As a Detroit fan, if I had a bajillion dollars (I don't, I'm from Detroit) I would immediately buy a 2nd Toronto franchise just to beat the leafs and win a cup before them and watch all of Ontario implode.
Semin is not, and never was the answer. That guy who did the Wings AMA on reddit (take it for what it's worth) indicated that the Wings were interested in signing a certain Russian winger a few years back (some say it could have been Radulov, but it was most likley Semin) and when they asked Datsyuk if he would babysit/workwithhim, Pavel gave a big fat NO.
Even if that's all made up I still don't want him. Semin would last exactly one season, if that, with Babcock. Franzen actually plays defense, despite what his detractors here will tell you.
Some people are saying andersson is better than disney.com. That is nonsense. Andersson can't shut down top lines and frustrate an entire team the way disney.com does, to me he is worth keeping on the fourth line just because he aggravates people. 4th liners shouldn't be expected to go out and score a bunch of goals. It's a checking line for a reason. He works hard, plays gritty and throws people off their game.
I honestly think he does none of that. He plays positional D with very little grittiness. He's more expendable than Cleary IMO. the fact that he's young is the only reason I feel like keeping him around at this point.
I mean you hit on the areas Glendening is superior to Andersson, but neglected the other side. Andersson has more offensive ability (not saying much compared to Glendening), is better at faceoffs and penalty killing, while being very comparable defensively to Glendening. So far, Andersson's best showing of hockey (playoffs 2013) is more impressive than anything Glendening has displayed. Again, I don't really care if either is on the team, but I think Glendening is severely overhyped because of the agitating angle.
I guess we will just agree to disagree on Jurco. I don't really care about losing players for nothing if they are expendable for starters. If Callahan is worthy of a roster spot, that's what the pre-season is for him to go out and earn it. The Red Wings can't afford a ten game tryout for the regular season since they are more than likely going to be fighting for their playoff lives again.
IMO that's not what you want from a 4th line C or any 4th line player. You are on the 4th line to shutdown defensively and fight, check, and agitate. Everything the top lines don't do. Andersson has a good defensive mindset and can win FO's but Glendening is a gym freak, mouth running, maltby type. I'd take his 7 pts over Andersson's 17 pts on the 4th line everyday of the week. Plus Glendening is tremendously faster than Andersson. Speed has been the name of the game for years now.
The point I'm advocating is keeping our top guy (Jurco) while also giving our unproven guys a chance. I think that's incredibly fair. Everyone stays with the team as long as they perform. Jurco was good, but was by no means the difference maker. You act like if he doesn't play the wings are going to lose those first ten games. He was secondary support at best. That, of all things, can be gambled with for the betterment of the team as a whole...
I prefer Andersson out of the two, but both are expendable in reality. The Wings are already set up the middle with Weiss back, so I don't really see where Andersson or Glendening fit into the picture without injuries.
Jurco was a fringe NHL player because he wasn't even 21 years old and then he proved during his time that he was good enough to stay. Glendening, Andersson and Callahan are fringe NHL players because none of them possess a skill set that is anything special to warrant an every day roster spot. Skill isn't the question with Jurco -- he held his own in a third line role and has immense talent to continue developing against quality competition.
My argument has nothing to do with whether Jurco will make the team. That status was pretty much cemented by Cleary, maybe Alfie and the previously mentioned guys. My stance is that Jurco should be playing for the Red Wings regardless of his Grand Rapids option, the "logjam" at forward or whatever other reason people use for sending him down.
Some agree more with Holland's overripe strategy and that's fine. I do think it has its merits at times and has worked before. However, I do believe it should be on a case-by-case basis instead of this overriding philosophical organizational belief that we cling to no matter what. Sending Jurco down "just because you can" is silly and a cop out to keep lesser players around that don't help the team win now or in the future. It's not like the Red Wings are this juggernaut championship contender anymore where they can afford to stash young talent in the minors.
He's fast, good on the defensive side, and nasty to play against. Andersson is slow, good on the defensive side, and not agitating what so ever. There's a reason Babs loves Glendening. Callahan seems to be shaping up to be a Clarkson type (before Toronto). He goes to dirty areas and scores. Great compliment to more skilled players. To say they are both worthless expendable players is just as much a cop out as clinging to the over-ripening strategy for no good reason.
I'm more interested in seeing Jurco start the season in GR for business reasons. Say what you want about over-ripening. Starting Jurco is extremely poor asset protection. Giving away anything for nothing is just dumb, bad business, no matter how disinterested you seem to be in our other young players.
At the very least play them 10 games with Jurco in the minors so you can see which ones you want to keep and which you want to trade. Then trade or send the expendable ones to waivers and call up Jurco.
Glendening has shown that his hard work has made him a borderline NHL player. Jurco showed a good combination of speed size and ability and despite his defensive issues at times he deserves an NHL spot. Callahan has shown he's a good ahl role player.
The 4th line can be just as crucial as the top line. See: Grind Line.
15 points in 36 gp does not make you a bonafide NHL player by any means.
So bc Callahan has never had a shot at the NHL he's just a good AHL role player? You don't know what he's got till you play him. He was 2nd among Griffins in goals. He's no scrub. This is a business. Starting Jurco is definition poor asset management.
(Again, I fully understand The Plan. I get over-ripening as a development strategy, I've defended it a number of times. I just don't think Jurco needs the four-year apprenticeship. I don't think he needs much more - if any - time below. I think there's also a need on our team for a big, physical guy with hands and natural scoring ability. How many guys do we have like that? Franzen is big, but he's not especially physical. Abdelkader has no hands. We're not signing key free agents and we don't have much quality talent beyond our core players, so we can't necessarily afford to keep all our prospects down as long as we normally would.)
Jurco's AHL stint at the moment is less than 1 and a half seasons. I don't think he needs 4 years either, but how about 2? 2 and a half even? We are in a situation where we have a log jam at forward, and where young guys (also good players) are going to be exposed to waivers even if Jurco goes to the minors. Starting the season with him on the roster only uneededly exposes more players to waivers.
I am not willing to ship out Callahan for nothing just because a kid scored 15 pts in 36 games last season and somehow that earned him a spot in that short of a time. That's a very small sample size of games, with very moderate results, to have solidified a spot with the big boys. I don't think he at all gets priority over guys like Glendening or Callahan at this stage of his career.
Glendening is 4 years Jurco's senior and has proven to be effective in his time with the wings as well. Callahan has also shown tremendous promise and is 2 years Jurco's senior. It's now or never for those two. They deserve their shots. Jurco can wait for the first string of injuries to roll through.
To be clear, in saying I think Jurco should - and might - start the season as a Red Wing, I'm not decrying the organization's development strategy. I'm talking about Jurco, who I think is a somewhat special case as far as Wings prospects go. He has good size, he can be physically imposing, he arguably does his best work in the dirty areas (around the opposition's net), he's incredibly skilled (i.e. he's not Abdelkader), and - maybe above all - he helped the team in a specific role this past season (one third of what was one of the most electric lines in hockey, Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco). The Wings haven't had many prospects like him.
There's a good chance Jurco starts the season on the farm, but I'm willing to bet he spends most of this coming season as a Red Wing and goes into the 2015-16 season as a full-timer. I don't think management is going to give him the standard over-ripening treatment.
Well I think it's clear he's going to be #1 on speed dial when injuries begin.
I don't think he's an exception at all though. Ppl clamored for the coming of Tatar for years. Now look at him. Mature, Hungry, chip-on his shoulder, wants to be Detroit's next big thing. I absolutely love Nyquist, but no one on this team has a fire underneath them like Tatar does. You feel it every time he touches the puck. And he's in the NHL now, but he still has plenty of growing to do. Jurco playing 30 games this season would perfect IMO. I want him to dominate, I mean truly own, the AHL before becoming a full time wing. That way we can say we did our due diligence inh achieving his full potential.
Who's to say Jurco isn't the next coming (whatever that means exactly)?
Who's to say Jurco's not more special than Tatar or Nyquist and that ultimately he won't outshine one or both of them? Tatar played in 73 games last season and put up 39 points. Jurco - who's two years Tatar's junior (21 and 23, respectively) - did put up only 15 points last season, but he only played in 36 games. Had he played in 73 games, he likely would've been good for about 30 points, not far off from Tatar's 39.
Does a player have to be the next coming to play in our top nine?
A key reason why Tatar and Nyquist were held down so long: they're smallish skill players. Jurco has the makings of a power forward.
Just saying. If we opened the season with Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco as our third line, I doubt many people would be saying, "Yeah, Jurco's ok, but clearly he needs some more on the farm." Instead, I think we say what we said about that line last season: "This line is the s***!"
Again, I'll have to apologize to you. Even if he is the next great wing, already ready, at the mere age of 21, he's not going to be on the starting roster. Have you been absent the last 10 years? Jurco isn't starting here in Detroit, and that's just me regurgitating wings rhetoric, not an opinion. PWF or not, he's in GR. That has nothing to do with it. Early career sucsuess has nothing to do with it either, in GR. If you wanna make a bet that he'll be on our opening day roster, I'd gladly take it.
Is losing Callahan, Ferraro or even Glendening for nothing that big of a deal? I personally wouldn't care if none of the three played for the Wings. I want to win games; not uphold a philosophy of forcing prospects to be overripe, which hasn't gotten the team anywhere in five years. Jurco deserves to be in the NHL, regardless of the circumstances or taking the easy way out.
So Callahan Ferraro and Glendening don't get a chance? I'm unsure about Ferraro, but I really like Glendening, and I've LOVED Callahan thus far. You don't even want to give them 10 games to see what they've got? Jurco will be #1 call up, it's not like he's not going to play. It's not the easy way out, it's the logical way to handle a business. Jurco scored 15 pts in his first stint, I liked him a lot, but he's far from the next coming. Tatar has been playing for this organization since 09. Nyquist since 2010. Jurco started in GR in 2012. He has more time to do. He is not more special than Tatar or Nyquist.
If Ferraro, Callahan, Andersson, and Glendening are all bums this year, by all means call him up. But's probably going to come when injuries hit. Sorry.