I agree with the whole sentiment that Detroit doesnt need a goon and could use another guy who can play a bit and be tough but are you forgetting the team Cherry is in love with? The bruins, to say he wouldnt allow American teams isnt true at all.
I dont think the wings are softer then a few teams out there, but they are definitely soft and could use another Abdelkader in the lineup.
PS isnt it nice to see Abdelkader manning up now and actually scrapping? 5 fights now, probably end up with 6 or 7 before the year is done and hes getting a lot better at it too
I like the Abs has stepped up in the role he's apparently been assigned, but i also think that he has disappeared in every other aspect of the game. In years prior, he always played physical but didn't fight a whole lot. He had on offensive side and played well with the puck, but i feel that he's gone backwards in most categories and seems to try and be making up for it by filling the gritty role that we have such a huge void for. Does anyone else see that? Or am i just blinded by how well everyone else is playing that I'm just complaining to complain here?
Cleary needs to stay off that third line. Sorry, but I wish we could trade him. He isn't horrible, but at this point we have better top 6 players than him and better bottom six players than him. Using him to get Selanne or a Moen type player would be perfect.
helm is a far better hitter and all around player and miller has been clutch all year, abdelkader really is like a poor mans ott or clutterbuck, if he wants people to pay attention to him he has to go all out.
How is Helm a far better hitter? I cannot recall many big hits he has thrown since becoming an NHL regular. He was a big hitter as a call-up years ago, but he is not anymore. Despite his injury, Helm has more minutes on ice than Abby and still is 30+ hits behind. Abby has had many big hits this year, Helm has not.
Further, other than speed, how exactly is Helm a better all around player? See that stats Newfy posted. Helm is very noticeable because of his speed, but how does that make him an 'all around better player' if that speed doesn't translate to the other areas of his play?
Abby has spent much of the year on the fourth line with Emmerton and Homer, while Helm has played much of the year with Cleary. Cleary has regularly produced 40 points, while Homer and Emmerton aren't nearly as relevant offensively 5v5.
IMO this post is evident of the general feeling about Abby. He has more hits/min than anyone on the team, he has as many or more points/min as Helm, he has a better FO percentage than Helm, he fights, and he has a better plus-minus than Helm. I'm not saying he's better, but how exactly is Helm at another level, outside of speed, if he isn't on another level with regards to any stat outside of minutes/game?
I know my hate for Dan Cleary seems to get under a lot of Cleary lover's skin here. To me he is worthless I've been saying it for a while. So at 49 games on the books, lets see what he has done. 10 goals 11 assists
On a world class team. He's a horrible skater, injured often, and is completely worthless especially for how much he is making this year (2.8 million) Keep in mind Zetterberg's cap hit is 6 million.
So I pose this question again, without Crimson trolling me. How many of you would like to see Cleary gone at the trade deadline this year? At this point I'd trade him for a washing machine just to get him off and Mursak on.
Oh, I'm sorry. Can we not discuss the game in the game day thread? Just calling them as I see them my friend. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.
You can talk about the game day thread, but when you get on a pedastal about refereeing in a game where your team was behind the entire third period on our own board, you are going to come off as petty.
This is a Red Wings board and it is going to be biased no matter what you say. And if you have been paying attention most bitching has been during losses has been in regards to the team's play, and not marginal calls that don't directly affect the outcome of the game.
And it's a significant thing to bring up, since both instances I am referring to led to Red Wing power play goals. It directly effected the outcome of the game. So, yes, I'm annoyed by it...you guys would be if it were the other way around. I've seen plenty of bitching in here about the reffing over the years. If neither call or non-call led to anything on the scoreboard, it wouldn't be as much of an issue...but, unfortunately, that wasn't the case.
You can be annoyed. Just don't expect anyone here to sympathize. You've been involved in little trash talk with us so we are going to enjoy extending our lead against you and call you out when you resort to petty discussions about penalties.
Let's not forget that the Blues had opportunities to score on their own powerplays and didn't. They scored one goal off a bad line change and didn't find the back of the net for the rest of the game.
When Abby was first called up, he hit everything that moved and was effective on every shift. He really wanted to make the team. Now that he has his roster spot, that same hunger and aggression isn't there anymore. He still hits people, but not to the same extent and frequency.
I want to see more passion out of him again.
Our leading fighter? LOL. That's not saying much. And he's our second leading hitter because we don't have too many hitters.
My whole point is that we should look for a bigger, harder hitting 4th liner, who actually fights and can contribute what Abby contributes offensively. Such players are not that hard to find.
Abby's tenacity has gone down, but much of that is due to him playing center. At wing, that player still exists. Further, you can say the same thing about Helm. When he played as call-up in the playoffs, he was a hitting machine. Now, Helm does not make as much of an impact physically.
You want to trade Abby and not Eaves, Miller, Emmerton, and Helm despite them having similar stats. You want to trade the Wings most physical player instead of keeping him. You always complain that the Wings lack toughness, yet you want to trade the small amount of toughness they posses. Team toughness is created through multiple players- not one enforcer. If you want to Wings to have more toughness, trading Abby is not the best route.
The problem with Abdelkader is he is not good enough to play in the NHL. Not on this team anyways. If the waiver situation was reversed, we would be seeing Nyquist, and Tatar instead of Emmerton and Abdelkader.
Abby got most of his points and that big +/- playing with Cleary at the beginning of last season when Danny was scoring every time he shot the puck.
It drives me nuts that he get preferential treatment from Babcock because of his size.
Anyways, I agree with everyone about the lack of depth at centre being the bigger problem. In previous years, the Wings have had plenty of depth at centre, but now that Draper is gone and Filppula is playing wing, we've found ourselves with a serious hole up the middle.
We need to acquire a Nhl caliber centreman. If he's better than Helm and can take the 3rd line spot, Great! but if not, I'd be happy with any step up from Emmerton.
With a good enough centre I think Abdelkader can be a serviceable 4th line winger, sort of a "Mcarty light" type guy.
Let us compare Helm and Abby- I am assuming you believe that Helm is 'good enough' for the NHL while Abby is not. To put the statistics is perspective, Helm has played two less games, but he has a 2min/game TOI advantage. Helm has played ~45 min more than Abby this season. Thus, Helm's statistics (in total) should be similar or better (if you assume Helm is the better player), as it would take Abby three more games to equal Helm's total TOI.
Face off percentage: Abby has a .2 advantage. IMO this is a draw. Hits: Abby has 24 more hits than Helm. Advantage Abby. Blocked Shots: Abby has 5 more. Advantage Abby. Giveaways: Helm has 4 more. Advantage Abby. Takeaways: Helm has 8 more. Advantage Helm. Goals: Both have five. Draw. Assists: Helm has one more. IMO draw. PIM: Abby has more (minors and total). Draw IMO as Abby has off-setting minors often. +/-: Helm has a +2 advantage; however, they have equal goals for when on the ice. Draw/edge Helm. Fights: Abby has two, Helm hasn't come close. Advantage Abby.
You credit Abby's success to Cleary, but you do not credit Cleary with the success of Helm or Miller. Simply, Abby has done at least as well as Helm (on paper) despite spending more time on a line with Emmerton and Homer. Abby is not the problem, the makeup of the fourth line is the problem IMO.