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Member Since 17 Jul 2010
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#2534357 Kevin Hayes

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 15 August 2014 - 10:05 PM

I would've liked the wings to get him. Hayes> cleary and alfie

Alfie is a future hall of famer. Even at 40 he scored 18 goals and 49pts in 68 games. A player who hasn't played a game in the NHL and had 1 really good year in college hockey is better than him? That's a big leap of faith to me.

#2534134 Alfie wants to play

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 August 2014 - 11:56 PM


I'm about to blow your mind.  If injuries weren't a concern over the last 5 years, Dats, Z, Helm, Weiss, and Franzen would have played more.  But guys like Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Cleary, Kindl, White, Colaiacovo, Eaves, Emmerton, and Gustavsson would have played MORE too. 


Conversely, guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, Sheahan, Jurco, and Mrazek would have played less. 


It's entirely possible that we could have been a WORSE team without injuries than with them.


You don't get to pick and choose the effect that injuries have.  Gotta take the bad with the good.  And when you have a s***ty roster, losing bad players to injury is a net positive. 




We were talking about over the last five years.  All of those guys (Bert, Cleary, Sammy, etc.) had significantly bigger roles in the last five years than they did last year, were not regular scratches, but were not in the lineup nightly because of injuries.  Net positive. 


And even if that weren't true, you're still making my point for me, which is that just because injuries severely diminished our success last season...they didn't noticeably impact us (for the worse) the four post-seasons before that.


Edit:  Actually, I take that back.  Even last year.  Without injuries there were not enough roster spots or cap space to call up ANY of Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco.  No injuries means Dats, Z, Franzen, and Alfie would have been surrounded by garbage all season.  Look at our opening day roster.  You think that team's winning anything?  Nope.

Okay, I think I figured out what you're saying. I think you have a number of points - none of which i was helping you prove.

 I think you're saying that Bert, Sammy, and Cleary getting injured was a good thing because it took them out of the lineup. To me that's a complicated "what if." For one thing, If those three weren't injured maybe they would've been effective players. To me, Cleary has only been bad the last 2 years and that definitely has something to to with his knee problems. I think Bert was a positive asset until last 2 years and that probably owes to his missing almost all of 12-13 with injuries. If Sammy came here, wasn't injured and played the way he did in Van and FLA he wouldn't have received as many death threats from LGW members.


In the 1st quoted section you seem to extend this to say: without injuries to knocked these 3 out we could have been a worse team in the past 5 years due to their collective presence. Even if I allow the idea that that is a positive, you're talking about the effect of injuries in general so the loses of Helm Z, etc would definitely counteract those "positives" and surely you wouldn't end up with a "net positive."


Also, you say that injuries didn't "noticeably impact us (for the worse) the four post-seasons before that." (last year). I really disagree with that. 2 years ago when we were a goal away from advancing past the Hawks, I think it's very debatable whether a healthy Helm and Dekeyser could have pushed us over the edge. Either way, not having those 2 had a noticeably negative impact on the team in my opinion.


As for your "edit:" statement, where you say that injuries were a positive thing even last year because they allowed Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan to get in the lineup. This goes against your own statement that: "You don't get to pick and choose the effect that injuries have.  Gotta take the bad with the good." The injuries to D,Z, Weiss etc. clearly counteract the positive of getting Nyquist,Jurco and the Teletubby.


As a sidenote: Sammy, Eaves, Tootoo were put in the AHL. Cleary, Bert were healthy scratches at times. All the things could have allowed Nyquist to be on the team. I realize that some of these moves were done after and possibly because of Nyquist's move up to the NHL, but there were many possible ways to get Nyquist on the team and I think he's there by Christmas even without injuries. As for Jurco, Sheahan and how much they play, that's a different story.

#2533487 Paul McCartney and the Red Wings

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 01 August 2014 - 09:29 PM

We should cement this relationship and name the new arena Octopus's Garden!


Maybe Ringo can be the corporate sponsor.

#2533445 Predictions for the DRW 2014-15 Season!

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 01 August 2014 - 12:24 AM

Even healthy the team hardly killed and lost against very beatable enemies. To each their own opinion but most experts and people in the know would put the Bolts and Pens over the Wings and rightfully so. The Rangers have a great defense and well the King, Habs Price so yeah even fully healthy those teams are just better. I would go as far saying that this Wings edition will be worse than the one we've had last season. The defense just isn't good enough to get the job done

Well, Weiss was never healthy last year so he can be thought of a new asset. Without considering him, though, I don't think there was ever a time last year when vets were healthy (Z, Dats, Franzen, Helm) and the kids (Nyquist, Tats, Jurco, Sheahan) were on the team. That combination, Weiss playing realgud, and if Howard returns to form, then I really think this is a very different team. Lots of ifs, but I'm pretty optimistic. 


Bolts and Pens also have uncertainty as well:


Pens: How will they play under a new coach? How will their defence be with Niskanen and Orpik being replaced by erhoff? How much will the loss of James Neil be felt?


Bolts: What will it be like without St. Louis for a whole season? Will Bishop be that good again? - he did have wrist surgery during this offseason. Will Stralman and Wideman fix their defence problems? (alright so the last question is almost certainly yes)

#2533229 Tatar Signs 3 Year Deal $2.75 mill AAV

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 28 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

Whether people love the money angle of the deal or not, at least we can say that the guy actually did something to earn his deal. I like it personally, especially considering we really haven't been spending to the cap the last few years. We didn't do as well as we perhaps could've by Tatar the last year or so, and giving him a deal like this makes up for it a bit without it truly being any sort of overpayment. 

That's not true. Last year we were so close to the cap that we had to do all kinds of financial acrobatics to make it work.


Great to sign Tatar! Lead the Griffins to the Calder Cup and won the trophy for playoff MVP. scores 19 goals in 73 games in his first full season with the wings. I think the money is fine when you think of all that 

#2532751 2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 21 July 2014 - 10:06 PM


It's a moot point since we have Quincey signed, but I definitely would've taken a flyer on Del Zotto with Babs teaching him. Guy has undeniable offensive talents, just needs some work in the d-zone.

Del Zotto is also 24! Most of our players have barely seen the NHL by that age and he's played 5 years. I think that things point to him turning things around and he could be a steal for someone. Just needs some good guidance.


As a side note, I think he's a good example of what can happen to a player when they don't play at least their first year in the AHL.

#2531888 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 12 July 2014 - 11:24 PM


It has the potential and likelihood of being $2.5 million for a player that produced all of eight points last season. Tomas Jurco scored eight goals alone in about 15 fewer games than Cleary and was a big reason why the Red Wings made the playoffs at all. If your argument is that this deal is somehow a bargain for Cleary, I completely disagree. Brendan Morrow and Dany Heatley got less money than Cleary too, so there's two examples of (better) veteran players that were more affordable than Cleary. 


Cleary got his chance last season to go out with his head held high (a mistake a year ago too, no less) at the expense of the Red Wings MVP. There's plenty to be upset about. Hence, 24 pages of this thread and not many positive vibes going around. 

I don't like the signing, but I don't think money is really worth complaining about. Last year when Cleary signed at 1.75 mill it was definitely less than what he would have made elsewhere. It was also less than we offered him earlier (2 mill I think). He did this because we were against the cap by the time signed. 2.5 is partly paying for last year's salary I think. This year we are not going to be close to the cap and the 1.5 mill cap hit won't matter. The 1 mill bonus will count against next year's cap - a year when we'll have Mzasek, Mantha, Sproul, and maybe others at low caphit - so it won't matter.


The reason to get mad about this signing is because he showed himself as a very ineffective player last year and he takes a roster spot.


P.S. Holland said specifically that Cleary would have to beat someone out for a spot and would be a good insurance (paraphrase - I forget exact words.) I still feel like there's a good chance that doesn't play 10 games. If he does play more than 10 games then hopefully it is because the Dan Cleary of old is magically (or medically) back. I'm okay with those 2 scenarios.

#2531398 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 10 July 2014 - 09:55 PM

Sign and trade?


Technically he would have kept his promise.


Tell teams we'll even keep 2.5 mill of his salary.

#2530720 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 08 July 2014 - 10:51 PM

I agree on Tatar. Beyond size and defensive shortcomings he is a really special player I feel. Nothing like Hudler except in those two characteristic (and perhaps a propensity to party). Tatar is a catalyst - he drives the play, make something from nothing, provides that spark, (and other cliches). It's that winning drive that you see in him that I think is actually rare. Babcock put as "one of the ones that drives the bus." at some point this past year.

#2529995 Dont Jump Yet...

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 04 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

And that's why the regular season is the regular season... We beat the Kings too but wouldn't have stood a chance against them in the playoffs, we have a completely hollow defense

So teams don't try in the regular season? Or there level of play in the regular season isn't indicative of their level? So Edmonton could possibly win in the playoffs if they would just make it?


I don't buy that the "regular season is the regular season" What is there to back it up? There's always logic behind the discrepancies.


We beat the kings in the season because they had some real problems with offence during the season. They worked things out and also brought in Gaborik, which gave them a big boost in the playoffs.


We lost so handily to the Bruins in the playoffs because Z and Datsyuk were dealing with significant injuries, our youth disappeared with the playoff pressure due to inexperience, Ericsson injuries forced the Kindl and Lashoff, Weiss injured forced Legwand on the team unsettling the lineup even more since he played himself onto the 4th line.


I know, I know, no excuses - but come on - Those factors don't account for the difference between regular season results against the Bruins and playoff results?

#2527470 UFA day looking up

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 30 June 2014 - 11:22 PM

The Wings will look to re-sign defenseman Kyle Quincey


Per the Red Wings official website

...and the rest of the sentence: ",but the 28-year-old will most likely receive a bigger offer on the open market than Detroit is willing to spend."



#2527423 Red Wings rookie camp roster revealed

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 30 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

Hampus Melen must still be injured or still playing in Sweden so I'm glad we gave a tryout to Hampus Gustafsson to fullfill our organizational need for more Hampus.

#2527354 UFA day looking up

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 30 June 2014 - 07:29 PM

Obviously father does taxes the body, but do you guys actually think that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are going to play less games than last year? That just seems to fall in the "negative for the sake of being negative" category. 


Zetterberg got surgery for his back, said he felt like a new man. Datsyuk is a little less certain, but - come on - they missed half the year. They will be healthier than that.

#2527315 UFA day looking up

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 30 June 2014 - 05:13 PM

if Kenny doesn't pick up a fwd then i think we can pencil in Mantha and id love to see the kid get a fair crack at it.

Without signing anyone he'd have to beat out Jurco. Also, Alfie will probably sign and we'll have this. I think it's pretty certain Mantha will start in GR.






#2526891 BUF to buy out Christian Ehrhoff

Posted by PavelValerievichDatsyuk on 29 June 2014 - 12:16 PM

I don't get why so many seem to think this would be a better signing than Niskanen. Erhoff turns 32 in about a week. he isn't physical at all, average defensively, and hasn't been great offensively either. yes some of that is because of playing with Buff, but overall just average. he is at the age where he is just leaving what should have been the prime years of his career.


Erhoff 32, 6-2/195 LHed, on a good team good for 35-40 points per season, going to make 5+ million and I am sure he is going to be looking for at least 4 years, maybe 5.


Niskanen 27 6-0/210 RHed, on a good team good for 40+ points, strong in his own end, and going to be looking for 6 million on a max term-7 years.


Now if we don't get Niskanen then going after erhoff makes some sense. he is an upgrade over quincy. But at this point he is clearly a second option.

1st of all - you clearly ignore Erhoff's 2 years in Vancouver where he scored 44 and 50 points. He got 38 this year on a very bad Sabres team. 


2nd - are we really considering 32 too old? Niskanen also turns older this year (who would have thought?) so they're only 4 years apart. We don't even know how long we would sign them for. Erhoff clearly has the more proven track record.


Niskanen's Right handedness is attractive. If we signed Erhoff we'd be counting on Marchenko or Sproul to be our RH Dman.


This is getting exciting! Wonder if any other unexpected buyouts happen.