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Member Since 31 May 2011
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#2610379 Jim Devellano on Mantha's play: "Very disappointing"

Posted by kipwinger on Yesterday, 10:31 AM

In retrospect, I was hard on Devellano in this thread.


This is a man who produced one of the greatest drafts in NHL history in 1983, when he drafted Yzerman, Probert, Kocur, Grimson and Klima.  


There's a lineup I'd go to war with.   ;)  I'm guessing the Wings must have been bullied in 1982.  


Devallano knows what he's talking about.  He was brought in to build a successful franchise and he built the most successful one in the NHL.  People just rail against him because he criticized someone who is popular.  And folks don't like that.  It's not enough that the Wings, or the Griffins, be good.  They have to be good with our favorite players too.  Because if our favorite players turn out to be no good, what does that say about our own judgement?


What's true of Holland in the other thread is true of Devallano here.  Nobody has had as much success with the modern Wings than these guys have had.  More than Bowman.  More than Babcock.  More than Yzerman, or Lidstrom, or everybody else. 


I think 30 years of unparalleled success affords you the right to say whatever the hell you want about a 20 year old prospect. 

#2610368 At what point does the GM deserve credit/blame?

Posted by kipwinger on Yesterday, 08:56 AM

Ken Holland has been with the organization for 30 years.  18 of which he's been the GM.  He started as as scout, then the director of scouting, then the assistant GM, then the co-GM, and then the full GM.  It's not a coincidence that he was hired just prior to the Wings beginning an epic playoff streak. 


To try and dismiss his contributions to the organization as anything less than profound would be an absolutely gross understatement.  He's been more important to this team's success then any other individual. 


If you hire a GM from outside the organization, you can argue he's riding coattails.  But it's a little hard to say that about a guy who's been a member of the Red Wings longer than Steve Yzerman and Nick Lidstrom. 


To a lesser extent, this is true of Stan Bowman as well.  Sure Tallon was the GM before him.  But he started with Chicago in 2001 when they were a garbage team.  Unless he was just standing around playing with himself for 8 years he likely contributed to their assent.  Is he entirely responsible?  No.  But he's contributed from the bottom up. 


Yzerman doesn't deserve much credit for that first conference finals appearance as he had just come in from outside the organization and had been with the team for less than a year.  But he deserves credit for every single other success they've had since. 

#2609780 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 06:01 PM

I'm excited for both the Wings and the Leafs. Honestly, guys...what is with all the Leafs hate? Nobody who claims to love this game would want Detroit's historic rival to languish in the league basement for decades. I personally look forward to Babcock coaching a team that actually is a challenge for the Wings to play.

Because they are in our division. And I don't want anyone else in our division to win...ever.

#2609687 Babcock says good-bye in full page ad. SIAP

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 11:48 AM


I was glad he said that.  I know he said it originally as a joke but the whole thing about "his wife being the boss" irked me.  


Take responsibility for your decision.  Even if it is your wife saying no way in hell I'm going to Buffalo, you still say it was your decision and not put it on her.  


It was the right thing to say considering she didn't want to leave.  Like you said, own your decision.  You wanted to leave Detroit.  Not your wife. 

#2609641 Slava Fetisov: Giant Hypocrite.

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 10:28 AM

Slava Fetisov, former Red Wing defenseman and star of the wildly popular documentary "Red Army", wants Russian law to ban Russian hockey players from coming to the U.S. before their 28th birthday. 


You'll recall Fetisov's story.  He bucked Soviet law preventing him from coming to the U.S. to play hockey, by refusing to play for their national team.  In the documentary he explained how he wanted to be free to make his own decisions, make his own money, and determine his own future, without being coerced by federal authorities. 


And now he's a federal authority.  And he's trying to restrict young players from having those very same liberties. 


Here's a thought Slava.  Rather than using a draconian legal system to force people to stay against their will, how's about you work toward reforming said legal system, and equally restrictive and authoritarian economic policies, so that people will WANT to stay in your s***ty country.  You are, after all, a Senator. 


What a dick.



#2609639 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 10:18 AM

I don't think we need to land a top guy.  We've already got Kronwall.  We just need to upgrade, where possible. 


Look at Tampa Bay's defense.  Yzerman was criticized pretty heavily for wrapping up so much money in non-impact defensemen like Carle, Stralman, Garrison, and Coburn.  None of those guys are really "top guys", but collectively they're better than any other alternative Tampa had.  And they're playing good enough to win. 

#2609626 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 09:16 AM


Not necessarily. I'd agree with you but there wasn't a bidding war from the Leafs side according to Shanny and Babs. The Leafs made the offer before Babcock was heading to Prague. The only one that raised their offer were the Red Wings. If you believe that is of course your choice, but I haven't seen any media piece that says otherwise. What does it tell us ? Well, Babs didn't demand that kind of money and I'm sure he'd still choose the Maple Leafs if we matched that offer or if the Leafs offer wasn't better than our first.


"It all comes down to cash" is a too simple answer.  Decisions are made because of a number of reasons. Money may have played a role, but all the other factors mentioned here in the thread and by Babs were probably more significant. If everything came down to money no one would have blamed Babs if he said so. He could have just sat in the presser and told the media that the Leafs made the best offer money wise. Would you blamed him ? I sure wouldn't. Almost nobody would. Instead he made lengthy explanation that sounds reasonable for a guy like him.


He did say that in the presser.  He said that Toronto made an offer he couldn't refuse.  Every other thing he said would factor into the decision went right out the window when that offer was made. 


He said his family's input would make a difference.  They wanted to stay.  He left.

He said he didn't want to be part of a rebuild.  Toronto is rebuilding.  He signed.

He was concerned about Detroit's future prospects.  Ours are better than Toronto's.  He signed with them.

He said he wants to win.  Went to one of the league's worst franchises.


I'm not even lambasting the guy.  I'd have left for that money too.  I'm just wondering why everybody feels the need to act like this was all about something it wasn't. 


Detroit has a long history of people who have PROVEN that they'd rather win than make the most money.  Not just said it.  Did it.  They've done it over and over and over.  From Holland to all of our star players, each could have made more money if they'd hit the free market.  They chose not to because they liked being here, and so they were willing to take less. 


But Mike Babcock isn't one of those guys.  He's not Nick Lidstom.  He's Sergei Fedorov.  Nothing wrong with Sergei, great Wing, great player, decent guy.  Same with Babs.  But they both chased the money.  Plain and simple. 

#2609612 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 08:35 AM


I'm not so sure about that. Babs stated in his presser that his family as a whole start into a whole new period of life, if he stayed in Detroit or not. I think his main reason indeed was the challenge and what he can archive there.

In Detroit, even if he won two consecutive cups, there were others who have been there. Scotty Bowman have started build these Red Wings, he was merely jumping on board, developing what others have started. He now has the chance to become Torontos Bowman, even more than that. Heck, the last time the Maple Leafs won the cup, my parents were still teenagers and there was only a small hope that the USA might reach the moon till the end of the decade. If he brings it to Toronto he is an immortal legend instead of just the maybe greatest coach between 2000 and 2020.Sure, the money helps, but I don't flatter myself or Red Wings that it is money. It's something greater that we can't offer and I can don't blame him for taking this opportunity. Good luck Babs, you'll need it.


If that were the case then Toronto wouldn't have had to so massively overpay him for the pleasure.  Hell, they could have offered roughly the same money as Detroit and been confident he'd come to Toronto because they could offer him all the "intangible" things Detroit coudn't.  They could have offered him immortality.  Legacy.  Prestige.  Greatness. 


But it wasn't about any of that.  They had to massively outbid everybody because otherwise Babcock wouldn't have gone there.  They didn't give him that money out of the kindness of their hearts, and he didn't ask for it just for s***s and giggles. 


It wasn't about winning, or family, or anything else.  Eventually, as these things often do, it all came down to cash.  Lidstrom stayed with the Wings for less.  So did Datsyuk.  And Zetterberg.  And Kronwall.  Because they wanted to win here.


Babcock didn't. 

#2609605 Dylan Larkin turning pro... will play for GR immediately

Posted by kipwinger on 22 May 2015 - 07:53 AM

I have high hopes for Larkin but to think he is going to make the Wings squad next year is ludacris. He needs to adjust to the AHL for a full season or two. It will be interesting however how he fares against the toughest competition of the AHL off the bat!


Probably fair points, but if he can come in and start learning the NHL game without any hindrance to his long term development, I want him learning from datsyuk and Z as long as he can.

Damn. Always one step ahead.

#2609530 Dylan Larkin turning pro... will play for GR immediately

Posted by kipwinger on 21 May 2015 - 05:24 PM

Lets not judge our next coaches decisions before he is even our coach  :lol:

Saying that Larkin will be a wing is just as silly as saying Pulkkinen will be a center. He won't.

#2609524 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 21 May 2015 - 05:17 PM

Michael GrangeVerified account ‏@michaelgrange
Babcock says he doesn't have an out; says Leafs initially offered hm 10 yrs. He asked for 8, takes him thru age 60.
Ok Kip, you're happy he's gone and you think, just like Buffalo, that he's liar and really only in it for the money...
I think we got it.
...and yes, HSJ really has her work cut out for her now that she can't worship at the altar of Babcock, but do you really think ANY Detroit media is gonna go at him about not re-signing with the Wings?

I don't think he's a liar. I think it was always about the money. And anybody who doesn't think so is a fool. Nothing he did, at any point, was geared toward re singing with the wings. The only way he would have stayed, is if we had offered 50 million, with would have been a dumb oveerpayment.

#2609324 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 May 2015 - 09:54 AM


And what the f*** is my argument again? Are you suggesting that I don't think we should hire Blashill, because it isn't even remotely true.


You seem to be suggesting that everybody should be wary of expecting too much out of Jeff Blashill as head coach.  Because Dave Lewis wasn't a good head coach.  So maybe Blash won't be either. 


If that's not what you're saying, then I have absolutely no idea why you'd bring Lewis up.  Other than to try and make some sort of tenuous comparison which isn't grounded in similarity at all. 


Why did you bring Lewis up again?


Edit:  Nobody expects Blashill to win the Cup next year.  But here's the thing...nobody expected Babcock to win the Cup next year either (had he stayed).  So expectations are EXACTLY the same.  However, given their relatively similar career trajectories, and the fact that Blashill out performed him in all head to head competition, I don't think it would be a stretch to expect him to be as good as Jon Cooper was in his first season as head coach.  Which is a much more realistic comparison than the phony one you keep trying to make with Dave Lewis. 

#2609306 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 May 2015 - 09:04 AM

There is nothing even remotely similar about Jeff Blashill and Dave Lewis.  They both took over for successful coaches.  That's it.  Trying to make a comparison between the two is absurd. 


It's possible that Jeff Blashill will fail.  We all get that.  It's the EXACT same possibility that every coach has in his first year behind the bench in the NHL.  It's the same possibility that Scott Bowman had, Mike Babcock had, Joe Quenneville had.  We get it. 


Blashill has as good, or better, qualifications than any of these guys did prior to their first NHL head coaching gig.  Better than Bylsma.  Better than McLellan.  Better than Cooper, Eakins, Boucher, too. 


And most importantly, better than  Dave Lewis.  


Could he fail?  Sure.  Does the information we have overwhelmingly point toward the opposite outcome?  Absolutely.   

#2609189 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 20 May 2015 - 05:46 PM

Bring in the walrus.

I am the walrus.

I am the walrus.

Shut the f*** up Donny! V. I. Lenin! Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!

#2609037 It's Official: Babcock to coach Maple Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 20 May 2015 - 01:54 PM

Don't sleep on Phil the Thrill.  He may look like a custard filled eclair, but me moves like a god damn antelope.