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PavelValerievichDatsyuk

Member Since 17 Jul 2010
Online Last Active Today, 07:45 PM
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#2683539 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 20 July 2016 - 06:37 PM

 

I have a feeling you are in the minority here. From my understanding, Kelly never won a Hart trophy which when you think about it, is an amazing individual feat. Something even Yzerman and Lidstrom never did.

To be fair, D men (which he was with the WIngs, but not the Leafs) are much less likely to receive the Hart - especially after the Norris was introduced in 54. He was a runner up one year, though, and won the Norris and 3 Byngs. But you're right - Fed's Hart, 2 Selkes, and Leaster B. probably wins out, though the later 2 weren't around during Kelly's time (so it's comparing a Hart to a norris).

 

...and Feds is my all-time favourite so I'm not going say he wasn't the better one.




#2683284 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 15 July 2016 - 10:46 PM

They can't become good nhl players if Holland blocks them from playing because of Helm and Glendening

But we have players lower on the food chain than Helm and Glendening. Why is the attack on them? Just the money issue?

 

No Miller/Ott gets you Mantha and you can bump Helm down a line. Or you get Frk or Bertuzzi.

 

Then if we don't sign Vanek (who I don't think should be here long term) then you can have Mantha.

 

T-Lark-Abby

Z-Niel-Ny

Helm-AA-Mantha

Shea-Glen-Bert/Frk

Jurco/pulk

 

I think Mantha needs more development time, so I'm fine with Vanek for a year and let Mantha steal his spot sometime during the year. Giving Pulkkinen or Jurco a shot could have been a better for the team, though.

 

Don't like the Miller/Ott signings.




#2683203 Glendening signs 4-year, $1.8m AAV extension

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 14 July 2016 - 03:27 PM

I like Glendening. It's a bit too much money, but I'm not sure why people are complaining about the 4 year term. 27 year old players that could be UFAs don't usually sign contracts that short. He'll be 32 at the end of it - we'll get his best years. 

 

Also, something that might be considered for context in the overpayment is that Glendening's previous cahit (628.333) and salary was ridiculously low - if you think of it as back payment the 2 contracts probably equal out to a fair amount for cool hand Luke.




#2683125 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 14 July 2016 - 02:02 AM

I don't think there's much of a chance we'll see Frk unless its on a later call up. When's the last time a player made the team without earlier call ups? (Larkin's situation doesn't count) I think if he had a future he would have been chosen instead of AA or Mantha for earlier call ups.

 

I still think Ott won't play much and will be sent down to make room when come upon roster problems.

 

The D situation will be very interesting to see play out. I do think the # of NHL games shows what the organization thinks. XO's 25 games says to me that the 7th spot is his. Jensen's never even had 1 NHL game so I think he's definitely sent down. I've really wanted the 6'4" righty, Sproul, to get more of a chance than his 1 game. I hope we keep him up as a group of 8.   




#2682990 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 July 2016 - 03:42 PM

Maybe it's a different experience with the US's airport security. I travel Montreal-Toronto regularly (yes not 2.5 hrs, but domestic so check in is the same) and I leave my place 1 hr before flight (weekdays, the airport is easy to get through). 15 min cab rides. Only a carry-on, so no baggage check. Under 2 hrs. on both sides combined. But fine, I withdraw my insanity comment. Maybe Datsyuk will live out in the boonies.

 

There's so many other problem's with this idea, anyway. For instance, Datsyuk as a travelling KHL player often won't even be flying out of St. Petersburg. But more than anything: St. Peterborough is wwwwwwaaaaayyyyyy closer than Detroit. Anyway, I'm going to excuse myself from all these why Datsyuk left/was he justified conversions - they're oddly infuriating and I also feel a little creepy with all the speculations about the specifics about how Datsyuk lives his private life.




#2682980 Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 July 2016 - 01:31 PM

I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

 

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it. 

 

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

This is not correct. The rumours started before the Albom article. It was even reported on Hockey Night in Canada about a week or 2 before. Datsyuk was trying to quell the speculation and said he wanted fans to hear it from him. You can call the article a distraction, but the questions were already being asked so it would have been a distracting storyline anyway.

 

A 3 hour flight is 7 hour commitment? Insanity. Anyway, I checked google when the 30 hour discussion was going onand it's a 2 and half hour flight. Domestic flight - show up an hour before, daughter greets you at airport. It's really crazy that people have had to go to such lengths to convince people that living in Russia is easier to see his daughter than across the world in Detroit. This a daughter from a previous marriage so he's not going home to live with her. Maybe he'll see her every few weeks compared to a few times in the few months of the offseason.




#2682917 For the Kenny apologists, what Holland move would change your stance o

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 11 July 2016 - 04:55 PM

If we didn't trade Datsyuk's caphit, we probably wouldn't have Nielson or Vanek. I would be interested to see what the criticism level would be like around here in that case. No one will know for a while what we missed out on with Chychrun, so I think speculating can only go so far.

 

I think it's interesting to compare this trade to the 2013 draft trade where we similarly moved down in the 1st round. 

 

2013: down 2 spots (18:Mirco Mueller - 20: Anthony Mantha) + we received a 2nd rounder (58th: Bertuzzi)

2016: down 4 spots (16:Jakob Chychrun-20: Dennis Cholowski) + we received a 2nd rounder (53rd: Hronek) + we got rid of Pav's caphit + took we took on Vitale's caphit)

 

If you take out the part about the 2 contracts switching hands, the 2 trades look very similar if you look at pick numbers. We gave up a higher 1st round pick in 2016, but we received a higher 2nd so that compensates a bit. Haven't seen any complaints about the 2013 trade and we didn't even get rid of a big contract as part of it. 

 

But, obviously, the difference is that we ended up with the higher ranked player (Mantha ranked 15, mueller ranked 16th in the consensus top 30) (Chychrun ranked 12, Cholowski was honourable mention - just outside the top 30).

 

As a sidenote, I don't think we can guess that we would have picked Chychrun. Both Chychrun and Fabbro were ranked higher than 16th and Stanley was taken 18th, so there were D choices and our choices often deviate from the rankings (cholo, bertuzzi are examples).

Holland trading the 16th pick and the Defense man that they desperately need were traded for one single year of relief of Dats contract should wake the rest of them up.  The Jets got a great defense man with our 16th pick.  Holland is the worst part of the Detroit organization, has delayed their rebuild and continues to do so.

We made the trade to Arizona not the Jets - Or maybe you're referring to them as the relocated Jets? Also, the trade was 16th+Dats for 20th+53rd+Vitale. To simplify it to Dats for Chychrun is very misleading.




#2682650 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 July 2016 - 04:13 PM

The difference between Goose and Helm is that Helm turns 30 sometime this season and Goose was turning 26 entering into his prime. 

 

I honestly would probably be calling this an excellent deal if Helm was 25 rather than 29. I'm looking at this situation in it's entire scope. I'll reiterate some points.

 

1. We have a log jam of NHL forwards.

2. We have a log jam of AHL forwards or extras trying to become NHL forwards (Mantha, AA, Jurco, Pulk, Bert, Callahan)

3. 5 years. This contract runs till he's 34. If 29 year old Helm's best is 33 points what will 32 y/o Helm be? 33? 34? 

4. His best production was when he was 24 years old. His next best production was in 2015 where he thrived as Datsyuk's wing (Tatar - Datsyuk - Helm line). Can he repeat the production without Pav? I'm not saying he won't but it's something to think about.

5. Injury history. It's pretty bad. Doesn't mean it will happen again, doesn't mean it won't either. These things should be considered when making 5 year deals imo.

6. Was it worth paying $3.85 million when perhaps AA could take the role? AA doesn't have the same grit but he can probably provide the same duties on the third line and on the PK. We also have Nielsen now so the PK will primarily be his to handle.

7. Perhaps it is Helms market value. Maybe you guys are right. But does that mean management should pay it? I mean, it's not like it's Datsyuk hitting UFA. If that was the case, we do whatever we could to retain him. But was their hand really forced here? I don't think so.

 

I just don't see this contract working out in our favor. I hope I'm wrong though. And it all depends on if he has a NTC or NMC. 

 

If there's a NMC then lol. 

3. 5 years is short for anyone re-signing a UFA at 29. I'll bet we had to go with this higher cap-hit to cut down the years. Most signings of homegrown UFA forwards seem to be 7 or 8 years now. I don't see any problems with a 34 year old Helm. We just signed Nielsen at 32 for 6 years.

4. Like in my previous post, His best production year was 2 years ago when he was 27. As you say, his 32 pts. in 2010-11 was without Pav. If you take this year's production numbers as the beginning of a downfall most of our team will be in the basement in  a few years. I expect most players' number to return to form as Blash/new PP guy figures out the offence/lines better in his 2nd year.

5. He does have an injury history. The back injury was concerning but that was 3-4 years ago and hasn't come back. His cut wrist tendon isn't a recurring problem. The concussion this year in training camp can maybe account for some of his down year since he didn't have the regular season prep. Not too worried about injuries on the whole since they've all been unrelated, rather that one chronic problem.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece. To me, Helm is someone we know what to expect from and that's speed, consistent effort, solid defensive play, secondary scoring. I think we'll see that for the 5 year term.




#2682643 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 July 2016 - 03:27 PM

I don't think it was THAT important to resign Helm to be honest. And I especially didn't think Miller was either. I think Holland tried to play it safe and wanted to keep them in case he didn't land other free agents.

$3.85 x5 isn't a slight overpayment for a bottom 6, 26 point scorer. It's a pretty big overpayment. Even if he kills penalties.

Just to put it into perspective, Gustav Nyquist scored more goals (27 goals) than Helm scored points (26 points total) when he got his contract and only makes 900k more.

This was a bad contract. And it's not even bad in hindsight like Ericsson's was (who was probably expected to be a pretty good D man but ended up disappointing most fans). This one is bad from day 1 and I'm hoping to god, moses and buddah that there's no NMC or NTC so we aren't stuck with it if it doesn't work out.

Goose scored 17 last year. Taking from a different year seems like cherry picking stats to me. 

 

This wasn't an essential signing. I'm glad we reupped him, but I can see why some disagree. Without the Miller, Ott signing, I think people would look at it differently. I don't think the caphit is a big deal, though. We have Lark, AA, and others on their entry contracts and other young players on RFA deals for the next while - we would have to worry the cap for a bit. Also, who was there to throw money at?

Even in his best year he put up 33 points (once). Almost everyone you mentioned were either former 40-55 point scorers or are making 900k less than his current contract is so either way it's still an overpayment. Matt Cullen signed his 3 year extension after scoring 48 and 39 points and signed with the penguins after scoring 25 points in 62 games (not 25 in 77). And why would I compare one bad contract with another? (Matt Stajan). Actually Stajan's contract isn't that bad since he's 3.1 million not 3.85. Kruger is only 26 and still has an upside. He's not 29. 

 

No matter how you cut it, it's an overpayment. By about a million dollars. Which is my point anyway. He's worth less than $3 million. Max $3 million in my opinion. Probably would have gotten $4.5 million in free agency because some managers like to throw money. 

This is not true. 

 

2010-2011: 32 pts

2012-2013: 26 pts in 68 games (got injured, traslates to 31 pts. over the full year)

2013-2014: 20 pts in 42 games (lockout season. His best season for pts per game. 39 pts over 82)

2014-2015: 33 pts

 

Last year was a down year for his production - like it was for almost everyone on the team. from his record you can expect over 30 pts from him.

 

I think saying he's worth less than 3 mill is unrealistic. He would have gotten more than 4 in free agency. That is worth - market dictates value.




#2682584 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 July 2016 - 08:18 PM

Ya, look at the log jam caused by re-signing Helm. This guy will be the downfall of this all because he MUST play in the top 9. He is no better than a 4th liner, but no, he is now going to bump more deserving 3rd liners out of the organization...

Krs-one covered most of my response, but also Helm never said this bolded no matter how many times you refer to it. He said he's fine with playing on the lower lines as long as there's "that respect factor." Whatever the hell that means, but he does seem to be fine on the 3rd and 4th.




#2682557 Darren Helm re-signed: 5 years, $3.85m AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 July 2016 - 04:40 PM

He does seem like the odd man out..

 

Tatar - Nielsen - Vanek

Zetty the Grizzly Teddy - Larkin - Abulkadir

Nyquist - Sheahan - AA/Helm/Mantha

Miller - Glendogmillionaire - Ott/Jurco

Have thought about this some more and there's no real problem

 

Z-Lark-Vanek

Ny-Nielsen-Abby

Tat-AA-Helm

Mill/Ott-Glen-Shea

Jurco,Pulk

 

Ott is just in for Miller as he comes back or injuries or extra grit.

 

Mantha starts in GR, which I think most of us expected anyway. Injuries will come.

 

Not sure how much of a shot Jurco and Pukkinen are going to get this year, though - I Do wish we hadn't signed Miller and Ott.




#2682459 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 July 2016 - 05:22 PM

 

Torey Krug says hello. I wouldn't call him a long shot, nor would I personally call him a guarantee. I think, having watched him play for Victoria and at the WJHC for Canada, I think he's going to make the NHL. Whether or not he's a top 4, let alone a top 6 is up to him.

Krug's 5'9"so Hicketts is even smaller. I know there are short guys. St. Louis was 5'8", Gerbe, etc. But there's few of them for a reason. though, and even less among Dmen. It's the same reason why a player of Hicketts calibre went undrafted. I've been impressed with him, but I still consider him a long shot.




#2682456 Thomas Vanek signs 1 year, $2.6m deal with Detroit

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 July 2016 - 05:05 PM

People think Ken Holland will trade a vet at the deadline?
 

It is unlikely that we do so since Vanek is likely a more capable player, but we have done it around the deadline recently:

 

2016: Kindl (26 - so not really a vet)

2013: Huskins

2012: Commodore

2010: Leino (27 - not really a vet)

 

These were all guys that didn't perform and we only got 6th or 7th rounders. I think it could be an option with Vanek if Mantha comes up and proves himself. From this list, we only send out guys that are superfluous. 




#2682448 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 July 2016 - 04:47 PM

Hicketts has done well, but at 5'8" he's very much a long shot to make it to the NHL.




#2682313 Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 05 July 2016 - 06:40 PM

Which they never will because Kenny would've to admit how bad that contract is. Which is why he won't buy it out either. ;)

It's not about admitting it's a bad contract. Everyone but Ericsson's mom knows that's too much for him. (Although it's looking less bad when you have Petry getting 5.5 and other such deals) 

 

It's the fact that if we bought him now, it would be 1.375 against the cap for the next 8 years. On top of the 1.067 from Weiss that's around for 5 more years. Can't just keep buying out people and handicapping the team. Plus who are we making room for? Many would argue that Sproul, Jensen, Ouellet would be better options, but enough to justify the cap?

 

Ericsson has a modified NTC so he could be tradeable or keep him on the lower pairs where can handle the competition better.