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kipwinger

Member Since 31 May 2011
Online Last Active Today, 07:36 AM
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#2568334 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:48 PM

Their offense may be down but Toronto is a free wheeling team.

 

Ok?  Why would their free wheelingness be used as an excuse for why Franson scores, but overlooked when it becomes clear that nobody else on their team scores much?  If their freewheeling offense inflates his numbers, why doesn't it inflate anybody else's?

 

I'm not sure why everybody is trying to hard to make the guy out to be worse than he is.  He was a good offensive player with Nashville (a non freewheeling team) and he's a good offensive player with Toronto.  AND, not surprisingly, he's getting better with age. 

 

There are probably some reasons not to like his game, but suggesting he's not good offensively isn't one of them.




#2568329 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:22 PM

Did you consider that maybe franson has more pts cause the leafs defense sucks so he gets a lot of playing time? Power play time? Who else are the leafs gonna put?reilly is just a kid , gardiner is over hyped ... Dion isn't good offensively .. I'm sure if we checked franson's pts came mostly on the ppl and with the kessel line when they were actually scoring

If he was so good why isn't the leafs willing to give him 5-5.5 a year for 5-6 years?

For a rental I'd take him but to have him at that price for that long I'll most definetly pass ... He's not a top pairing dman

 

He plays on their second pair and runs their second power play.  The EXACT same things he'd do here.  I'm not sure what you think he does for them/what you think he'd be doing for us?

 

If I'm following you correctly, you're suggesting that Cody Franson's points MAY be inflated because he gets powerplay time and plays with an offensively gifted player (Kessel).  That's reasonable.  But then it stands to reason that if powerplays and better offense inflate stats, his number would be better in Detroit...since we've got a better powerplay, better team offense, and a (currently) better individual goal scorer than Kessel. 




#2568325 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:16 PM

 

There is more to offence then points. 

 

Ill take Kronwall over Franson on the PP any day. Ill also take Kronwall in my own end to make the first pass 100 percent of the time. 

 

Of course, there is no argument that Kronwall is better than Franson defensively. 

 

Seriously though, when was the last time a player left the wings and didn't increase their point totals? (Brunner ) If Franson comes here you can expect him to lose 20-30% of that point total, just like any other FA in recent history who came here other than Hossa 

 

You're making a few pretty dubious statements here. 

 

Firstly, saying "there's more to offense than points", while true, immediately discounts the MOST IMPORTANT part of offense...points.  Sure there's more, but scoring points is the central part of offense. That's as silly as saying that there's more to defense than stopping points. 

 

Secondly, Filppula, J. Williams, Miller, Brunner, Snyder, Rafalski, and Hudler had their career high point totals in Detroit.  Likewise, neither Bertuzzi or Alfredsson saw their points fall after coming to Detroit from other teams.  Tomas Kopecky saw his production increase on a Stanley Cup team in Chicago (the same point I'm currently making about Franson coming to a better team), but it has since leveled off to the same production he had in Detroit.  Weiss has been hurt so you can't really tell.  The guys I can think of off the top of my head, whose production was worse in Detroit than elsewhere, were Kyle Quincey, Marian Hossa, Brad Stuart, Patrick Eaves, Ville Leino, and Robert Lang.  So I'd say it's a mixed bag...at best. 

 

Thirdly, don't be too excited to reject standard offensive measures (point totals) for "other offensive measures".  Cody Franson has better fancy stats than Kronwall too.  His Corsi and Fenwick are higher than Kronwall's, suggesting that he has a greater influence on his entire team's offense than does Kronwall. 

 

Finally, who cares about Kronwall's defense?  I didn't say Franson was a better player.  I said he's better offensively than all of our defensemen accept Kronwall (but maybe Kronwall too).  Between his points and fancy stats I'd say I"ve made the case that he's close to Kronwall (or slightly above) offensively.


 

Interesting point, look at Quincey's numbers outside of a Wings uniform and with a Wings uniform.  The difference is stark.

 

See above. 




#2568318 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 03:46 PM

Absurd.

 

Rest of the statement I agree

 

 

 

 

edit: My terrible spelling of the word absurd

 

It's not that absurd.  In their first 5 seasons, Kronwall score at .46 points per game, and Franson scored .41 points per game.  That's a difference of 4 points over an 82 game season.  My guess is, that this tiny difference in points can probably be attributed to the relative differences in the quality of the teams they've played for. 

 

Kronwall played on two Stanley Cup finalist teams and 2 other President's trophy winning teams in his first five years. 

 

And Cody Franson played for Nashville and Toronto. 




#2568316 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 03:09 PM

I don't want Franson for close to 7 mil per... I'd rather the better offensive defensemen for 5 with a guarantee that he'll have a few years here

 

Cody Franson isn't going to get 7 million per.  This is exactly the same crap that the media said about Matt Niskanen.  They literally said he'd get 7-7.5 million per.  He didn't.  He got 5.75 million.  If Cody Franson gets 7 million per, I'll donate 500 dollars to a charity of your choice.  If he gets 6 million, I'll donate 100 dollars to a charity of your choice.  If he gets 5.5 million or less, I'll be right. 




#2568313 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 02:53 PM

I want nothing to do with having franson here signed longterm(5-6 yrs) with all our defensive prospects coming ip and the fact that he's not a top pairing dman

If it's not too much I don't care if he's a rental ... Just sucks we already lost our 3rd round pick and mostly our 2nd now ... Too bad they wouldn't want a kindl with a middle of the pack prospect

 

What are the odds that all three of our righty defense prospects are going to be as good as Franson?  So why wouldn't you sign him and just get rid of the worst one of them?  I get that we all like our prospects and that we shouldn't just throw them away, but when we're hanging on to them just for the sake of hanging on to them, it's pretty silly.  Cody Franson is more offensively capable than any defenseman on our team other than Kronwall (though, maybe him too).  He's 27 years old, and still seems to be trending up.  You'd let him walk on the off chance that one of our defense prospects will one day be better than he is?  I'll throw Nick Jensen down a well right now for a righty defenseman who can score 50 pts. 




#2568304 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 02:03 PM

Why go through all that to not be wrong? I just say "I'm right" even when I'm (never) wrong, and that's the end of that!

 

Why do people do the things they do?  I'd sooner try to reach out and touch the moon than understand Frankgrimes' thinking. 




#2568285 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 12:47 PM

I like it because it's kind of a catch all for all the rampant stupidity that dorks like us can find to talk about.  It's like a catch-all for absurdity lest if spill into other areas.  You can't be off topic in a thread that had no meaningful topic to begin with. 




#2568278 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 12:37 PM

I imagine Don Cherry's god in a three piece suit made of material with a stained glass church window pattern on it.

 

I imagine Don Cherry's god spitting on minorities and not winning the Stanley Cup. 




#2568264 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 12:08 PM

Holland is god

 

I'm not expecting Ken Holland to be the creator of all time, space, matter, and energy.  Nor do I expect him to redeem my everlasting soul.  But I'll reserve judgement until all the facts have come to light. 




#2568261 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 12:00 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You two... I see what you're doing here!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Dude, work is a long and lonely time.  You can't expect me to not engage in shenanigans for 8 whole hours. 




#2568253 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 11:45 AM

LOL I've said I'm not expecting much this year and wouldn't have been surprised if they didn't do well. I've also said that I'll reserve judgment till some things are impossible. I know for myself what a joke is and what isn't I don't need you or some of the other "Holland is god and we pump the thread after every win with another 2,5 words posting" telling me about their definition of a joke , thanks. And guess freaking what if they make the playoffs I'll be positively surprised shocking I know..

 

"LOL I've said I'm not expecting much this year and wouldn't have been surprised if they didn't do well. I've also said that I'll reserve judgment till some things are impossible."

 

Translation...

 

Saying "I'm not expecting much" allows me to say "I told you so" if we don't do well in the playoffs.  But saying "I'll reserve judgement" allows me to not be totally wrong if we go ahead and do well in the playoffs.

 

Conclusion...

 

Sitting on the fence, while uncomfortable to look at, still appeals to a particular type. 




#2568251 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 11:38 AM

Why do we need a puck mover when we already have Kronwall and Brendan Smith???

 

Because one offensive defenseman isn't enough?




#2568226 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 10:48 AM

 

Agreed that Prust hits him in the side. But Myers doesn't see him coming. And not because Myers is the worst player ever. And, like I said, the only reason it wasn't in the head is because Myers is basically Slender Man.

 

I wasn't using the video to illustrate that A) Myers is the worst, or B) that Prust isn't dirty.  I was using in response to Dabura's "statement"...um...statement.  I'm not exactly sure how it's a "statement" to get dominated by dudes a tenth your size for two periods, and then finally act like a big boy in the third after you've given up two goals and been beaten like a mule.

 

If I wanted to prove Myers was the worst, I'd direct you to his Jonathan Ericsson like numbers or his league worst corsi.  If I wanted to prove that Brandon Prust wasn't dirty, I'd be stupid. 




#2568219 All Purpose Grand Rapids Griffins Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 10:31 AM

Andreas Athanasiou to be back in a week, per Blashill.

 

http://kuklaskorner....eat-skate-notes