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Member Since 22 Nov 2010
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#2438169 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 21 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

They're better right now, but It's not like they're miles ahead of Jensen.


http://www.redwingsc....com/prospects/ , http://www.hockeysfu...roit_red_wings/


Out of the 25 top prospects on RedWingsCentral, Sproul is ranked #6, Ouellet ranked #8, and Jensen is ranked #13. Jensen's not that far at all. Sproul and Ouellet have also fallen slightly on the prospect rankings recently, while Jensen has been shooting up the list. Again, there's a reason why Jensen won the equivalent of the Norris trophy in his league last year.


How about another source? on Hockey's Future Sproul and Ouellet are given an identical talent score rating of 7.0 and an identical probability of success grade of C. Jensen is given a talent score of 6.5 and probability of grade of C. Again, not that far off from them at all.


Sproul and Ouellet are not un-tradeable, untouchable guys.


Frankly none of our prospects are un-tradeable. We don't have any Dumba's, Reilly's, Reinhart's, Murray's, or Trouba's in our system. Especially with the current state of things, I don't think even guys like Nyquist are untouchable. There's a reason that when trade threads pop up on here people typically include guys like Mrazek (despite him being ranked as our #2 prospect) in trade ideas. He actually has value, but isn't the caliber - at least yet - of a Hall, Larsson, or Fowler type prospect that is almost immediately ready for NHL. Those guys are untouchable bonafide future leaders of their franchises.


Take a look at Hockey's Future again and look at a guy like Ryan Murray. #2 overall pick by the Jackets, but not a guy that immediately jumped to NHL so he's still a prospect. He's a ranked at a talent level of 8.0 and probability of success grade of B. That's a full point ahead of Sproul and Ouellet in both categories. That's the kind of guy that's approaching untouchable status. (IMO I wouldn't say even he is absolutely 100% untradeable, though I doubt it's very likely)


If the great one can be traded, anyone can be traded.


Great prospects, but in no way does that warrant special treatment.


It's well known that our entire farm system is full of boom or busters. It lacks blue chip prospects but also lacks bad prospects. So why would anyone in particular get special treatment? Detroit is known for the exact opposite of coddling it's prospects as well. We force ALL our prospects down - including the Tatars and Nyquists of the world - and make them go above and beyond to earn a spot.


It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a guy like Jarnkrok or Mantha bust, only to have a guy like Tvrdon (ranked #19) make the team one day.


I hope the mods on this site have intollerance for unwarranted source requests and issue warnings and proceed with consequences to the posters who distract the discussions with this nonsense. It's irritating.

Back to Lil Bert. Is he good at agitating? Obviously. Do we need that? No. Jensen doesnt need to be agitated or have his patience tested by players wearing the same crest he has on. He will get that from opponents enough times.


Why would we not need that? In fact that's the one thing we're missing - the physical, gritty, agitating side of the game. Sure we need a top line Sniper as well. But those are very hard to come by, and we have a ton of depth scoring to make up for it. The team is loaded with soft type players, so I think it's good to start adding some nastyness to compliment them.


Take a look at this years draft. We selected a lot of physical, gritty, and pk type guys. Namely: Nastasiuk, Bertuzzi, Pope, Wheaton, McNulty. IMO that show's that Holland thinks he's got a good possible future core locked up in the likes Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Frk, Jarnkrok, Mantha, Ferraro, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, Athanasiou, and Tvrdon. Now he's adding players with a knack for the physical side of the game to round out that future scoring core.


I think people on this site have a much bigger pet peeve for unsourced statements my friend.

#2438161 Jets release Ian White

Posted by number9 on 21 September 2013 - 05:09 PM

I think it's just really bad to end up as a regular healthy scratch once your an established NHL player. I think it kind of almost black lists you. Every other team is going what happened there? There must be something wrong with him, on or off the ice. IMO, He's a decent player, but not outstanding enough, or big enough, for most teams to burn the cap on him that he probably wants.


I think the worst thing for his career was signing the length term he did with us. He came, played with Lids and did well, then as soon as Lids left he fell off. Kind of says he's been floating around to so many different teams for a reason and he only did well because of Lids.

#2438024 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 20 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

Either way. It's what I said. I didnt use any quotes, allude to any references, or give any appearance that the thoughts/ideas I stated weren't my own. So why the "source?" comment? Ditch that, already. Super non-relevant and super distracting.

And you're not excited abput Sproul & Ouelette? They are getting a lot of pub and a very good rep.


Didn't say I wasn't excited about them. I'm just excited about Jensen too. They're better right now, but It's not like they're miles ahead of Jensen. Sproul and Ouellet are not un-tradeable, untouchable guys. Great prospects, but in no way does that warrant special treatment. This isn't Yzerman we're talking about.


If you make statements like that without an "IMO" I'll ask for a source every time. Don't really care if you don't like it.

#2437699 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 19 September 2013 - 07:08 PM

Source for sourcing me? Where's your source, #9?

Are you kidding me? Do people really do that here? How annoying.
Im not saying Bert isnt allowed to do it. My point is that agitation ability isnt something we need or utilize. Go to the flyers or play golf with Michael Jordan. We need scoring and size. Bertuzzi lacks both.

Ur statement about Bert not being in the doghouse bc Jensen isn't a top prospect is completely unfounded and frankly bad. First, you have no idea if Bert is in the doghouse or not, or why. and 2nd Jensen is very much a top defensive prospect. He won best defensemen in his league last year for a reason.

#2437590 Cleary re-signs with Detroit, 1 year, $1.75m deal

Posted by number9 on 19 September 2013 - 12:04 PM

I didn't exactly want him back but I think the worst part of the Cleary signing will be listening to everyone here complain about him all year, regardless of how he actually plays. 


I'm guessing the biggest role Cleary fills in the coming season is scapegoat. 

He's getting paid a 3rd line salary and IMO he's a below average 2nd liner, so I can't complain about that. If we didn't have roster issues this would be a great signing.

#2437488 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 18 September 2013 - 04:52 PM

Forza is correct. What, now goons have free reign to beat the s*** out of everyone in camp? I can see it now: Babs - Hey Mantha, our goons are, well, goons and they do goon things like beat the s*** out of people? You ok with getting the snot knocked outta ya? You are? Great! I knew there was a reason we drafted ya!! :P


And btw, Tyler did more than just "chirp and push". He crosschecked the hell out of Jensen`s back, head and arms a few dozen times on top of the rest of the physical and verbal sparring. Were you there to see the entire episode? You ever get crosschecked by a hockey stick? I don`t blame Jensen one bit for drawing a line and showing he wasn`t going to take it anymore.


If you want to get technical, they were both at fault but it was Tyler that harassed Jensen over and over. Why? Dunno. Maybe Jensen beat him on a play and Tyler got embarrassed. Either way, the injury is proof as to why we don`t need it in camp. Of course there will be a little roughhousing but what happens when we draft the "next one" and we let our goons be, well goons, and the great promise of a great career is suddenly halted or even stopped? I`d rather be cautious and prevent any possible injuries in the first place.


Nice strawman.


Do you really think anyone here believes "goons" should have "free reign" at prospect camp? Or were you just exaggerating my argument? I'll assume the later.


Fighting at prospect camp is an obvious negative for the team, and I don't support it. I also don't support dangerous hits, or plays of that nature, that can easily lead to injury at prospect camp. However, I do support chirping and all the other rough stuff at camp.

My point was that Tuzzi is an agitator. That's how he plays hockey. I don't think any coach would ever tell a player, even at prospect camp, "Hey, don't do your job out there. Don't play your style of game. Don't give everything you've got." From what I saw Bertuzzi ran his mouth, played his in your face style, and threw a few cross-checks. All of which are part of the game. He didn't make a dangerous play or even initiate the fight. I think as an "agitating forward" (not a goon) he's well within his right to play as such.


I respect Jensen for not putting up with it, and dropping the gloves to try and give lil bert a spanking, but ultimately the decision to fight was his. You chirp back, match his roughness, beat him on a play, but you don't fight at a prospect camp.

#2437467 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 18 September 2013 - 11:51 AM

It looks like they both have the same logo on their jerseys in the fight clip. Organizationmates, if you will, then.

Maybe Jensen shouldn't have dropped the gloves then eh?

#2437394 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 17 September 2013 - 10:49 PM

I agree with you. There is nothing to be gained from preseason agitation / intrasquad fighting. If a coach needs to see you goad s teammate and then fight him, you're not going to make it. Do you think Kocur or Probert had to beat up Konstantinov so the coaches knew they could fight? They know by now what Bert 2 brings to the table. He should not be instigating his teammates.

You think an 18 year old who's never played higher than the CHL has nothing to prove?


First, he's new to the organization and has to show where he stacks up against our other prospects. Second, Bertuzzi is not big at all by NHL standards and will be expected to: hit, agitate, and fight. Add that to the pressure of being a 2nd round draft choice, and add that to the pressure of the name on his back. I'm sure some among the Wings - and this forum - believe he was only drafted so high because of his uncle, or that it at least influenced the decision. All our prospects have a lot to prove, particularly Bertuzzi.


It's also his job. He agitates. That's what he's good at, and it was made pretty clear by the Wings that that's what they brought him in for and wanted out of him. Did you want him to skate around like a plug and just go through the motions? He's a professional athlete at his first ever NHL prospect camp. He did what he does best, gets under the skin of an opposing defender almost 5 years his senior.


Regardless of whether you thought he was too aggressive, he did not start the fight. He did not attempt to injury anyone. All he did was chirp and push Jensen around. If anything this incident should be demerit on Jensen. He lost his cool under pressure, chose to initiate the fight, and got injured for that choice. Lesson learned: Don't let the Marchand's, Raymonds, Avery's, and Bertuzzi's of the world get to you or your probably going to make dumb decisions on the ice. Like losing your composure and getting a dumb injury for it.


I believe it was Jalen Rose who used to research his opponents personal lives before games so he could chirp them about it and get in their heads. IMO, smack talk is far worse in hockey. If Jensen can't handle the heat he needs to get out of the kitchen.


When it comes down to it, I'm sure the choice words management had for Bertuzzi was that he needs to make peace with Jensen off the ice.

#2437152 Jensen out till December/January after fight with Tyler Bertuzzi

Posted by number9 on 17 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

Was a very heated scrap. Bertuzzi agitated the hell out of Jensen, which obvi led to the fight.

Hard for me to be mad at lil Bert though. His job is to get under opponents skin and scrap from time to time, and he did just that. How can he prove himself he doesn't do what it is that he excels at.

#2436821 Abdelkader

Posted by number9 on 16 September 2013 - 10:19 AM


If the choice is between Abdelkader and Cleary I'll take Abdelkader on the top line.

...You shouldn't have either on your top line

#2436319 Franzen: "I am not a goal scorer"

Posted by number9 on 12 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

Worse long-term deal I have ever seen (besides anyone Garth Snow signs).

... so you haven't seen much I take it?

#2436247 Samuelsson - is there any WAY in hell we can get rid of this guy? whos

Posted by number9 on 12 September 2013 - 02:07 PM


Well it can be a case of accept a trade or don't play. 

for a soon to be 37 yr old who's already won the cup he might not have a problem sitting at home and collecting a check until July. And it'd be a good way to spite the team that signed you and then tried to strong arm you off the team a year later.

Regardless, "accept a trade or don't play" would very much tarnish the red wings reputation as a destination in the eyes of every free agent. Not a very Holland/Wings esque move to say the least.

#2436239 Samuelsson - is there any WAY in hell we can get rid of this guy? whos

Posted by number9 on 12 September 2013 - 01:56 PM

I think one way or another Holland will find a way to get rid of him. 



Agreed.  I'm thinking he's going to have to be a part of a package deal.  Maybe Kenny can even pull off a trade that can actually be beneficial to our team, besides losing Sammy's contract.  That would be too good to be true...



Haha, looks like the only way it's gonna happen is Sammy + a promising prospect for nothing.

Basically bribe a team to take him off our hands.

Did everyone forget he has an NTC? The only way he gets traded is if he WANTS to be traded. And it's probably going to be tough to convince a guy that he wants to be traded off a team that's projected to be competing with the Bruins for dominance in the East and is loaded with his countrymen. And if for some bizarre reason he did decide he wanted to be traded he would basically get to pick the team he wants to play for and Holland would have to bend to that teams will in trade talks.

So no, Samuelsson will not be traded. The only way he'll be "off" this team is if he gets seriously injured and goes on LTIR or we warp through time an it suddenly becomes July 2014.

#2436097 Cleary re-signs with Detroit, 1 year, $1.75m deal

Posted by number9 on 12 September 2013 - 10:43 AM

I have a ton of respect for any player who takes that big of pay cut (and on a short deal) to stay in Detroit.

Say what you will about the roster and cap situation, but Cleary is a one loyal Wing.

#2435027 Buffalo Sabres unveil new third jerseys

Posted by number9 on 04 September 2013 - 07:44 PM


Priceless lol