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Member Since 17 Jul 2010
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#2685652 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 September 2016 - 03:10 AM

Not going to be a contender unless No-Trade Kenny stops sitting on his hands. The defense will blow. Besides, with most of the team signed long term for too much money, how are they going to keep Larkin and the rest of these future stars that are going to turn the team into legit contenders?

"Most of the team" is not signed to long-term deals.


We have some big contracts coming off in the next while and I don't foresee any problems. As prospects and young players we have most of them on cheaper RFA deals or entry level for a while. first "biggish" player to get UFA status is Nyquist in 3 years from now.


-Next year without Ott, Miller, Vanek, Kindl's penalty there's 3,905 - some goes Tatar,+Smith?(RFAs) then free agents, 

-Green's 6 mill is gone in 2 years - some goes to Larkin's+Mrazek's RFA deals, maybe small chance that we don't fit Sheahan in (but cap will go up so I"m sure we'll have space)

-Howard's 5.2 and Kronwall's 4.7 is gone in 3 years - re-sign Nyquist, roll in the extra cash.

-Ericsson's 4.25 is gone in 4 years

#2685644 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 September 2016 - 12:18 AM

I would be because it's the right thing to do instead of hanging on to a meaningless streak. Sharks will need a rebuild soon too but they still have their defense fixed with Burns and Vlasic.

When you have a team that doesn't have a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and UFAs aren't exactly knocking on the door there are 2 options: trade or draft them. Toronto learned this the hard way...Vancouver is going to learn it the hard way too soon. So I'd rather see young guys, who need 1 or 2 years at the worst in the minors develop, than seeing guys like Mantha sent down so some patchwork players can play...and I'd rather see mistakes from learning by doing instead of veterans who could be used for more draft picks taking spots away.

To me it seems like the Wings want to learn it the hard way and whoever follows Holland will be stuck with a leafs like sitatution before they decided to rebuild. If people believe being a team without a clear vision that drafts around 15 plus and either misses the playoffs or is out in the first round is exciting or something desirable more power to them..to me the red wings way should be building towards cup or bust.

Still not sure why you're using Vancouver and Toronto as examples. Also not sure what learning "it" the hard way means. If you mean you have to tank to success - your examples work against you. Both those teams were bad for extended periods Van (96-00), Leafs (06-) and weren't been able to put together championship teams from time in the tank. 


Vancouver ruined an elite team with the goalie debacle of losing 2 elite goalies in Schneider and Luongo - 2 assets they should have got more for. Then they alienated Kesler with this debacle and by hiring Tortorella. If you want to learn from this example, keep your future goalie (Mrazek is Schneider in this parallel) and treat your Stars well and show them you're a competent GM.


I think our strategy is to keep our picks and try to draft well. I think we've gotten our future #1 center that way, and a goalie I think I think will be great and some other very good players. Looking at our recent 1st round picks (Larkin, Mantha, Svech) I don't think it out of the question that we pull a top defender in the next few years. Next year there seems to be a number of good Dmen in the draft that I've been checking out that we might get a chance at: Timothy Liljegren, Callan Foote (Adam foote's son), Nicolas Hagues (6'6")


In a few years, I really think we could put together a contender with our prospects and young players except for the big hole of #1D, so I don't get the sour outlook and desire to tear it down. There was some head-scratching moves this offseason, though, so makes a little more sense why people are frustrated.

#2685632 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 September 2016 - 08:01 PM

I agree with the Vanek part to a certain extent, but we could trade him at the deadline and get something for him and then he would be a good move long term. Anyway, when you add a potential 50 pt. guy for a 1 year deal without giving anything up, I think you have to do it - you either gain a tradeable asset or he doesn't perform and nothing lost. Or you extend him a year or 2 (not long term) so that Larkin or AA have high level linemates to develop with and let Mantha, and other propects work their way up from the 3rd line competition.


The idea that Helm, Glendening are blocking youth is false, though, when you have Miller, Ott taking roster spots and you don't even say which prospects you want on the team.


Frank, I think you hit an important point, when you mentioned semantics. I think you guys are talking about a Tanking rebuild. And, no, we're not doing that. It's the often mentioned rebuild on the fly. For those uninterested when we're just making the playoffs, I doubt you would be more interested in 5 years at the bottom of the league. 

#2685625 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 September 2016 - 06:31 PM

except they're not rebuilding, they're signing middling players to long term deals and blocking young players.

20: Larkin

22: Athanasiou

23: Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul?

24: Mrazek, Sheahan, Pulkinnen, Marchenko

25: Tatar

26: Dekeyser

27: Glendening, Nyquist, Smith

29: Abby, Helm

30: Green


NHL average age is 27.5. Look how many of our key players are on the young side. And 15-16 of the 23 man roster 30 and under. Hasn't been that way in a while. It's a rebuild. I think Mantha will be on the team by the end of the year as well. Not sure who else we'd want on the team from the prospects.

#2685594 2016 World Cup of Hockey thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 September 2016 - 06:41 PM

Here's another question.  What National Anthem will play first if Team North America wins the tournament?  What if Team Europe wins the tournament?  Will they play "The Final Countdown" by Europe in lieu of an anthem?  

There is an official anthem for Europe, it's the Ode to Joy.


I hope they go with this version:

#2685398 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 02 September 2016 - 04:13 PM

We simply don't know what we'll have with Larkin yet, but last year was very encouraging - especially for a first year pro. I don't think that one year tells us much of the player he'll become, though. We'll have to see where his trajectory goes from there.


I really haven't seen anyone call Larkin elite yet. I think he has the skillset to get there. As well as being close to Eichel's 1st year, he also measures up pretty well against some elite players for a first year in the league. Before people jump on me, I'm not saying that he'll be on the level of these players. I'm saying he did fine for his first year. We can only hope that he gets near the level of some of these guys.


1st year Pro/in the NHL:

Larkin:     80gp, 23g, 45pts

Toews:     64gp, 24g, 54pts (of course less games and more points, but similar goals)

Seguin:    74gp, 11g, 22pts

Stamkos: 79gp, 23g, 46pts

Benn:       82gp, 22g, 41pts

Bergeron: 71gp,16g, 39pts

D Sedin:   75gp, 20g, 35pts


The unfair part about looking at this, of course, is usage since Larkin played 1st line while some of these players started on lower lines - just thought they were interesting to look at for comparison.


This year, Datsyuk's TOI will be up for grabs and he'll be more adjusted to the league and the tough schedule - I think for sure he'll take a big step forward.

#2685287 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 31 August 2016 - 09:59 PM

Fowler is younger anyway, D take longer to mature, so yes, Fowler has room to improve a lit more than Tatar and Nyquist

While it's true that D take longer to mature and 24 is fairly young, Fowler's actually been in the league for six years. I think it's pretty rare someone that's been in the league that long making that significant a step up in their game. Dubnyk maybe, but changing goaltending techniques is a different matter. I guess you could count Kronwall as an example since he expanded his game when he became a 1st pair after 6 years of being a second pair guy, though I think that was more of a change than getting better.


I think it's a little ironic that you're the one making this argument since you often write how others shouldn't count the potential of certain players. 

#2685270 Datsyuk Announcement to Officially Leave NHL

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 31 August 2016 - 06:36 PM

I do agree, he should've been captain.

imo he should have been wearing the C and didn't

I think a big consideration for Datsyuk not being captain is language. His English just wasn't good enough to talk to referees, let alone doing all the extra press coverage that is expected out of a captain. Anyway, Pav seemed to like being left alone and fly under the radar while he was here.

#2685269 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 31 August 2016 - 06:19 PM

Fowler is 24, still plenty of room to improve. And why the he'll didn't Holland have that philosophy for free agents?

How about an Eriksson and picks for Chelios, or Primeau and Coffey for Shanahan, or any of the good trades Holland used to pull off? Nyquist and Tatar are what they are, small one dimensional wingers. Pulk is barely an NHL player. AA is likely a second line forward, Dekeyser MIGHT be a #2 with the right #1, everyone else in the D pipeline are 4/5 guys. I'm not saying dump them for nothing or a vet, but if you can move them for a good young player it's stupid not to, even if it's a two for one deal. The team that gets the better player wins because one elite player is more valuable than two secondary players.

So...Fowler at 24 will improve and is worth the gamble, while Tatar at 25 and Nyquist at 26 will always be stuck at the same level?


...or familiarity breed contempt and lets check out the grass on the other side.

#2685039 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 24 August 2016 - 09:07 PM

Part of me is hoping we have a Dman injured so we can keep XO, Sproul, and Jensen at least at the beginning of the year.


Sucks for Jurco. He was already starting behind the eight ball and now the path looks harder for him.

#2684944 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 19 August 2016 - 02:32 PM


Last eleven years. No one has made fewer trades, and it's not even close.

A.K.A. since the salary cap. It's clear that has been our policy since the cap - go with homegrown draft picks and prospects for the majority of our players. In this time, I think every other team, at some point, has either traded a lot of their future in a big push to win (Pens, FLA, KIngs, etc) or traded away aging stars in order to tank and get picks (Flames, Buffalo, etc.) We haven't been in either of these extreme situations so it makes sense that we have tallied much less trades - that was what I was saying.


Now, you can argue that we should go through the cycle of boom and bust, but that's another conversation, i think. 

#2684695 Patrick Roy steps down as Head Coach and VP of Hockey Operations

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 11 August 2016 - 08:09 PM

So, is this what happens when you hire unqualified people based on their name and relationship to you and not because they're good at their job?

I don't know if that was the case with Roy. His 8 years coaching in the QMHL he did pretty well. He won a Memorial cup there and that's the top achievement at that level. He was also the GM, owner, and vice president there as well. 


Maybe you meant Sakic? I wouldn't say that was the case either. He work his way up a la Yzerman.

#2684567 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 August 2016 - 06:25 PM

Because Murray didn't have much to do in the series. San Jose had what? like 19 shots on him in game 6? Pittsburgh's offense piledrived the hell out of San Jose throughout the series. 40+ shots in like 3 games. Absolutely wrecked them. 

Right so by these numbers then Draper was the better producer. Out of the 3 years you listed Glendening produced more only once but he also averaged the ice time of a 3rd/2nd liner while like your chart says Draper had like 12:43 TOI and only scored 3 less points. 


So Draper is the better producer lol. 

Alright, truce. I'm not going to try to convince you. I wasn't even arguing that Glendening is the better producer than Draper - Just that he's in line with the production of our Grind Lind, other than their few outlier years.


Just take another look at Draper, Maltby, Kocur's McCarty's stats and you'll see each only has a few years when they each contributed significant offence. I didn't even need to bring Glendening into it. Usually those players were 20 pts or lower.

#2684216 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 29 July 2016 - 05:14 PM

Don't forget to vote for your favourite design for the Jack Adams Memorial Mural.



I say #1 all the way! 

#2684177 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 28 July 2016 - 11:04 PM

Idk, something about Swedish Mafia Don influencing the future captain or something. Whatever caption pleases you. 



Because of the Swedish connection, I can only see that picture as the famous scene from The Seventh Seal.


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