Three months ago, I might've said we should wait until next year to make a big move. But this team has exceeded my expectations and is performing about as well as it possibly can without that elite defenseman. And with Eastern Conference supremacy being up for grabs (if the Isles win the East becaue they landed Boychuk and Leddy, I will s*** bricks), and, again, Datsyuk and Zetterberg (and Kronwall) having only so many postseason runs left in them, and with things being so crazy that Don Maloney has come out and said that every Coyote not named Shane Doan is available...I don't really get how someone could say, "Pulkkinen, Smith, and a 1st for Yandle? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sure, we might win a Cup, but at what cost?!" Like, again - Quincey and a couple months of Legwand cost us two first-round picks and one of our better prospects. And if we want to talk about prospering in the present but suffering in the future, Suter and Parise would've been the ultimate Cup-or-bust signings. You think two or three good pieces for Yandle is insane? Parise and Suter would've made it very, very, very hard to hold on to all of Nyquist, Tatar, DeKeyser, Sheahan, et al. past their first or second contracts. We would've been handcuffed for years.
But, at the end of the day, the Cup is everything. You're either rebuilding/retooling, or you're scraping and clawing for the Cup. If there's a chance Holland can get a top-pairing defenseman at a price he can live with, he needs to consider it. And I've no doubt that he is, in fact, making calls and weighing his options.
It was a 3rd round pick in the Legwand deal.
I agree with a lot you said. We do have pieces that could be moved for that high end D man and we will definitely be looking at the options, but it does have to be the right deal and I'm not sure that it's available. I feel if it's not a home-run we should wait until free agency. Yandle's a great player, but how would he fit with our D corp. He plays the left side - are you going to make Kronwall or Dekeyser switch? Will Dekeyser be forced onto the 3rd pair? I think those two are our building blocks on the back end and I think we should be trying to build around them not forcing them to to change. Also, where would get the RH shots from with Yandle, DK, Kronwall, Quincey, Smith, Kindl signed? As for Myers, There seems to be a lot negative opinions on him, so that doesn't feel like a homerun either. It would be with the hope that he returns to his earlier self with a better team. It could turn out great, okay, or a be burden. I think the players we really want are Greene, Franson, Erhoff. All lined up to be UFAs. We are contenders, but realistically, next year we seems more likely to damage - I hope we don't get the itchy trigger finger and make an okay deal. Especially since there is chance our own prospects could be the answer to our needs in a couple of years.
Edit: sounds like wings4thecup06 beat me to my own thoughts while I was writing.
Mrazek is fine. He started 6 or 7 games in a row - That's hard for any goalie except the firmly established work horses. A young goalie wouldn't usually be put in that situation. He was forced there because of injuries and has done fine overall. He'll be here as a backup next year and ease into being a full-time NHL goalie.
I'm not really sure why we'd trade and NHL ready righty to get an NHL righty. My guess is, they want to see if Marchenko is good enough to hold his own on the third pair if they move one or two of the lefties who are higher up in the depth chart. I'm thinking of Quincey, Smith, or Ouellet are the more likely trade scenarios.
We don't know that Marchenko is an NHL ready righty - he's only played 1 game. We might find out on this call up though. I do agree that 1 or 2 of the lefties on the roster (minus DK and Kronwall) would likely be part of any trade. I think Kindl, Quincey would be the ones we're most willing to give up then. Don't imagine we'd want to give up Ouellet, but who knows.
I think these moves are just due to Babcock wanting a RH on the blue line. We have all these prospects we might as well give them a shot before we make a move. We've made some moves where, I think, a prospect ultimately filled the position that the other player was brought in for (Weiss-Sheahan, Tootoo-Glendening, Sammy-Tats/Nyquist) I hope they're seeing if the prospects are a realistic option right now or if we'll need someone else
Franzen goes through droughts every single year. He was on a goal scoring drought this year. I don't see what the difference is? He had 16 goals and 25 assists last year in 54 games. He had 7 goals and 15 assists in 33 games this year. It's that that much of a drop off. Especially given how hot and cold he runs. Again, I'm not saying we've got to keep the guy or anything. He's clearly not necessary for the team's success. But I think this Franzen has regressed narrative is overblown.
Also, can we all agree that using plus/minus to make a point you want to, and then lambasting it as a "worthless stat" the rest of the time, is shaky at best. I've seen you personally talk trash about the plus/minus stat. So I'm not sure why you're using to make a case now.
Okay I can see that - Maybe the "Franzen has regressed" narrative is overblown. I did seen in places people say that "injuries have caught up on him and he's done." I definitely don't buy that. But looking at goals, he is set for the lowest goals per game since his second year. You're right, though, It wouldn't be a huge drop off and he has been playing with lesser line-mates often this season so you could credit it to that. I do think, if the season was over today, it would be looked at as a down year for him. I hope he goes back to the way he looked in the first 10 games.
My thinking for using +/- is because -12 is a large enough number that I thought it to be significant. If one player contradicts the trending stats of the whole team dramatically (and doesn't play on the PK) then I do think it shows something. The only other regulars with a minus are Nyquist (-2) and Miller (-1). Thinking about it now, though, you could partly explain Franzen's -12 by the fact that he's been with lesser line-mates. Also, comparing his stats to the team's now does skew the picture since the team has been winning since he's been out - I'd have to look at the stats when he went down to be fair.
who considered him a top ufa ? Actually Hossa was 29 when he signed with us https://www.toledobl...for-1-year.html Like I've said for the right return nobody should be off limits and that price will obviously ridiculously high. But do you really expect to get back a player that can help us on the backend for years by offering so so prospects ? That's not gonna happen. Pietrangelo was RFA and could have been offer sheeted just as an example. Yeah Suter signed elsewhere couldn't do anything about that but the wings could flex their financial muscle when it comes to offer sheeting other top players. So what's your solution then keep building and building till Pasha and Z can't carry the team anymore ? Even if that's your plan there isn't enough on this team for every prospect so trades need to happen might as well cash in when the value us highish
There is no financial muscle - that's the whole point of the salary cap. And I think you know how likely it is to land someone on an offer sheet.
Solution is to build from the draft, which we've done. Try to pick up college free agents (Dekeyeser, Glendening) AND take a swing in Free agency. Alfie and Weiss were top free agents. we haven't done as badly in free agency as some suggest. If we finish where we're at in the standings now, we'll be pretty attractive as a destination.
Edit: Also, this year looks like a better crop of free agents: Green, Erhoff, and Franson, Boychuck, Marc Staal, Petry, Jackman, Martin are set to be UFAs this year. Some will get signed before then, but who knows...
Hes playing on the 3rd line like you mentioned with matt Cullen and Gabriel bourque , don't think he's gonna get big numbers with those linemates .... He's still 23
I find it funny how holland is now saying he paid a heavy price considering when the trade happened he was basically trying to convince everyone jarnkrok was worthless
That didn't happen.
I don't really read it as Holland admitting a mistake. He's just saying that you can't do that every year. He defends the move saying the line carried us for a while and gave us hope, which it did. THat was the purpose - make the playoffs.
I don't think it was a mistake anyway. We made the playoffs - it was a necessary evil. There was little chance Jarnkrok would find a space on a team that has so many centers that Weiss is on 4th line wing. Jarnkrok could have been used in a trade for a long term need (RH D), but who knows if having him would make a deal happen that won't without him
Hold on, you say "gym freak" and "math freak" a lot, and now I can't figure out what you mean when you add the work freak. Do you like or not-like the fact that they fired Randy and brought in a genius numbers whiz? Cause I'm pretty positive u like gym freaks. I think.
Clearly you're just too much of a consistency freak.
Shutout loss would have been hilarious... but Kadri scored. #FREEKADRI
Only their second goal in five games. In the last five games, they've been outscored 15 - 2.
The frustration on the part of the Leafs players was palpable as well.
Just the highlights:
Kessel looking to the rafters and "re-doing" his shot attempt after missing a tasty open net.
Phaneuf roaming the ice just looking to fight someone -- "Hello, Staal brothers!"
Franson smashing his stick on net after missing blocking E. Staal's EN goal at the end of regulation.
Phaneuf might have gotten the better of the Staal brothers in hits and the fight, but the look on Eric Staal's face at the end of the game when he tees up that slapper at Phaneuf is in-*******-credible. Just seething.
Rubs hands together. It's all going according to plan - The madder Franson gets, the less likely he stay in TO and we can have a chance at him free agency. The possibility of Greene and Franson in free agency is exciting. We'll be a more attractive team this year as well.
A week ago, people were screaming to trade for a goalie cuz they didn't think Mrazek could get it done ... now people are proposing we trade Howie and let Mrazek run with it (in another post). I thought the Wings fan base was more intelligent than that ... guess I was wrong.
The media (NHL.com, few other non-local writers) speculated that we needed a trade for goalie. I didn't really see anyone around here propose that.
Love Mrazek. Love how nonchalantly he was handling the puck in overtime with players on him.
A team hovering around middle of the pack for an extended period of time.
We're 4 pts. out of 1st in the East.
A team that struggles to get the puck out of the defensive zone.
A team who's offense is being hampered because they all have to wait around for the puck to advance or stay in the D zone to help get it out.
So we trade away the 2 player with the most points to fix our offence?
A team that has had over six years to address the D in either free agency or trade and has not been able to find the right blend of value.
Sick of this one. After Lidstrom/Rafalski/Stuart leaving there was bound to be readjustment. The D has been fine this year (though it needs offensive upgrade) and we have a lot of great prospects - Our D will be alright going forward.
I see a team that is fun to watch and follow that is going to need an influx of talent within two years and because the new NHL it is tough "for us" to aquire via trade or Free Agency.
Influx of new talent: XO, Pulkkinen, Sproul, Marchenko, Jensen, Mantha, Athanasiou, Mrazek, Larkin, Melen (for BottleofSmoke)
There are contending teams on the edge that DO have quality prospects that could contribute in a couple years.
LIke us? (See above)
How long is Hank goung to love having his lower back targeted 80 games a year without a real shot at going deep into the playoffs?
He signed the huge deal - he knew there would be down years. He's won a cup, played in the playoff every year of his career - few players can say that. I doubt his view on the situation is as yours is.
Is Pav satisfied playing withought the opportunity to go deep?
The fact that he just re-signed and said he wanted to end his NHL career here says he's happy with the situation/direction
Are Hank & Pav are content, I hope they are. I really do. It's a board. it's about exchanging ides.
Agreed, but you should have known your proposal would be greeted with a lot of push back.