That is a ridiculous standard, and if you were to apply it to any other GM in the history of any sport you're not going to find even one you think is adequate.
In the span of a few seasons we lost Yzerman, Shanahan, Hull, Robitaille, Fischer, Larionov, Hasek, among others, plus maybe the best coach of all time. Chelios went from a Norris candidate to depth player, Draper and Maltby from invaluable role-players to guys filling out the roster. We'd lost in the first round, second round, and first round. We had a lot of good prospects and could afford to lose some. Plus we made the transition to the cap era.
Holland made some moves, some were decent, some not so much. We signed some cast-offs that no one else wanted, brought up some young guys, signed one big UFA. It worked and we won a Cup. It wasn't luck that we had a bunch of cheap guys. It's what you have to do in the cap era. Then we had to start paying guys and trying to fill the rest of the roster with bargains. Some of those guys were decent, some not so much.
It's just not reasonable to expect that we should have had a replacement for Lidstrom before he left. The only way to get that is to get lucky, either with a prospect or someone else's cast off. If you want someone already proven, you would have had to give up a lot to get them, and we couldn't have fit them under the cap. We would have had to make the team worse in previous years. Maybe in hindsight you can say they should have, because we haven't done much in the playoffs anyway, but really you all would have just been bitching about mismanagement back then.
Some people are completely backward in thinking that the biggest needs, the biggest losses, should be the easiest to fill. Fact is, those holes have the fewest available options and the least margin for error. That's why almost no one, in any sport, in any era in history, has much success filling them without a hitch.
Nothing Holland could have done would have been better than landing Suter and Parise (particularly since we wouldn't have had to give up anything), and he put us in position to make a strong play for both of them. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. But we're still in a good position to add more, and we still have a well stocked prospect pool. Maybe, probably even, things will get worse before they get better. That's the nature of the beast. We need stars and those almost always come through the draft. Once we have our next generation of stars, then will come the time to start making trades and looking for a good UFA or two to put us over the top. Hopefully at that time, some of the young prospects we have now will emerge to fill some roles at bargain prices.
Sure, we could make a move or two now and it might work out. Or not. Look at the Rangers, Philly, San Jose... Maybe Holland could have done better. But who actually has?
Pittsburgh? Cup winner, last three years lost in the 2nd, 1st, and 1st round. Found some nice fits at forwards, including one absolute steal of a trade, wrecked their defense. Looking good this year, maybe they'll go somewhere, maybe not. Their best players can't stay healthy, probably going to have cap troubles again in a couple years.
Chicago? Cup winner, sat watching the TV hoping for Dallas to lose to put them in the playoffs the following year. Two first round losses. Looking good this year... Likely cap trouble again next year.
Boston? Cup winner, lost in the first round last year. Looking good... maybe some cap trouble next year.
LA? Cup winner, had to fight down to the wire to make the playoffs, likely the same this year. About $15M to fill almost half their roster next year...
Anaheim? Doing great this year after plenty of struggles since their Cup win. Big commitments to their stars likely to create some cap issues down the road...
Pretty much all that separates us from any of them is they have young stars while ours are aging. Most of them were irrelevent not long ago, and will likely end up back there before too long. Come back when their stars are aging and see how much better they do than Holland. I bet none of them do half so well.
What Holland has already done proves that he's a great GM. He's had some luck, and a great staff to work with, but he's still been great. No matter how successfully we make it through our current transition or the next.
the biggest issue i have with the holland critics is that most of them completely gloss over the good moves holland has made and only focus on the bad ones, in particular the hossa and franzen situation.
Holland never gets credit for giving osgood another chance after the lockout when everyone said he was washed up
he never gets credit for signing datsyuk long term right after the lockout ended. this board was calling for holland's head after that one. datsyuk is now arguably the league's best player.
he never gets credit for trading for brad stuart during the cup winning season. he turned out to be our number 2 dman for 3 years after that
he never gets credit for going out and getting rafalski the day after Schneider left back in the summer of 07
these are all moves that directly helped the wings win a cup but i never see any of the holland critics ever give him credit for these moves.
Posted by chances14
on 08 February 2013 - 02:58 AM
While mrazek did well tonight, lets not jump the gun.
Jimmy Howard won his first career game but it was an uphill climb for a few years after that. Lets see what happens when the defense isn't playing well and mrazek has to stop several good scoring chances.
Posted by chances14
on 01 February 2013 - 10:35 PM
Yes I think it was the wrong call too but again refing was bad for both teams, so I don't feel quilty we won because of it.
agreed. wings have been shafted by the refs way too many times in the past for me to feel guilty about a call that goes our way for once.
special teams continues to be a huge problem, especially the powerplay. i know they scored 2 powerplay goals but it was pretty much non existent outside of that. It's like every player on the wings suddenly goes into slow motion once the powerplay begins. you can pretty much predict where every pass is going to go.
I love hockey. Bettman is the worst thing to ever happen to the sport and I want us to do whatever we can to get rid of him. He is the epitome of all the bad things people say about lawyers and politicians. Machiavellian is a perfect word to describe his management of the league. He is a text book case of the Napoleon Complex.
Pasha has entertained us, he has given us a Cup and has accepted a lot less to play for the Wings than he could have got on the open market. Essentialy he has paid millions of dollars (money he could have had) to play here. He has given us memories. And now they will pay him even less than what they signed him for (already a huge discount)
i disagree with that part. at the time the contract was signed back in 07-08 i think he was given a market value contract at the time it was signed. he was the second highest paid wing behind lidstrom at the time
Too bad it's not true. The Wings organization has broken that contract.
no they didn't.
all standard player contracts are subject to any changes that a new cba brings
Well they have the framework done, so we will be having hockey. We don't have much to worry about in buyouts since our cap hit is $61,442,045. The cap for next season is $64.3 million. The only reason we would have to buy out a player is if someone becomes available that we want that would cost us more than $3 million a season. So everyones hopes of franzen being gone are almost completely null and void now. Not to mention he clearly is worth every penny for a 30 goal scorer, even if he does slack off half the season.
just because the wings are set salary cap wise does not mean that they won't buy anyone out. like i mentioned earlier, if you are given the chance to get out of a long term contract for an under performing player (aka franzen) with no consequences salary cap wise, you do take advantage of it. it's not like these amnesty buyouts come around every year. this is going to be a huge season for franzen.
I still am stunned. Last night was just a nightmare roller-coaster. Every single reporter said "deal unlikely", "meetings slow, little progress", and then the meetings never seemed to end. Then all the cautious optimism became legit optimism at around 3-4 AM when we realized that there must be significant progress going on. BAM, everybody tweets: deal done. HFBoards absolutely explodes.
They've done some damage but in the end the owners have come to their senses and made their fair share of compromises after the players were giving the entire time.
once it reached 3am and they were going on 14-15 hours straight of talking, i knew that a deal would be reached when i woke up today. you don't talk for that long into the night if you don't feel like a deal is within reach
NHL Center Ice should be free for this season. Would be a nice thing for the fans but I highly doubt it happens.
i think it's more likely that the gamecenter will be free. not sure how the center ice thing would work with all the different cable providers