that does more than just make the playoff and competes for a cup - that is the rebuild on the fly idea.

#2686075 Dan Cleary Gets Training Camp Tryout

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 18 September 2016 - 08:30 PM

Oh yeah, I remember he didn't go down to GR right away. That all makes sense.


It'd be better to have ex-NHL as the vets sharng advice, so more power to Cleary for doing that.  

#2685827 Mrazek's "Farewell to the Joe" Mask for 2016/2017

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 September 2016 - 05:30 PM

It's a nice design, but that's a pretty bad drawing of Yzerman!!


They used this photo, but somehow they made him look sick or something.

Attached File  97-cup-raise.jpg   67.65KB   1 downloads


#2685808 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 11 September 2016 - 07:25 PM

The sky is indeed falling. 


In the past few days, you've criticized deals for Z, Kronwall, Howard, Weiss, Franzen, Dekeyser, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Neilson, Weiss, Howard, Vanek, Green and more. I think the list probably includes every UFA deal we've made in the recent memory. I would be curious what the last UFA deal you actually liked. Sure, some of these have been mistakes, but It seems that you are unrealistic about UFA deals in the modern NHL.


To use just one example, you have unrealistic expectations for UFA deals if you honestly think Glendening was going to get .900 for 2 years. The way the collective bargaining agreement is, UFAs get PAID. You have to be a cast-off, a buyout, or injured to get a 1-2 year deal as a 27 year old. I know you say "then let them walk", but I think everyone would be walking if a GM had your line of negotiations. Players and their agents would have to completely ignore all comparables.

#2685768 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 September 2016 - 11:06 PM

Oh I know and I agree that Dreger is one of the best, I just think he was fed bogus info and Helm's agent must have made it seem he had good offers from others.  It makes zero sense to me.  He's a decent player, but is easily replaced....he's the type of player that should be making league average in my opinion.

League average was 2.58 including entry level deals and RFA. I'd bet Helm's near the average for UFA deals.

#2685750 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 September 2016 - 04:20 PM

  • "Darren Helm’s NTC kicks in immediately and goes through the first three seasons of the deal (through 2018-19) with no modification. Only Helm waiving this clause would allow him to be traded.
  • If the Red Wings miss the playoffs in the 2018-19 season OR if Helm isn’t among the top 9 forwards on the team in terms of total ice time, then he will have no NTC protection between June 15th of 2019 and the trade deadline of the 2019-20 season (Year four of the deal).
  • If the Red Wings miss the playoffs in the 2019-20 season OR if Helm isn’t among the top 9 forwards in terms of TOI, then his NTC is void from June 15, 2020 throughout the remainder of the contract (June 30, 2021).

While any NTC probably shouldn't have been included, it was probably insisted upon by Helm's people so that he won't be headed to Vegas.

This quoted section, however, should alleviate some of Dickie's worries about Helm ending up on the 4th line in a few years. The team seems to be worried about that as well and left the option open to trade in that case.

To pre-empt some responses, If he plays himself onto the 4th line, then he might not be tradeable (at least without retaining some salary). It think it would be more due to our prospects taking over, though.

Deal was a year too long and a bit too much, but I'm still glad Helm's back.

#2685735 Whose autograph is this? Can someone help me?

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 09 September 2016 - 11:16 PM

Attached File  KOslov.jpg   176.56KB   3 downloads

I say it's definitely Kozlov. This Kozlov puck on ebay has an autograph that looks just like it. (but you have to blow it up and look past the graphics)

#2685652 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 September 2016 - 03:10 AM

Not going to be a contender unless No-Trade Kenny stops sitting on his hands. The defense will blow. Besides, with most of the team signed long term for too much money, how are they going to keep Larkin and the rest of these future stars that are going to turn the team into legit contenders?

"Most of the team" is not signed to long-term deals.


We have some big contracts coming off in the next while and I don't foresee any problems. As prospects and young players we have most of them on cheaper RFA deals or entry level for a while. first "biggish" player to get UFA status is Nyquist in 3 years from now.


-Next year without Ott, Miller, Vanek, Kindl's penalty there's 3,905 - some goes Tatar,+Smith?(RFAs) then free agents, 

-Green's 6 mill is gone in 2 years - some goes to Larkin's+Mrazek's RFA deals, maybe small chance that we don't fit Sheahan in (but cap will go up so I"m sure we'll have space)

-Howard's 5.2 and Kronwall's 4.7 is gone in 3 years - re-sign Nyquist, roll in the extra cash.

-Ericsson's 4.25 is gone in 4 years

#2685644 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 September 2016 - 12:18 AM

I would be because it's the right thing to do instead of hanging on to a meaningless streak. Sharks will need a rebuild soon too but they still have their defense fixed with Burns and Vlasic.

When you have a team that doesn't have a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and UFAs aren't exactly knocking on the door there are 2 options: trade or draft them. Toronto learned this the hard way...Vancouver is going to learn it the hard way too soon. So I'd rather see young guys, who need 1 or 2 years at the worst in the minors develop, than seeing guys like Mantha sent down so some patchwork players can play...and I'd rather see mistakes from learning by doing instead of veterans who could be used for more draft picks taking spots away.

To me it seems like the Wings want to learn it the hard way and whoever follows Holland will be stuck with a leafs like sitatution before they decided to rebuild. If people believe being a team without a clear vision that drafts around 15 plus and either misses the playoffs or is out in the first round is exciting or something desirable more power to them..to me the red wings way should be building towards cup or bust.

Still not sure why you're using Vancouver and Toronto as examples. Also not sure what learning "it" the hard way means. If you mean you have to tank to success - your examples work against you. Both those teams were bad for extended periods Van (96-00), Leafs (06-) and weren't been able to put together championship teams from time in the tank. 


Vancouver ruined an elite team with the goalie debacle of losing 2 elite goalies in Schneider and Luongo - 2 assets they should have got more for. Then they alienated Kesler with this debacle and by hiring Tortorella. If you want to learn from this example, keep your future goalie (Mrazek is Schneider in this parallel) and treat your Stars well and show them you're a competent GM.


I think our strategy is to keep our picks and try to draft well. I think we've gotten our future #1 center that way, and a goalie I think I think will be great and some other very good players. Looking at our recent 1st round picks (Larkin, Mantha, Svech) I don't think it out of the question that we pull a top defender in the next few years. Next year there seems to be a number of good Dmen in the draft that I've been checking out that we might get a chance at: Timothy Liljegren, Callan Foote (Adam foote's son), Nicolas Hagues (6'6")


In a few years, I really think we could put together a contender with our prospects and young players except for the big hole of #1D, so I don't get the sour outlook and desire to tear it down. There was some head-scratching moves this offseason, though, so makes a little more sense why people are frustrated.

#2685632 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 September 2016 - 08:01 PM

I agree with the Vanek part to a certain extent, but we could trade him at the deadline and get something for him and then he would be a good move long term. Anyway, when you add a potential 50 pt. guy for a 1 year deal without giving anything up, I think you have to do it - you either gain a tradeable asset or he doesn't perform and nothing lost. Or you extend him a year or 2 (not long term) so that Larkin or AA have high level linemates to develop with and let Mantha, and other propects work their way up from the 3rd line competition.


The idea that Helm, Glendening are blocking youth is false, though, when you have Miller, Ott taking roster spots and you don't even say which prospects you want on the team.


Frank, I think you hit an important point, when you mentioned semantics. I think you guys are talking about a Tanking rebuild. And, no, we're not doing that. It's the often mentioned rebuild on the fly. For those uninterested when we're just making the playoffs, I doubt you would be more interested in 5 years at the bottom of the league.