Buppy, now whop is cherry picking? have you ever read anything about Weiss's career? he is always hurt. basically every season he is hurt. Just in case you haven't followed, here are the highlights:
2002/02-His first full season. Plays 77 games-has a broken toe
2003/04-plauys 50 games-broken leg and sprained knee
2005/06-plays 41 games-major wrist injury
2006/07-plays in 74 games-knee and shoulder injuries
2007/08-plays in 74 games-shoulder injuries again
2008/09-plays 78 games-groin injury-best season to date
2009/10-plays 80 games and is largely healthy all year
2010/11-plays 76 games-only minor injuries but numbers drop-49 points
2011/12-playus 80 games-no major injuries
2012/13-plays 17 games-major wrist injury
2013/14-played 26 games-hernia surgey, missed 32 games so far
Now I ask you, who is Weiss? is it more likely he is the guy that gets hurt in 6 of his 11 seasons or the guy that remains healthy for 5 of the 11 seasons? He is also 31 soon-in April. We signed a guy to a long term deal for good money that 1. can't stay healthy overall and 2. His best days are already behind him. That means 1 thing: Bad deal.
74 or more games in 7 out of 10 years prior to signing here. He also played in the AHL during the lockout. 80 games. 8 out of 11. 62 and 64 (out of 68) games his first two years in the OHL. 53 total games 01-02, not sure how many he might have missed from injury, since he was on the Florida roster for part of the year then went back to junior, but I'll still say he could have played 68. He's played 72 out of 73 playoff games his teams have played. All told that's 988 out of 1140 possible games. ~87%, 10 of 13 years being better than that, and one more year being unsure but maybe lower.
Typically, around half the league misses 8 or more games every year. In 11-12, there were around 8300 man-games lost to injury (out of 44280). Almost 19%. Average of about 13 games lost for each of the 620 regular roster players. Injuries happen, and happen to most players at some point. Minor injuries happen to most players every year.
But even if you do assume he will miss time, you should still assume he would put up decent numbers...since he has done exactly that over his career. The least we should expect is 14-15 goals, 40-ish points. Maybe not great for almost $5M, but his recent history does suggest he should be better than that, at least in the short term.
If you don't like Weiss, fine, just say that. Stop acting like there's some statistical evidence that proves he was going to suffer a major injury this season, or will in the future, or that his production would decline dramatically.
Posted by kipwinger
on 13 December 2013 - 09:18 AM
I agree he's not as good as last year, but when you've already got that opinion of a guy you're looking for every little thing he does wrong. And when it's a third pairing defenseman, there's a lot of ammo.
Example: It was either last game, or two games ago that Datsyuk got completely undressed along the goal line for a goal. Not a single mention of it in the GDT. Why? It doesn't happen often, and nobody scrutinizes Datsyuk. It's easier to keep banging away on something Kindl or Quincey does.
Another Example: Mr. streaky and inconsistent Johan Franzen had shorter goal scoring droughts last year than Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Any mention at the time of them disappearing from the score sheet? Nope. Franzen gets that title hung from his neck. Why? Because he's already got the inconsistent tag.
In conclusion, Kindl isn't very good defensively. He's not supposed to be. He's a third pairing guy who's an offensive d-man and is on track to score around 30 pts. this year. He's doing his job. We're not losing games because of Kindl.
Filppula is not worth $5m, plain and simple. I don't think he's even worth $4m. You say Filppula contributes a lot; I disagree. I think he is far from an impact player, and he's invisible when he isn't producing. He fit best as a third-line center, and he wants to be paid like a first-line center.
So you're just refusing to address any of the arguments I make, and then just rehash what everyone already thinks anyway?
I don't want to pay him even $5m right now either because we can't know what player is going to show up. But if he is scoring 60-70 points, yeah, he's worth $5m. You can't tell me he's not. Filppula was 12th in even strength scoring in 11-12 (ahead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg) despite playing far less at even strength than anyone who scored as much as him at even strength and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. If you told a GMs a player was going to have those kind of stats next year, he'd get 6 or 7 million. This is why I'd like to see him get a 2 year contract for around what me makes now to see if he can play at that level. If not, sign him for cheap or let him walk.
because he tries to pass the puck on a breakaway.
I'll paypal you $20 right now if you can find a video of one time he was on a breakaway and passed the puck.
And 66 points is a lot of points for someone who literally kills offense.
He failed because he's a worse version of everything we already have
So should our team only be Datsyuk and Zetterberg because everyone else is just a worse version of them (a hockey player)?
Sorry, are we talking about Filppula here? You know, the guy who has only averaged more than .5ppg once in his career, who is prone to brutal fits of inconsistency, who lacks any sort of physicality, who is invisible when he isn't scoring, and who, in general, has simply not panned out as the player he was expected to be? On no planet does Filppula's play merit a salary of $5m. And he is by absolutely no means one of the best players on the team.
We have to be watching different games. Apart from Pav or Z, who is better than Flip on forward? Cleary got points this playoffs a lot from pucks bouncing off him and Franzen is a lazy POS who only scores goals when other players get him a spectacular scoring chance. Fil has tons more skill than Cleary and tons more work ethic than Franzen. He is an incredible puck possession player, usually wins battles along the boards with his finesse and is excellent (maybe best on the team) at skating the puck through the neutral zone and setting up in the offensive zone. Not to mention always back checking and being great on defense. You can't say anything of these things about Cleary or Franzen.
If you rate players but outcome versus expectation (which is what you;re doing), yeah, he's not going to be near the top. But if you rate players on what they actually do, he's the best forward on the team not named Zetterberg or Datsyuk.
It's just like Hossa's playoff run with us. The way people talked about it you would think he had 3 points in 30 games, when in reality he was still one of our top scorers, he just didn't play as well as we thought he would. That doesn't mean he sucks.
And just for the record, I don't think we should give him over $4m long term at least until he can prove that he is the 70 points Filppula, not the 40 point Filppula. I'm just saying he's a better overall player than both Franzen and Cleary.
But unless Holland has plans to truly upgrade his top six (read: Horton, Clarkson) you have to think that Detroit with Filpulla is better than Detroit with Samuelson.
That's the only frustrating thing.
Sammy @ 3M
Tootoo @ 1.9M
Quincey @ 3.5M
These are all bad contracts $-wise. OK term-wise.
I guess what I'm saying is that I think 4M for Filpulla is fair (but pushing it a little). I also think 3M for Brunner is perhaps fair.
It kills me to think that both of these guys could walk over a 0.5 - 1.5M difference in asking vs offering when Kenny has overpaid for at least three players that the team doesn't really need (not that I have any huge issue with Tootoo, Sammy, or Quincey).
Franzen lazy and bored floats air biscuits towards the net, shows up 25% of the season. Burrows gives 100% and actually tries to make plays....
So you'd prefer a guy who "tries to make plays" but succeeds less than the guy who is perceived to not be trying?
Those 25% and 100% ... is there any way to substantiate that, or is that just your perception?
I'll take the guy who puts up the numbers, you can have the guy who tries really, really hard ... perhaps someday the NHL will give out Participation Trophies and Burrows will get recognized for all that production while playing with, not one, but two of the NHL's perennial high scorers.
The same people on here dissing Smith will be the same ones all over Dekeyser when his wheels fall off. If ya actually read the stats in the playoffs Smith hasn't been that bad. 11 hits 15 blocked shots 5 points and -3. Pretty darn good for a rookie Dman.
Guys, we took out the #2 team in 7 games. We are one win away from doing the same to the #1 team. We had to win our last 4 games to make the playoffs!! Now we get 14 extra games this year, and you want to give Smith crap for making rookie mistakes against THE BEST FOOKING HOCKEY PLAYERS IN THE WORLD? Are you serious? We are playing the Blackhawks. You dont think Smith is going to struggle against them? Everyone is struggling against them. Even our fricking captain has disappeared. Chicago is good. Get used to it.
The President's trophy team isn't going to lose 4 straight in the playoffs to a 7th seed, with the 4th loss being at home. Game 5 shouldn't have been a surprise. Game 6 was our best chance to close the series. We had the game under control through 40 minutes, then Smith makes a rookie mistake and its tied. Quincey's stick breaks, we're losing. Frolik scores on a penalty shot that was a bad call. It happens, now we have to do it the hard way. Babcock is right to keep Smith in there. Its time to look at the bigger picture here. The experience he's getting from these games will help for many years down the road. Years when we're not the 7th seed trying to beat the top two seeds just to get to the Conference Finals.
You can say they "choked" all you want, but the success they've had in these playoffs will be felt for years. Watching guys like Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Howard, and Kindl play in these high pressure games and play well, bodes well for us down the line. Sure Smith is making a lot of mistakes, but he's making some nice plays too and gaining lots of experience. The guy is only 24 years old playing in his first full NHL season. Give him a break. Going into these playoffs I felt like the team had a ton of holes, but after 13 playoff games, I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.
Hockey is a team game. Did Smith blow it on those 2 goals in the 3rd? Absolutely. How come no one is blaming Cola for shooting hte puck with his head down to a player who was right in his lane which led to a breakaway? Howard did not even move on the penalty shot goal. Players make mistakes. Some make more than others. Smith is being beat up all the time for all his mistakes. However no one gives the kid credit when he creates a goal with an excellent play. This is his first FULL season in the NHL and he is learning by fire. We all act like it's only rookies who make mistakes. Plenty of veterans screw up as well. I am not saying Smith's gaffes are not worth criticizing. But the Wings lost that game for a variety of reasons. Howard could not make a save in the 3rd when we needed it. Pav and Z cannot get on the scoresheet. Flip and Mule are terrible. Abs cannot capitalize when he gets the chance. Cola is showing he is not very good. The D these entire playoffs turns the puck over WAY too much.
This Wings team is doing the best they can. We do not match the Hawks in terms of talent and it shows. Their newly made 2nd line is giving us fits. We had the chance to put the Hawks away with a PP after Crawford gave up a backbreaking goal and we could not do it. Playoff hockey is about momentum and we do not have it right now. I feel bad for Smith because I believe he is going to be one of the best dmen in the league someday. Most dmen don't become very good right away.
I just don't want Smith to be made the scapegoat all the time when plenty of his teammates are getting little to no blame. It isn't fair and it's also the easy thing to do. I think Smith is going to have a great Game 7 and I believe in the kid.