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Member Since 31 May 2011
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#2560881 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 12:20 PM

There are no conspiracies against the Red Wings.  Period.  And even if there were, our record over the last 20 years indicates that they're the least effective conspiracies ever.  So why worry about them?

#2560866 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 11:00 AM

Yeah, but it didn't necessarily need to be Cleary. We would have had an extra roster spot by sending Jurco down. I would have had Callahan on our forth line, Cleary getting in scattered games as he is now and Jurco and Pulkkinen dominating the American League.


Well you and I certainly both agree on how awesome it would be if Callahan were on our fourth.  Glendening and Callahan would be awesome together. 

#2560861 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 10:51 AM

No surprise here. Probably Caryle should have competed harder.




They actually might do just that :


Well hopefully they send Franson and/or Van Reimsdyk this way lol. 

#2560842 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 10:10 AM

Bylsma is the right guy for that job.  It's a team built for offense, and he's won a Cup with a team built for offense.  If they get a guy like Babs they're going to have to spend the next three seasons (or so) trying to restructure the roster. 

#2560839 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 10:07 AM

Lol f*** You Kip... Smith is awesome...


But in all seriousness, Smith is better than Ouellet right now, and I'm not so sure Ouellet will be better in the future. The sample size is way too small at this point. It is very possible, but we all know that better prospects have played better than Ouellet for a handful of games and then fell off. I find it very difficult to believe that Ouellet would garner more interest than Smith. Possible but doubtful in my opinion...


Babcock doesn't think Smith is better.  Which is why he keeps giving Ouellet more minutes.  Smith is yesterday's news.  He'll be the new Kindl once the old Kindl is thrown on the heap. 

#2560834 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 10:02 AM

I agree that Jurco will be fine, however I do think another season down in Grand Rapids would have been better for his development. I also don't think Nyquist or Tatar would be the players they are today if they were full time NHLers at 21 years old, without putting in their time in Grand Rapids. Jurco was basically thrown into the NHL after just one season in the minors whereas Tatar and Nyquist spent 3-4 years down there. It's just not the way we usually handle our prospects in Detroit, and I personally prefer the slow approach. And yes we were forced to have him up last season due to injuries but he didn't need to start this season up in the NHL.


That may be true.  I certainly won't argue, as Holland's approach to prospect development has worked excellently in the past.  But it should be noted that prior to the season opener Babcock said he wanted Jurco on the team, and he has consistently praised his play.  So this is a case where Holland is screwed either way.  If he doesn't leave Jurco on the big club, then everyone complains that this is just like when he left Nyquist (and now Ouellet) down despite Babcock's wishes.  If he does bring him up then he doesn't get the development that he probably ought to. 


Also, as an aside, it also means that Cleary would likely have played more.  Which everyone would crucify Holland for as well. 


So I'm not going to get too bent out of shape for it either way. 

#2560821 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 09:47 AM

Jesus, please let Babcock go to Toronto.  Then he can put Kessel on the fourth line, Phaneuf can play 27 minutes a night because he's "heavy", and a their shutdown line of Bozak-Pannik-Clarkson will be an example to the league on how to suppress shots.  All associated with MLSE, the Toronto Press, and Maple Leafs nation will back slap themselves silly and marvel at Babcock's genius.


They will lose every other game 2-1, of course. 

#2560815 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 09:40 AM


For sure. Or downgrade that pick to a 2nd rounder.


I was just spit-balling based on krsmith17's trade package. He asked, I speculated.


I know.  I'm basically just baiting him because I know how much he loves Smith.  Sorry to involve you in my Machiavellian scheming. 


And sorry to you krsmith17, it's just too fun screwing with you about Riley's brother. 

#2560808 Randy Carlyle relieved of his duties by Leafs

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 09:25 AM

In the final analysis, Carlyle just couldn't make the toast in Toronto. 

#2560806 Time for Teemu?

Posted by kipwinger on 06 January 2015 - 09:22 AM

I couldn't agree more Jesusberg. We've been on the same page in regards to how Jurco should have been managed, since before the season started. He could still use some more time in the minors and I honestly think if he spent as much time as Nyquist and Tatar down on the farm, he would have turned out to be the most talented among the three... now I'm not so sure... I love Jurco and I do believe he can still be a threat within a few years but I had extremely high expectations for him. Let's hope, this rare prospect mismanagement doesn't bite us in the ass. There really is something to be said for the way the Wings usually manage their prospects.


I also agree with zombo. I love Pulkkinen and he is doing great down in Grand Rapids, I'm sure he will get a call-up at some point this season, but there is no need to make a trade, just to get him up here now... Especially if it would involve trading away one of our young up and coming kids. Makes zero sense.


Jurco will still be fine.  He's 21.  By 24 he'll be doing what Abdelkader is doing now.  By 27 he'll be around 50-60 pts. a year...and physical.  Everything we hoped Franzen would turn out to be.  Jurco is a big kid, but always played a skilled game.  He's basically learning how to be a power forward, but learning in the NHL rather than Juniors or AHL.  It's a steep learning curve.  Abby had the same one. 


Jurco is already an excellent passer, once he learns how to score in tight, his production will explode. 

#2560765 1/3 GDT : Red Wings 1 at Canucks 4

Posted by kipwinger on 05 January 2015 - 10:13 PM

Babcock on Weiss:  http://www.mlive.com...co_playing.html


Babcock said Weiss has been fine, but he must take someone else's minutes.

"I think he's battling real hard, now he has to take someone's job," Babcock said. "That's how it is."



Unreal.  We're playing like garbage, we can't score, and Weiss has to earn more than ten minutes a game?  I don't remember Abdelkader having to earn back his ice time after his shoulder injury (the same exact one as Weiss had, but which kept him out longer).  Babcock is such af****** tool.


At least Khan finally asked though.  I like to think it's because of TheGlistening's friendly prodding lol. 

#2560741 1/3 GDT : Red Wings 1 at Canucks 4

Posted by kipwinger on 05 January 2015 - 06:32 PM

You know what's extra annoying?  This video where Babcock talks about Weiss and extolls him to "score, score, score" in order to help the team.  So then Weiss does.  And then Babs benches him. 


#2560730 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 January 2015 - 04:23 PM

If I was Ken Holland I'd call her office right now and ask "what the f*** Helene"?  Why would you speculate about a players' trade value, and fuel subsequent rumors, while he's playing the best hockey of anyone on the team? 


I've always thought Helene St. James was stupid.  But this is seriously next level stupidity.  It's like if stupidity went super saiyan. 

#2560720 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 January 2015 - 02:03 PM

I think with forwards too. The 2010 team had a lot of injuries, but Dats and Z were better. Franzen was the better version then. This team doesn't have anything that matches Homer, especially on the PP. Flip was having a good year. Bertuzzi was still a threat. Cleary was still a solid 20 goal 40 point guy.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but with the current roster once you get past Dats, Z, Franzen, Nyquist and Tatar, goal scoring ability drops off significantly. Maybe Abby this year.


I take projections with a grain of salt, but based on their current levels of production we can "expect" the following:


25-30 goals:  Tatar, Nyquist, Datsyuk

18-20 goals:  Zetterberg, Abdelkader

15 goals:  Helm, Sheahan, Franzen, (maybe) Weiss. 

10 goals:  Kronwall


I agree with you about the vast difference in the quality of our defense, but it's really not hard to see why Babs would feel that way about the forwards (at least).  If you look at it like its listed above, you've essentially got a first line full of 30 goal scorers, a second line full of 20 goal scorer, a third line full of 15 goal scorers, and a shutdown fourth line. 

#2560718 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 January 2015 - 01:39 PM


Well in a perfect world I would have prefered Nill - Babcock or even better Yzerman - Babcock and Holland as VP of hockey operations but that's not gonna happen for at least another 4 years. Personally I think the decision according Babcock has already been made otherwise he would have long been said, so the question for me is whom to I want as a replacement.


Blashill ? Great success in the AHL but remember Eakins

Bylsma ? His offensive style is not the right approach for this team

Tortarella ? Hell no

Julien ? If the Bruins fire him ...interesting choice but the Wings are way too soft for his style of play

Hitchcock ? Has the Blues playing a very tight defensive system behind a comparable goalie but their defense is much better...Pietrangelo is easily a top 5 defender but he should do better than all the aforementioned coaches

Hartley ? Loves hard work, is a no BS kind of guy although the makeup of the team would have to change


Other than that there really aren't much choices for the Wings so would I prefer Babs staying ? Of course but I don't think it will happen.


Jeff Blashill and Dallas Eakins' situations are NOTHING alike.  This isn't the first time you've used Eakins' tragicomedy as a justification for why Blashill might not be the right choice for Detroit and you couldn't be more wrong. 


1.  Jeff Blashill is a MUCH better coach than Dallas Eakins was in the AHL.  His record and accomplishments speak for themselves.  Something Eakins cannot say. 


2.  You're falsely making it seem like Eakins' wasn't successful in Edmonton because he wasn't an established NHL coach and was coming from the AHL.  That, in short, is bulls***.  Many coaches, with much greater experience, have sucked worse at coaching the Oilers.  Eakins' actually had a better record coaching the Oilers than Pat Quinn did. 


3.  The Red Wings are not the Oilers.  A team led by disciplined, decorated, and accountable veterans intermixed with some up and coming young players who have learned how to play the game right and were developed correctly is NOTHING like a team full of young, entitled, first rounders with zero development and no accountability. 



Overall, I actually agree with your general point.  No sense letting Babcock go if there isn't a better option.  I agree 100%.  And it's up to Ken Holland and co. to determine whether there are better options.  But please stop using Dallas Eakins and the Edmonton Oilers as some kind of cautionary tale.  Literally the only thing that Eakins and Blashill have in common is that they both coached in the AHL.  Aside from that, they're apples to oranges. 

I don't remember him saying that but there's no way this team has more people who can score since 2009. The 2010 versions of Dats, Z, Rafalski, Lids, Homer, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Flip, Kronwall and Franzen alone beats this lineup.

Even if the forwards in 2010 and now were equal, Lidstrom and Rafalski blow away anyone we have on the blueline right now.


He did.  Right here.  I linked you to this a couple weeks ago.  Clearly you and Uncle Mike have very different opinions on the offensive potential of this team.