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Member Since 17 Jul 2010
Offline Last Active Aug 18 2014 05:42 PM

#2524234 Compliance buyout expected to be used on Tootoo

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 17 June 2014 - 12:36 PM


The points are the same but I'd argue that 27 and 11 are a far cry from 16 and 25. We need him putting the puck in the net more, not trying to be fancy.

07-08 GP: 72

13-14 GP: 54


He actually had more PPG, but yes more of those were goals in 08.

If he's healthy, plays a full season, hopefully he scores his usual 27-30 goals this year. History says he will.

#2524095 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 16 June 2014 - 09:27 PM

Typical Holland....re-sign Monster and be riddles with injuries again... Holland is an idiot if he re-signs monster, there are FAR better back-ups out there to sign and at the same price and term...oh wait, we got a far better one in Mrazek already signed.  Get ready for Q and Cleary to be back along with Alfredsson.  The only UFA's you are going to see Holland get are unproven, undrafted projects...  No Cup again. Holland could give two s***s about getting Datsyuk another Cup in the next 3 years....didn't he learn from the Lidstrom retirement that once your star realizes that you aren't making any efforts to get the Cup, he will stop re-signing.  Holland probably thinks that in 3 years Datsyuk will start signing one year contracts until he is 42.  Think again Holland, youf****** idiot.  Hey, instead of finding healthier, better players, lets just keep the ones that SUCKED the entire year.  f*** this!

I think an injury prone Monster for one year would actually be a really good situation. That way, Mrazek gets another year being Starter in GR, but also gets to play some NHL games when Monster inevitably goes down with the pulled groin.


I previously said I wanted Nabokov - and he would be great -, but it's going to be hard to get any quality backup to come here for just one year. Because of his injury problems, Monster probably wouldn't be in huge demand and hopefully will be willing to make it a one year deal. If he signs for 2 years I won't like it.


P.S. Impressive Rant.

#2523644 Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 June 2014 - 07:37 PM

A forward is the best option IMO for a few reasons.

First we need some more balance(righties).
Second we have lack of center depth...remember Anderson as first line center??!!!?!?
Third can Weiss be the number two?
Fourth who takes over for dat if he retires at end of current deal?
Fifth and most importantly IMO....I'm 99% sure we won't get a TOP PAIRING defenseman. There's none in UFA and none for trade...now a bottom pairing or a righty?? Sure we can are but forward just is easier to get more talent at which we do need.

Also we new size. Tatar and nyquist have shown skill but they continue the Detroit tradition of no size. Which is what he had a convo of size AND skill as does very other team when they're dominate.









We do not have a lack of center depth. the andersson at 1st line center was a perfect storm of everybody getting injured. 

#2523508 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 11 June 2014 - 12:15 PM

Did you even watch the Canadians? Hell even NBC guys commented in it a couple times. He was always a threat and putting pressure on the opposing team.

I live in Montreal. There's pretty much citywide disapproval of the way Vanek played.  I watched all the Canadiens/ Rangers series - they broke down two goal against where CBC guys specifically blamed Vanek because he didn't backcheck 


Search Thomas Vanek news for further reviews of his playoff performance:





#2523493 GM moves

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 11 June 2014 - 11:19 AM

Fg is right/wrong a bit here. Yes Toews will get huge money. But and this is key. If he becomes a UFA other teams can only sign him to a 7 year deal if that happens he gets 10 mill/cap hit. By resigning with the B hawks they can resign him to an 8 year deal. That will allow them to get a lower cap hit. 70 mill divided by 8 years. kane is not in the same class as Toews. In 7 full seasons he has hit 30 goals once. A typical year is 23-27 goals. Good player yes, but not a superstar. 6.5-7 mill is more like it for him.

I definitely think Toews is the better player, but the stats you showed don't say much. If you're comparing goals, Toews has only reached 30 goals twice. Also, Kane scored 29 in 69 games this year and 23 in 47 games last year - if you prorate that to a full season, that's basically him being a 30 goal scorer 3 out of 6 years. Anyway, point-wise they're pretty equal and they're both definitely stars


Toews is a great leader the more of a complete player. I actually think they'll make pretty much the same amount if only because Toews seems likely to take a bigger discount to help the team.

#2523387 Dan Boyle's rights traded to the Islanders…..

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 June 2014 - 10:53 AM

I would be ok with Boyle for two years...as long as Holland had another, better D man in mind to acquire as well AND gets better in the top 6.

So where do our highly touted defensive prospects go?

#2523039 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 June 2014 - 03:43 PM


No, you're still playing games with contract amounts.  


You can't compare AAV on a single year basis as a barometer of what the expectations are.  These contracts are handed out at different times with the cap at different levels and the team in very different conditions.  A UFA signed on short notice in 2013 to fill the hole vacated by Flip is a very different situation than re-signing a roster player in 2009 that the Red Wings drafted.


You're completely ignoring that the Wings gave Franzen an 11 year contract.  The second longest contract in the history of the franchise.  You only do that with a player you want to be the core of your team.  If you look at quotes from the time I bet Holland says as much. 


Again, it all gets back to the point as to why people are content with someone with his size and ability underperforming.   Frankly I don't care what he's paid.  I'm not footing the bills.  If the Wings want to win more than one playoff game they need guys who compete night in and night out.  


Franzen has the size and skillset to be much better than he is.  Or more accurately be as good as he is at times more often.

Why are falsely claiming that "I'm playing games" and "shifting my argument?" We just disagree about what his contract says about his expected contribution to the team. Respect my view as I do yours. I'm putting up real numbers as support - I'm not playing with them. For me, the cap hit is all important in the cap world. 


Yes, he was signed for an 11 year contract - it says he meant to be a part of the team for a long time. We just disagree how large a part. I think, if he was expected to contribute closer to the level of Z and Dats then his cap hit would be closer to theirs. And yet many fans are always angry at him for not being at that level. It's understandable because of his stretches of great play. If he was that player consistently, though, he'd be paid much more.


Franzen needs to be better than he was this playoffs, but that can probably be said about every player on the team. Yet Franzen is the lightning rod for hate. Franzen is not one of the drivers of our bus - not paid like that, won't be that guy consistently. 

#2523005 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 06 June 2014 - 11:26 AM


Now you're shifting your argument.  Franzen was absolutely meant to be the #3 guy.  Not someone who helps out for stretches during the year.   Yes, Holland's cap circumvention keeps it from being an awful contract as long as the cap keeps going up (which it likely will).  But that doesn't change the expectation of him. 


During the regular season he is somewhat of a lower tier Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  During the playoffs however, Franzen is nowhere close anymore. 


I just don't get how people are content with a 6'3" 225 lb guy with the skill of Franzen who floats around, disappears for long stretches, and seems content with his performance.  Against Boston the Wings needed the Mule more than ever, and he was once again a no-show.

How so? The conversation started with someone saying he was the guy. I said he isn't. you brought in the idea of a #3 guy, - that still seems to denote that he's grouped in with Datsyuk and Zetterberg in terms of expectation.  I said his money shows he is expected to be a supporting cast member. That seems pretty consistent to me. 


As for the #3 guy thing, The money now shows that Weiss is expected to be more of a contributor than Franzen. Alfie was also above Franzen this past year. 


Also, to clarify. I'm not a huge fan of Mr. Mule. He's not certainly not a complete player, but he's not paid like a complete player. I just think the hate he get is over the top.

#2522962 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 05 June 2014 - 10:33 PM


He was supposed to be guy #3.   


He was given $43 million dollars.  the cap hit argument uses the car payment sales trick.  They don't ask how much you're looking to spend, they ask how much you can afford per month.   If you finance a $43,000 car for 11 years, the monthly payments don't look half bad.  That doesn't mean you're happy when it drives like a Chevy Malibu because the payments are the same size.


The fact is the Red Wings don't hand out 11 year contracts to players they only expect to help out in stretches during the year.   As far as I know the only player they've signed for longer than Franzen is the captain of the team.  And Z has more compete level in his beard than "Mule" has in his entire body. 

The contract is too long - i was a gamble and I'm sure the organization was hoping he continue being the playoff mule he'd been before and the contract could have been a steal if he had. But he was signed to be the tier lower than Dats and Zetterberg and he is that. The Cap hit shows that. And for that cap hit his production is good.


The car financing analogy really doesn't seem to be all that meaningful to me. I'm sure there are a lot of secondary players that will make around that much over an 11 year period - just not in one contract. To pick a name who's listed as a comparable to Franzen on capgeek, If Mike Fischer plays 4 more years after his current contract(after next year) at around 3.4 mil. (he will probably get more). he will have made 43 mill over 11 years. he'd be 38 at the end of that. Franzen will be 39 at the end of his contract.


The length of Franzen's contract just means that there's a risk that he declines to the point where he his production doesn't warrant the cap hit. The thing to think about with this, though, is that salaries will continue to go up so 3.9 mill in 2019 will definitely get a lower level player than it will now - so Franzen may not be overpaid that much at the end of his contract.

#2522943 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 05 June 2014 - 07:18 PM

He's not the guy. Zetterberg and Dats are the guys. Franzen helps out in stretches during the year. His cap hit is not of "the guy". he makes Bickell money, Hudler money, Briere money...

#2522350 Jeff Blashill close to signing an extension... Babcock talks starting

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 01 June 2014 - 07:03 PM

The Berensen comment was a joke and it was said in the context of: my daughter has one year left in high school so I have to stay in Detroit one year for that so, if I'm not with the wings, I'll go be Red's assistant. There's no way Babs would drop down to College level hockey - he's very competitive guy and surely wants to compete at the highest level.

#2521992 The Franzen Hate.

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 28 May 2014 - 05:23 PM

Top 6? Ok just some random numbers from the 2013/14 season. Rankings are just among forwards.


139th in Goals

112th is assists

335th in games played

102th in TOI/G

110th in face off win %

122nd in points

221st in hits

245th in blocked shots

289th in takeaways


Those are top 6 numbers for you? Ok if you take the truly generous position that there are 180 top 6 forwards in the NHL-which of course is just silly, then maybe you could find some way to say Franzen is a top 6 forward.

That's really kind of ridiculous. Franzen only played 54 games - of course he isn't going to rank near the top of the league. Because of the games missed, the only stats that mean anything are TOI/G where he's well above 180 and faceoff % where he is as well (even though he's not a centerman)


Now let's do it for Datsyuk:


GP: 549th

Goals: 126TH

Assists: 214TH

Points: 176TH

Goals: 126TH

assists: 214TH

Points: 176TH

+/-: 293RD


Are those the numbers of a #1 center and 7.5 million man? he just squeezes in the top 6. Let's get the pitchforks and charge them all out of town! This is fun 

#2520262 Canada can support 3 more teams in 20yrs

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 13 May 2014 - 06:06 PM


You want to look at MSA (or other aggregate measures like CMA for Canda) population when talking about the ability to support a team. While the city of Buffalo has a population of 259,384, the two county MSA (only US) has over 1.1 million people.


I don't see Saskatoon getting a team in the near future- the CMA has ~260,000 and less than .5 million when combined with Regina. While the games might sell-out, the corporate money and television broadcast rights would likely be too small. Canadian teams also have to deal with the USD exchange rate.


If there is another expansion, I hope to see a Seattle team and a Quebec City team.

Okay, if you look at those numbers, Quebec City is already larger than Winnipeg.


Quebec City: 765,706

Winnipeg: 730,018

Hamilton: 721,053


Hamilton is low but, like I said, it is about an hour away from Kitchener (477,160), St. Catherines (392,184), Brantford (135,501) and Toronto (5,583,064). Without including Toronto, that's 1,725,898. I believe Hamilton would be the safest bet. And, yes, I agree - say no to Saskatoon.


At the end of the day, though, you do have to ignore the number and look at level to which Hockey is present in the culture of an area. If you only look at the numbers, why wasn't Atlanta (MSA: 5,522,942) a slam dunk and was is Florida struggling  (Miami: 5,828,191)


If you go to Quebec City during the winter, there's outdoor rink on like every other block (slight exaggeration, but only slightly). The answer people always give back is: but they had team and it failed. From everything I've read, the financial problems were due to the fact that they couldn't get English media deals (and, therefore, english TV audiences) and couldn't get corporate backing for a new arena. Media is certainly very different than 1995. The Canadian sports media goes crazy over any Canadian team now and I'm sure CBC or TSN would be all over a deal. Hell, CBC even shows games in Punjabi so I'm sure they'd want to serve English Nordique fans. As for financial backing, the municipality is building them a rink and there's not even a team yet so clearly there's money to back them. 


Also, the Canadian dollar argument isn't as meaningful as it used to be since the CAN dollar has been pretty high for quite a while.

#2519975 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 May 2014 - 07:56 PM



I know he is a good coach, but I grow tired of his lineup decisions. Remember, he only played the kids because he was forced to due to injury. If Cleary hadn't been injured, he damn sure would have been in the lineup. Look how Bertuzzi kept getting in, even though the kids were outplaying him.


bring in Larionov.

That's not true. Cleary was scratched before he was injured. Bertuzzi only got in 1 playoff game when no one was looking effective. He was playing before late in the season because we were missing pretty much everyone and the kids were still in the lineup so he wasn't taking their spots.


Beware of the grass on the other side.

#2519626 So what do we have to trade?

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 07 May 2014 - 03:17 PM


helm and Glendening. Physically they are twins. both about 5-11/195. On the ice they are very similar. Helm a little faster, Glendening a little grittier. Both play the same position: checking line C. Glendening is 2 years younger and about 1.5 million cheaper. I would keep Glendening and use Helm in a trade to fill our 2 major holes.

I really don't think Helm and Glendening are similar at all. Helm got 12 goals in 42 games this season and has really started to show some offensive ability. Secondary scoring is essential to team success - especially on a team that is starving for offence. Also, of course, he's been a great PKer. Helm can move up and down the line up 2nd line to 4th line. He's also been around for a while and in the age group of players that hopefully are becoming leaders for us. He shows incredibly hard work and that should be an example for the rest of the team. Yes he's been injured, but I think he's unmovable unless it's a huge return.


I like Glendening, but he's only shown defensive abilities. Great at shutting down stars and PK, but I really don't know how you can see these 2 as similar players. 


If Weiss works out as 2nd line center, then we do he have 1 too many centers and one of Sheahan, Helm, and Glendening would have to be moved to the wing or else they could become expendable. It would be a hard decision since I like them all.


Oh, and Andersson, Miller, Tootoo(who will be bought out), Kindl, Lashoff(though good 7th D) are expendable, but I really don't know how much he'd get in return


I Like Smith, Dekeyser, E, Kronwall on Defence. If 2 young guys grab roster spots then we have some tradeable D prospects