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Member Since 31 May 2011
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#2539224 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by kipwinger on 09 October 2014 - 09:26 AM

On the plus side, this might be the biggest group of forwards we've played in a while. A pretty decent mix of size to go with the smaller, faster skilled guys.









Half of the forwards at least  6'1"/200 lbs.


I know Franzen and Andersson aren't overly physical, but as a Wings fan, I'll take what I can get.


I don't think "being physical" matters at much as people tend to think.  Many fans (around the league) think if you're big and you're not playing like Backes or Lucic then you're "easy to play against".  Which is likely not true.  Obviously its harder to play against guys like that, but it's probably no walk in the park trying to body up Franzen for 60 minutes.  No matter how "physical" he is (or isn't), he's still 225 lbs. of forward that you've got to try and contain for an entire game. 


So in short, I agree lol. 

#2539204 10/9 GDT : Bruins 1 at Red Wings 2.

Posted by kipwinger on 09 October 2014 - 08:17 AM

It's the most, wonderful time...of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#2539145 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 08:31 PM

Don't worry guys, Babs has a PhD from McGill in sports psychology. 


He's got this.

#2539103 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 03:02 PM

1. You claimed that Z's production "fell into the floor" with Abby - I showed that he was having one of his best years. Who cares you ask? yes who cares about facts? you take issue with "on pace.", but that's not really what we were talking about - it's the time he played with Abby his production didn't fall into the floor. To be clear, I don't think Abby should by in the top 6, but your claim was off.


2. I also would prefer  "to actually have a top line winger" ,but Mantha's injured, Alfie's uncertian. I think Helm's a good option with what we've got. Certainly better than Abby. Not sure why you took exception with my use of the word prefer, haha. Every opinion or claim is a preference. Also, your "this is a business we shouldn't just 'give things a try'" seems weird to me. Coaches "give things a try" all the time - every time they switch lines... Bowman gave Federov a try on defense. Chara was given a try in front of the net on the PP. We are currently trying out the 1-3-1 formation. Maybe I should have used more serious wording.


3. I meant if we got Stafford as a UFA next year he would be a road block and I meant it more for Mantha - I listed Nestrasil because he would probably be pushed off the team, but I agree with you that Nestrasil shouldn't really be a consideration. If he were here for just this year he would only really be a road block to Alfie's return which I think most would be fine with. Could be a good move if the price wasn't too much.


Anyway, I don't think we really disagree about much here. 


I agree.  We're in the same ballpark.


I didn't take exception to your use of "preference".  I bolded it so that you'd know what I was responding to in my second comment.  No problem with you preferring things.


Zetterberg's production last season wasn't going to last, regardless of his pace.  But you're right, it's probably a stretch for me to say that his production falls through the floor with Abby.  Having said that, it's not unreasonable to think that he (and Datsyuk) would see an increase in production should they play alongside a winger who can pass and shoot better than Helm, Abby (or Bert before them).


Again, I don't know that Stafford is the answer and don't want to make it about him in particular.  I was just pointing out that if you want an "Abby with hands" go get one.  They exist, and are available. 


Finally, I don't have a problem with teams trying things.  I have a problem with not having any other options, and "trying" weird s*** becomes your only hope.  Bowman "tried Fedorov on defense" when he had one of the greatest teams ever assembled.  Julien "tried" Chara in front of the net while coaching one of the best teams in the league and having a ready replacement on the powerplay point in Torey Krug.  We're "trying" Helm on the first line wing because we've got too many centers and not enough wingers, and our GM isn't willing to part ways with one to get the other.  Think about it, each year Z and D start out together and the last four guys to play on the other wing were Cleary, Bert, Abby, and now Helm.  We've needed a real winger for years.


Babs' isn't doing it because he's got too many options, he's doing it because he doesn't have enough.

#2539074 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 01:00 PM

Well, Zetterberg was on pace to have one of his best years before his injury so I don't know about your comment their production "falling to the floor."


Abby on the top line is a hangover from the success of Homer there. it hasn't worked with Abby - hopefully Babcock sees that. But Helm is a different player and has yet to play on the top line. You pretty much quoted earlier comments to you the Helm so I feel i need to respond to the "hoodMy winked" and "monkeys nodding their agreement" comments. It's a very different thing to think trying Helm on the first line is worth a try then mindlessly agreeing with the organization. My preference would be Mantha on that top line, but he's injured. Jurco would be good in that spot, but I really like the T-S-J line and I'd prefer to to keep them together. 


Stafford's would be a rental this year with one year left in his contract. I'd be for it if we traded Cleary and Andersson to have him for this year. If Stafford's a worthy pick up he's a UFA next year. Having Stafford would put up a road block for Mantha, Nestrasil. 


1.  Zetterberg's on pace to have a good season every year (almost).  Who cares?  Last year Alexander Steen was on pace to outscore Ovechkin for about 20 games.  On pace really doesn't mean s***. 


2.  Prefer whatever you want.  I'd prefer to actually have a top line winger (and not a third line center) on the top line.  Also, as I've said a couple times already:  Sure putting Helm on the first line "is worth a try".  But this is a professional hockey team, running a business.  If they don't have a better strategy for success than "it's worth a try", we're in trouble. 


3.  If Stafford is a rental he can't block anybody long term.  Short term he wouldn't block anybody on the current roster because you'd have to trade to get him.  One in, one out.  Also, you could just waive any of Andersson, Glendening, or Cleary as well.  Nothing about acquiring one guy would block those two.  However, my point was mostly that he's been available for as long as we've been trying this stupid "bottom six grinder" to top line winger experiment. 


4.  Lets not go anointing Nestrasil some kind of up and comer just yet.  He's (so far) yet to show he can even play consistently in the AHL, let alone the NHL .  He had a good camp which is good.  But if you're reluctant to take on a proven NHL player like Stafford because you aren't sure how that affects a guy like Nestrasil, then you've got some pretty funny priorities. 



Look, all I'm saying is that if you need a top line winger...go get a top line winger (or promote one).  Abby and Helm are bottom six players.  No amount of line adjusting changes their skill set.  If you want a top line winger who's biggish, physically tough, and can score ok...go get a guy like Stafford.  If you want a guy who's fast, defensively responsible, and can score a little...go get Vrbata. 


If you want bottom six grinders who are defensively responsible and chip in middling offense...go get Abby or Helm. 


The organization is trying to turn them into something they aren't, and it's detrimental to the team.

#2539025 Kindl on the block

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 10:03 AM

There are a lot of teams in the bottom half of the league with a ton of cap space that I think could possibly be interested. I may be naïve or hopeful, but I think Kindl would be an upgrade to a lot of teams bottom pairings around the league. He isn't a terrible defenseman and a change of scenery may be just what he needs. If we can get a late round draft pick for him and get Ouellet in the lineup, I'd be happy.



I think he'd be fine on a team that let him be offensive all the way.  He can skate and shoot.  He's just no good in Babs' system because Babs' doesn't want offense out of his defense...he wants a very particular type of offense (the kind Kronwall, Lids, and Rafalski provided).  That's why Kindl struggles, and that's why Smith often struggles. 


If he played a wide open, run and gun, style of hockey I'd take Kindl.  Someone like Tampa or Carolina would treat him well. 

#2539021 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 09:25 AM


Come on Kip. Those guys are all good for 40 goals.


Between the 5 of them.


If things go well.




Honestly, the part that irritates me isn't that they're playing.  They've all got some value (if used correctly).  What gets my goat is the the organization has everyone around here so hoodwinked that they actually buy it when Abby gets put on the top line and we hear "Dats wants Abby to pull the piano".  Or "Helms speed will be killer on the forecheck".  All us monkeys nod our heads in agreement and then wonder why Dats and Z's production falls to the floor. 


Want a guy who can "pull the piano" AND produce in top six?  The Sabres have been trying to trade Drew Stafford for two years.  He's not a superstar but he's WAY better than Abdelkader. 


Want a guy who can use speed on the forecheck and produce in the top six?  You've got at least two of them toiling away on your third line (Tatar and Jurco).  Or you could have signed someone like Radim Vrbata (a possession monster) who consistently produces offense while being defensively responsible. 


Nope, Helm and Abby.  That's the way to the promised land.  Ugh. 

#2539018 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

I'm not fine with any professional hockey team that realistically plans to use all of Abdelkader, Helm, Miller, Glendening, and Andersson.  Nevermind Nestrasil, he'll be gone in a week or two. 


Three...maaaaaaybe four of those guys could play on my team.  But not all of them.  We've got mediocre talent eating up a lot of roster spots and minutes.  Until we don't, this team will stay mediocre. 


"But...but...but...Kip, Mike Babcock says Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader are too good to be on the fourth line". 


So what?


Kris Draper won the Selke, scored more than either of them, and played on the fourth line for most of his career. 


Ice a real roster or lose games.  It's pretty simple. 

#2539014 23 man roster set... say hi to your 2014/15 Wings

Posted by kipwinger on 08 October 2014 - 08:38 AM

Frustrating but expected. The Babs v. Holland on XO surprises me. I'm generally annoyed at the "overripe" theory still winning. I think it's outdated. Give these kids their shot. Nyquist and Tatar were in GR last year and now we're counting on them to carry the load this season!


Tatar did not play one single second in the AHL last year. 

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#2538976 Callahan, Ferraro and Porter placed on Waivers

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 09:57 PM


That's another honorable thing he doesn't also I'm not talking about jumping Scuderi (that's too dangerous) but he could have told him, hey we've gotta have a go here. Also Thornton is not my boy I'm just a fan of the way he has handled himself for so long and he contributed wheter people like to admit it or not.


As for James Neal at some point someone is going to make him pay, he got away with that stupid stuff for way too long.





Happy for Callahan.


Dude, you're must making s*** up now.  You're now saying "I'm not talking about jumping Scuderi", but in your earlier post you said "I don't think he would have asked Scuderi if he wanted to go or not, Scuderi's only choice would have been defend yourself or else". 


Just stop already.  Your position on fighters is tenuous, at best, and it's made much worse when you say contradictory things and act like we're all too stupid to notice.  You absolutely WERE talking about jumping Scuderi, you're just changing your tune now because you realize it was a dumb thing to say in the first place. 

#2538875 Krys Barch unloads his frustrations

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 04:20 PM

It's all a moot point anyway...No way in hell does Babcock dress anyone of the likes of a Tootoo, or an Orr.

Is that what I said?


PK is only a part of the game...4th liners take to ice outside of that...Try not putting words in my mouth.


Oh, enforcers are better at some other part of the game than our fourth line?  What's that?  Fighting? 


Well that doesn't sound like circular logic at all does it?  We should sign a fighter because they're better at fighting than non-fighters.  Smart. 


Unless you weren't talking about fighting.  Which part of the game are enforcers better at again?  Taking penalties?


If the mass waiving of goons like Orr and McLaren this offseason wasn't already an indication that having enforcers no your roster is retarded, wait until the end of the season and see how Calgary did with their enforcer fourth line.  We already know it will give Krys Barch a boner, but outside of that I suspect that the team will stink and the line itself will be putrid statistically. 


But here's the kicker.  That's what Burke wants.  He want a s***ty team so he can draft McDavid.  And while his team is s***ty, he'd like to sell some tickets, so he goons it up.  This isn't a strategy to be a good team.  It's a marketing ploy to be a bad team but still excite dummies like Krys Barch.  Apparently it worked. 

#2538867 Krys Barch unloads his frustrations

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 04:09 PM

Well - being 12th in the league while on the pk is respectable...I'll give you that.


So being worse is preferable?  It seems like you're arguing that because we weren't great at something last year, we shouldn't care about it, and make it even worse by adding a fighter.  Smart. 

#2538863 Krys Barch unloads his frustrations

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 04:00 PM

I'm sure Drew Miller would prefer to play against Krys Barch 82 games a year too.  Who wouldn't want to line up across from a guy who can barely skate and only has a rudimentary understanding of how to actually play the game of hockey? 

So...How about the other 2 guys that make up the 4th line...They kill penalty's too?


Glendening and Andersson?  Yes, yes they do. 

#2538790 Callahan, Ferraro and Porter placed on Waivers

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 01:45 PM


The problem with that is simple: Hartnell is tough but he doesn't strike fear into another guy McGrattan on the other hand does. I don't think he would have asked Scuderi if he wanted to go or not, Scuderi's only choice would have been defend yourself or else...The Penguins don't really have an enforcer they have Bortuzzo big tough kid but I wouldn't call him an enforcer.


Still not happy seeing Callahan waived.



That's not the case at all.  Find me one single time in which McGrattan just attacked a guy for a clean hit.  Also, why (in your fantasy scenario) is McGrattan on the ice with Datsyuk in the first place?  McGrattan, like most heavy weight enforcers, only fights other heavy weight enforcers.  So no, he wouldn't have jumped Scuderi.  And even if he had, he'd have just got a suspension for it the way your boy Shawn Thornton did when he mugged Brooks Orpik for a clean hit.  Exactly what did that solve?  Certainly didn't "keep the Pens honest" as James Neal kneed Marchand in the head half a period later. 

#2538778 Datsyuk to play Thursday? Weiss to be a healthy scratch?

Posted by kipwinger on 07 October 2014 - 01:35 PM

He can also be our enforcer...



And McGrattan (or whatever talentless meathead you like) can be our goal scorer.