Lots of teams win lots of Cups without Shea Weber...like all of the them. So why give up that much to get him when the reality is hit cap hit is so prohibitive you team will never win as long as he's on it. How many times do teams have to sign Webers, and Ovechkins, and Lecavaliers, and Kovalchuks to HUGE contracts with no success afterward before people realize it's their contracts which are the problem.
True, I was a bit hard on the guy, but its not like a hockey forum is a place for careful critical thinking and rational arguments. You sir are a gentleman and scholar while I was... less so. Still, Smith is the last player I am pinning my hopes on for this team.
I completely agree, and my views on Smith are pretty well established. But I do recognize that a guy can develop late...particularly in our system. I was one of the "f*ck Ericsson" folks a couple years ago and I had to eat crow on that. So I have to at least consider the possibility that Smith could do the same, as much as I hate his stupid face.
"But, but, but Holland is a terrible GM and we didn't need Legwand and needed better defence." - half the people on the board last week.
We do need better defense. And having one NHL caliber centerman (who isn't Crosby or Stamkos) and a bunch of kids, is not noticeably better than having a bunch of kids and no NHL caliber centers. With or without Legwand, unless some key guys get healthy quick we're not making the playoffs.
Which is why I'd rather have kept the assets and risked ending the streak...or...spent the assets on a defenseman who was signed for more than this season. But that's just me. I stand behind my objection to the terms of the trade.
Yeah because the trade didn't finish and submit to the league within 1 minute of the dead line.
At base case scenario he becomes as good as Legwand is now? Yeah we really lost that one.
No I'm judging him because he didn't perform at the world cup and was a 4th line player. You know that thing were all great NHL players performed well at? That's where you get a look at your players for the first time and how they compete with and against other highly praised NHL prospects. That's where Jarnkrok lost value and its for good reason.
He didn't perform well in 19 games in the World Championships (which is made up of junior players) but did perform well in more than 19 games in the AHL (made up of professionals). I'm not sure what your point is here? That a couple years ago, in a small sub-sample, he didn't perform well? Agreed. But it's equally true that he's now playing much better hockey in a much more difficult league.
Any value he lost (not sure he did), he regained by being a stud over his last 36 games with the Griffins.
Every time I think Kindl has changed his game, he reverts to cowering from a hit and blindly getting rid of the puck. Which is especially frustrating given he is 6'3" and 216 lbs. Kindl is bigger than everyone on the Red Wings blueline except Ericsson.
But the bad decision making is hopefully correctable. It's about learning to be consistent for a whole game and not making a terrible decision when you're tired or trying to do too much.
Hard to argue with you. I was obviously always more of a Kindl guy, but he's been sitting and it hasn't really hurt us so I really can't say I've got strong feelings either way anymore. I'm not particularly happy with either, but I suppose a s***ty defenseman, who scores occasionally, and punches someone once in a while is better than a s***ty defenseman, who scores occasionally, and doesn't.
To be honest I think both of them would be drastically better if they were on different teams. Like every other position, Babs requires his players be good both ways, and neither of these guys seem up to it (so far). On a team where they could just do all offense, all the time, both would at least excel in that regard. Seems like Babs would rather not have the offense if it means being bad defensively, while others might rather accept the bad defense in favor of more offense. On a team where they were turned loose they'd produce more, but their defensive development would essentially end right where it is now.
Haha, there are soooo many smart ass things I want to say right now. Instead I'll try to be productive. Move Abby back to center for the time being and call up Pulkkinen or Callahan. Other option is to finally give Ferraro a ticket to the big show.
The question with Smith-Kindl as well, isn't talent. it is between the ears. But and always keep this in mind: D take longer to develop. Always has been the case. Why? Who knows, but they do.
I actually think with Kindl it's about guts, and with Smith it's about smarts. Kindl won't take a hit to make a good pass...Smith WILL take the hit AND THEN turn around and make the bad pass. It's hard to gauge what's worse, a coward or an idiot.
WTH are you talking about? He's a rookie for crying out loud. Nevermind, you must not watch hockey much.
I think you need to temper that a bit. I agree that he's a rookie and therefore it's premature to throw in the towel on him...but...lots of other rookies (Lashoff and Dekeyser for instance) manage to go game to game without being noticeably terrible at protecting the puck or maintaining zone coverages. Smith is bad at both...even for a rookie.
The guy you were responding to is wrong for thinking that Smith's deficiencies doom him to a awful career, likewise you're wrong for insinuating that his being a rookie excuses him from having to play responsible defense.
Because maybe he's not ? He will most likely be a 40-60 point 2nd line center.
Doubt Nashville went for a defensemen seeing as there main area of concern is scoring ... Defensemen wise there more than fine
I won't pay attention to Hollands comments obviously he's gonna make it sound like we didn't give up much .... You think people would be happy if he said we think jarnkrok is gonna be a big time player in this
League but we needed immediate help now due to pav being out as well as helm and hank .... People would of been pissed off
Tis way it's like we gave up some chump bottom 6 guy and people are like ya cool whatever then
I don't know how any of you could possibly know what type of player he's going to be one way or another. People used to have the same arguments about Tatar and Nyquist, and before that Filppula and Hudler. Fact is, you just don't know this early in his career what type of player he's going to be.
Secondly, it's entirely possible that he could be BOTH a big time player in the NHL as one of you suggested and a 40-60 pt. player as the other suggested. If Jarnkrok was scoring 25-30 goals a season and another 25-30 assists PLUS good defense wouldn't that make him a "big time player"?
Stop arguing, neither of you know what he'll turn into and truthfully you're both pretty close to each other when you decide to speculate what he'll be.
Truth is, we traded long term potential for short term gain. Apparently Holland believed it was preferable to lose the potential of a top flight center (Jarnkrok's upside) for a chance to sneak into the playoffs this year. Personally, I think it's a bad decision but you're welcome to disagree. But to try and make it seem like Jarnkrok was a B prospect, or that Legwand is a horrible trade (or a savior of one), is both incorrect and intellectually beneath each of you.
Ugh, I'm having such a hard time right now. I REALLY don't want to join the ranks of cynical hater, but I also don't want to sit here and say "it's just the injuries". It is the injuries, plus the fact that all of our current best players are guys who our coach and/or GM didn't even envision on the team 8 months ago.
Was there nobody competent on the powerplay available at the trade deadline? And by competent I mean, was there nobody willing to put even a single shot on goal during the powerplay available at the trade deadline?