Jump to content

kipwinger's Photo


Member Since 31 May 2011
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 07:49 PM

#2568625 So, Evander Kane...

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 08:48 PM

Oh Evander...







Who would have thought that the guy seen above would have problems with maturity? I'm not buying the tracksuit in the shower story until he posts a pic of a wet tracksuit with at least 3 stacks on it. 


Followed immediately by an Instagram of Byfuglien shoving those same stacks up his ass?

#2568614 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 07:44 PM


Middle of the pack? Frk and Ehn? Explain that one.


Gotta agree.  Strange group of players there.  Jensen is at the top of the pack (in that he's going to be in the NHL one day and is close right now), Ehn and Turgeon I'd say are in the middle (just because they haven't had a chance to succeed OR fail yet), and Frk is about as bottom of the pack as you can get (slightly above Mike McKee, but still bottom bottom bottom). 


Which sucks, because I always thought Frk would make it.  Soooo wrong about that one. 

#2568588 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 05:49 PM

a hell no to letting any of those go ... Maybe pulkkinen in a big trade for say a larsson .. Wouldn't give ip on ouellet
Well that's a specific contract , I'll say the the ones deserving of big money and long contracts are the obvious ones doughty pietrangelo Keith Subban karlsson etc..
Mike richards? The one thing toronto is in serious need of is leadership .. Is richards severely over paid? Hell yes but Phaneuf keeps getting absurd by the media and picked on all the time by nhl players so much so it's become a joke

Maybe a richards + pick or mid prospect for Phaneuf I don't know ... I do know any deals involving those 2 would be done in the off season and not trade deadline
No thanks ... And I don't think holland is interested in giving up a first round pick ... I know they say this allot but I do believe it's a deep draft and we already don't have our 3rd rounder

I suppose that's why we differ. I don't consider 5.5 million a year "big money". Premier defensemen make quite a lot more than that.

#2568511 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 02:04 PM

Well apparently not all 30 teams cause toronto are stupid and I want to let him go ... Seriously though would a lot of teams want franson? Maybe but there's a salary cap now that everyone has to work with so you just can't throw money at whoever without thinking about it

Wisniewski comparison is he's another player everyone wanted here as you just said and I think is over priced and went to a team that no one wants to go to and can only attract free agents by over paying them(which is what I predict what will happen) say a Edmonton or whomever

As I've said before if we get him as a rental at the deadline ... Good .... I'm just not willing to give him 5-5.5 per year for 5-6 yrs ... I don't think he's done nearly enough to warrant that money
He plays with columbus ... Who exactly are they gonna give all the ice time to? There's a reason why top teams didn't give him all that money



What defenseman, in your opinion, is worth a 5 year 5.5 million dollar contract?  I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from here.

#2568503 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 01:37 PM

Different situations All those teams you mentioned did it in order to keep star players

Kane toews Keith hossa

Chara bergeron rask krejci

Zetterberg datsyuk lidstrom (unfortunetly Franzen over hossa)

Leafs have what kessel? Maybe van riemsdyk? Who else do they have that they aren't willing to part with that make big money to keep a key piece?

If he was really as valuable as you claim he is they wouldn't just let him go, they do everything and anything to keep him ... Everyone knows they will have to buy out clarkson , a chunk of his money would go to franson, they could trade a bozak or lupul ... Whomever

They don't have star studded guys like the teams you mentioned who they would never consider trading

Yes the leafs were poorly run for along time but do we really think shanahan is an idiot ? I'm convinced he's doing everything to give he leafs the best chances to get Connor mcdavid by hiring these idiots to coach the team , so if Phil kessel got dealt at the deadline it wouldn't surprise me

Anyways back to franson ... We'll just have to wait and see what happens


Here's a quick breakdown of Toronto's salary structures.  They already committed prime time money to crappy players.  Which is why they can't afford to keep Frason. 


Toronto is paying Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, and Clarkson more than Chicago gave to Toews, Kane, Keith, and Hossa on their last deals (the ones they cleared Ladd et. al. to keep). They're paying them more than we paid Lids, Z, Dats, Franzen when we lost Hossa.  They're paying them nearly as much as Chara, Bergeron, Kreci, and Rask. 


Kessel:  8 million cap hit

Phaneuf:  7 million cap hit

Lupul 5.2 million cap hit

Clarkson:  5.2 million

Van Reimsdyk:  4.2 million

Bozak:  4.2

Gardiner:  4

Robidas:  3

Komorov:  2.9

Kadri: 2.9

Bernier:  2.9

Polak:  2.7

Reimer:  2.3



#2568500 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 01:29 PM

They never said Babcock is coming ...babcocks is there first choice as a new coach ... Do you blame them?

And they always end up going to teams that have a had time attracting free agents ... Wonder why


Ok, let's be more systematic about this.  What holes do you see in Franson's game that make you think he's not worth that kind of money and term?  And can you think of any comparable defensemen/comparable contracts that you think are more realistic for a guy like him?

#2568494 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 12:52 PM

Whoever said we don't have space for a big contract is wrong. We've got $8 million in space right now. And we are relying on cheap drafted players for the future. We've got plenty of cap space moving forward.


Agreed.  Plus, I think it's understood that if we signed a guy like Franson long term, we'd probably be letting Quincey walk after next season.  Just a guess, but seems like a reasonable one. 

#2568491 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 12:42 PM

He reminds me of a james wizniewski ... I recall a lot of people wanted him and he ended up going to Columbus for around 5 per for 5 years? He's not worth the contract and neither will franson , and he will end up on a team that will overpay and a team that has a hard time attracting free agents



James Wisniewski isn't worth his contract?  He's a top four offensive defenseman and powerplay quarterback.  Since he's been with Columbus he's scored 115 points in 199 games.  He also averages over 20 minutes a night.  He's been top ten in defense scoring twice in the four years he's been there, and has contributed 14 powerplay goals and 47 powerplay points since then. 


What would he need to do to be worth his contract if he's not doing it already?  Learn to fly?  Do the team's taxes as well?

#2568488 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 05 February 2015 - 12:31 PM

Your kidding right? It's all over the sports news all the time here how he loves toronto and how toronto isn't willing to budge from the 4 mill per ballpark , it has nothing to do with past 1 year offers ... if they realize how amazing he is they'd just give him the 5 per longterm and be done with it

And why even bring up kronwall? Kronwall is also what? 7 years older? And he's much better overall than franson is
If he's as good as you think he is they do anything to keep him and trade say a Phaneuf in the off season


Right, because trading Phaneuf and his massive (and undeserved) contract will be super duper easy to move. 


I'm not sure what's so hard to believe here.  Toronto mismanaged their team and now can't afford to keep a good player?  Good teams do it all the time, why is it so hard to believe a bad team (Toronto) couldn't do it too? 


I'll give you examples:


1. Boston couldn't afford to keep Iginla or Boychuk, but they aren't bad players. 

2.  Chicago couldn't afford to keep Campbell, Versteeg, Ladd, or Byfuglien, but they aren't bad players.  

3.  Detroit only offered Marian Hossa 4 million dollars to stay, but he's not a bad player. 


Sometimes, cap constraints mean you'll lose guys (or lowball guys) that you'd prefer to keep.  It happens...a lot.    


Get over it.  He's a good offensive defenseman.  You don't have to like him.  You don't have to want him on the team.  But your continued insistence that he must not be good because the Toronto Maple Leafs organization can't retain him (at market value), is absurd.  Completely and totally absurd. 


Is it really so hard to believe that that Maple Leafs are wrong?  Or stupid?  Or poorly run?  They've been wrong, stupid, and poorly run for the last 65 year!

#2568419 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 11:32 PM

If he is a really good 2/3 then why is toronto of all teams refusing to give him the contract you think we should give him?

As I said before I'm all for the rental ... I'm not willing to handcuff ourselves to that money and length of contract is all , on this team I don't think our coaching staff will see him ahead of kronwall Ericsson and dekeyser

Yes dekeyser doesn't have his offensive numbers but he's younger and I think his overall game is better and he will be ahead of franson when he's 27-28 ... Smith is starting to get things going and ouellet has a lot of upside (reminds me of vlasic from sj, won't out up big numbers but solid dependable d) and ouellet and smith doesn't cost us 5-6 per for 5-6 yrs


Toronto does everything absolutely backward.  If they aren't giving a guy a contract, that's almost a full fledged endorsement.  Seriously, if you use Toronto contract offers (and their worth) to form your impressions of players, then you'd have to conclude David Clarkson and Dion Phaneuf are REALLY good, and Cody Franson is garbage.  The actions of David Nonis should never...ever...be a guidepost for accurately formulating opinions.  Ever. 

#2568399 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 08:57 PM

Honestly if Franson did get traded here and then signed long term, I could pretend that it was the same Franson the entire time and pretend the horrible Choice never happened. He would for sure make me forget about the other guy...


Do you find it even remotely ironic that the guy who supposed wants to "pretend the horrible Choice never happened" is also the same guy who won't shut up about it?

#2568334 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:48 PM

Their offense may be down but Toronto is a free wheeling team.


Ok?  Why would their free wheelingness be used as an excuse for why Franson scores, but overlooked when it becomes clear that nobody else on their team scores much?  If their freewheeling offense inflates his numbers, why doesn't it inflate anybody else's?


I'm not sure why everybody is trying to hard to make the guy out to be worse than he is.  He was a good offensive player with Nashville (a non freewheeling team) and he's a good offensive player with Toronto.  AND, not surprisingly, he's getting better with age. 


There are probably some reasons not to like his game, but suggesting he's not good offensively isn't one of them.

#2568329 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:22 PM

Did you consider that maybe franson has more pts cause the leafs defense sucks so he gets a lot of playing time? Power play time? Who else are the leafs gonna put?reilly is just a kid , gardiner is over hyped ... Dion isn't good offensively .. I'm sure if we checked franson's pts came mostly on the ppl and with the kessel line when they were actually scoring

If he was so good why isn't the leafs willing to give him 5-5.5 a year for 5-6 years?

For a rental I'd take him but to have him at that price for that long I'll most definetly pass ... He's not a top pairing dman


He plays on their second pair and runs their second power play.  The EXACT same things he'd do here.  I'm not sure what you think he does for them/what you think he'd be doing for us?


If I'm following you correctly, you're suggesting that Cody Franson's points MAY be inflated because he gets powerplay time and plays with an offensively gifted player (Kessel).  That's reasonable.  But then it stands to reason that if powerplays and better offense inflate stats, his number would be better in Detroit...since we've got a better powerplay, better team offense, and a (currently) better individual goal scorer than Kessel. 

#2568325 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 04:16 PM


There is more to offence then points. 


Ill take Kronwall over Franson on the PP any day. Ill also take Kronwall in my own end to make the first pass 100 percent of the time. 


Of course, there is no argument that Kronwall is better than Franson defensively. 


Seriously though, when was the last time a player left the wings and didn't increase their point totals? (Brunner ) If Franson comes here you can expect him to lose 20-30% of that point total, just like any other FA in recent history who came here other than Hossa 


You're making a few pretty dubious statements here. 


Firstly, saying "there's more to offense than points", while true, immediately discounts the MOST IMPORTANT part of offense...points.  Sure there's more, but scoring points is the central part of offense. That's as silly as saying that there's more to defense than stopping points. 


Secondly, Filppula, J. Williams, Miller, Brunner, Snyder, Rafalski, and Hudler had their career high point totals in Detroit.  Likewise, neither Bertuzzi or Alfredsson saw their points fall after coming to Detroit from other teams.  Tomas Kopecky saw his production increase on a Stanley Cup team in Chicago (the same point I'm currently making about Franson coming to a better team), but it has since leveled off to the same production he had in Detroit.  Weiss has been hurt so you can't really tell.  The guys I can think of off the top of my head, whose production was worse in Detroit than elsewhere, were Kyle Quincey, Marian Hossa, Brad Stuart, Patrick Eaves, Ville Leino, and Robert Lang.  So I'd say it's a mixed bag...at best. 


Thirdly, don't be too excited to reject standard offensive measures (point totals) for "other offensive measures".  Cody Franson has better fancy stats than Kronwall too.  His Corsi and Fenwick are higher than Kronwall's, suggesting that he has a greater influence on his entire team's offense than does Kronwall. 


Finally, who cares about Kronwall's defense?  I didn't say Franson was a better player.  I said he's better offensively than all of our defensemen accept Kronwall (but maybe Kronwall too).  Between his points and fancy stats I'd say I"ve made the case that he's close to Kronwall (or slightly above) offensively.


Interesting point, look at Quincey's numbers outside of a Wings uniform and with a Wings uniform.  The difference is stark.


See above. 

#2568318 Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

Posted by kipwinger on 04 February 2015 - 03:46 PM



Rest of the statement I agree





edit: My terrible spelling of the word absurd


It's not that absurd.  In their first 5 seasons, Kronwall score at .46 points per game, and Franson scored .41 points per game.  That's a difference of 4 points over an 82 game season.  My guess is, that this tiny difference in points can probably be attributed to the relative differences in the quality of the teams they've played for. 


Kronwall played on two Stanley Cup finalist teams and 2 other President's trophy winning teams in his first five years. 


And Cody Franson played for Nashville and Toronto.