chances14

I love the Wings.

I love hockey. Bettman is the worst thing to ever happen to the sport and I want us to do whatever we can to get rid of him. He is the epitome of all the bad things people say about lawyers and politicians.  Machiavellian is a perfect word to describe his management of the league. He is a text book case of the Napoleon Complex.

Pasha has entertained us, he has given us a Cup and has accepted a lot less to play for the Wings than he could have got on the open market. Essentialy he has paid millions of dollars (money he could have had) to play here. He has given us memories. And now they will pay him even less than what they signed him for (already a huge discount)

 

i disagree with that part. at the time the contract was signed back in 07-08 i think he was given a market value contract at the time it was signed. he was the second highest paid wing behind lidstrom at the time

 

 

Too bad it's not true. The Wings organization has broken that contract.

 

 

 

no they didn't.

 

all standard player contracts are subject to any changes that a new cba brings

You got a source for that?

 

http://prohockeytalk...ortened-season/

 

it's all pure speculation at this point. we will know for sure once the schedule gets released this week

Well they have the framework done, so we will be having hockey. We don't have much to worry about in buyouts since our cap hit is $61,442,045. The cap for next season is $64.3 million. The only reason we would have to buy out a player is if someone becomes available that we want that would cost us more than $3 million a season. So everyones hopes of franzen being gone are almost completely null and void now. Not to mention he clearly is worth every penny for a 30 goal scorer, even if he does slack off half the season.

 

just because the wings are set salary cap wise does not mean that they won't buy anyone out. like i mentioned earlier, if you are given the chance to get out of a long term contract for an under performing player (aka franzen) with no consequences salary cap wise, you do take advantage of it. it's not like these amnesty buyouts come around every year. this is going to be a huge season for franzen.

I still am stunned. Last night was just a nightmare roller-coaster. Every single reporter said "deal unlikely", "meetings slow, little progress", and then the meetings never seemed to end. Then all the cautious optimism became legit optimism at around 3-4 AM when we realized that there must be significant progress going on. BAM, everybody tweets: deal done. HFBoards absolutely explodes.

They've done some damage but in the end the owners have come to their senses and made their fair share of compromises after the players were giving the entire time.

once it reached 3am and they were going on 14-15 hours straight of talking, i knew that a deal would be reached when i woke up today. you don't talk for that long into the night if you don't feel like a deal is within reach

NHL Center Ice should be free for this season. Would be a nice thing for the fans but I highly doubt it happens.

i think it's more likely that the gamecenter will be free. not sure how the center ice thing would work with all the different cable providers

Given where the Wings are cap-wise for 2013-14 & the amount of young forwards they have ready to contribute, I doubt Kenny uses either of his 2 buy-outs.  The bigger question is which UFAs/RFAs come back.

 

FA's in 2013-14:

 

Filppula (UFA)

Cleary (UFA)

Brunner (UFA)

Nyquist (RFA)

Miller (UFA)

Mursak (RFA)

White (UFA)

Kindl (RFA)

Smith (RFA)

Howard (UFA)

it depends on how well franzen performs imo. if the rumors about holland offering franzen in a trade for rick nash are true, i think he will be willing to buy him out if he doesn't perform. holland would be dumb to pass up the opportunity to get rid of albatross long term contract without any repercussions on a guy who has played like he mentally checked out 2 years ago

from lebrun

 

OK, it turns out the players and their leader, Don Fehr, were in foul mood after they discovered the league might have tried to pull as fast one on HRR language in last week's offer. Did I say last week’s offer? Yes, I did. Did it really take a week for the union’s lawyers to find the HRR treachery? I don’t have a law degree and I’m sure these things are complicated, but if I’m a player I’m just as angry at the league for trying to pull a fast one as much as wanting to know why it took a week for my people to figure it out.

 

all i can do is laugh and shake my head.

 

if this isn't further proof that both sides need to clean house after this is over, then i don't know what is

I know (i'm, pretty sure anyway) that it takes 3/4 of the owners to fire him

pretty sure that's wrong.

 

it's 2/3 majority who are present at the meeting

 

look at page 25 of the document that kip linked to.

 

 it takes 3/4 majority or unanimous to make any most changes or amendments to the nhl constitution. so any powers that bettman was granted, it took majority of the owners to approve them.

pa says league tried to sneak in hrr changes without them noticing. league says that they notified the pa of changes to hrr a week ago

 

just another day in the life of the dysfunctional relationship that is the owners and pa

the fact that neither side is whining/pouting to the press is a good sign

Guys, remember, the Wings' management/ownership voted in favor of the lockout.  I'm pretty sure I read that Holland was the one who actually cast the Wings' vote.  Hockey fans are PISSED about the lockout, and this was a way to express that anger.  I wouldn't read any more into it (other than that Ford Field was full of Chicago fans on Sunday!)

the wings ownership voted for this lockout aka mike illitch. if you can find me a link that says ken holland is calling the shots for the red wings in this lockout, please share it with me and i will gladly take it back.

 

there are much more effective and productive ways for fans to express their anger( i.e don't go to games, don't buy merchandise, don't buy center ice, etc). booing a gm who most likely has no say in this lockout makes the fans look ignorant and foolish imo

Before Fehr even became involved with the NHL, they lost more games due to labour disputes than all the major sports leagues combined during his tenure.
Perhaps there's something about the genetics that makes someone a good hockey player that also makes him greedier and stupider than other athletes.

i just don't understand how people can't see both sides as being nothing but villians when both sides have displayed instances of bad faith negotiations during this lockout.

For all those saying Fehr is as responsible as Bettman. That's just not fair.
Fehr first worked for the MLBPA as a lawyer on one specific case in 1975, then was hired as general counsel (on par with Bob Batterman of the NHL) in 1977. He didn't start working as Director of the MLBPA until 1983, officially gaining the title in 1985. So technically any work stoppages that happened prior to his taking over the PA in 1983 are not on his shoulders, but we'll go ahead and look at them anyway...

1980 MLB Strike, lasted 8 days in March, 0 games lost. 1981 MLB Strike, June 12 to July 31, 0 games lost. 1985 MLB Strike, lasted 2 days August 6-7, 0 games lost. 1990 MLB lockout, lasted 32 days in spring, 0 games lost. 1994 MLB Player Strike, lasted 232 days from August 12 to April 2, 931 to 948 games lost plus the entire offseason. From 1995 until his retirement in 2009, the MLB did not have a single additional work stoppage. Until now, as head of the NHLPA he is caught in the 2012-13 NHL Lockout.

Bettman began working as NHL commissioner in 1993. His tenure includes the 1994 NHL Lockout, which lasted 3 months from October 1 to January 11, 468 games lost. In addition, the infamous 2004 NHL Lockout, which lasted 10 months from September 16 to July 13, 1230 games lost plus the entire offseason. Plus the current 2012-13 NHL Lockout, which as of the most recent round of cancelled games puts it at 625 games lost.

So counting this year's NHL Lockout in which both men are involved, we have Fehr with 6 work stoppages and Bettman with 3. So yes, if you just look at it like that, it does seem to paint Fehr as the villain here. However, ignoring this year's lockout as it affects both Fehr and Bettman, of Fehr's 5 MLB work stoppages, only 1 resulted in lost games, whereas both of Bettman's previous NHL work stoppages resulted in lost games. How about total games lost due to work stoppages? Fehr lost 931-948 games due to the 1994 MLB Players strike, while Bettman lost 1698 games during his first two lockouts. What's more, if you consider it in perspective, the MLB plays almost twice as many games a year, 162 games vs the NHL's 82 games. So proportionally, Bettman has caused over 3x as many lost games as Fehr has.

So who has presided over more work stoppages? Fehr, 6 (although only in charge for 4 of those) to 3. But who has caused more games to be lost? Bettman, 3x as many as Fehr has. Who has been involved in more work stoppages that were able to be resolved before any real games were lost? Fehr, 4 of his work stoppages (2 in which he was in charge) were able to be resolved without losing any games, whereas Bettman is now 0 for 3 in saving games...

whereas blaming bettman as the only one responsible for this lockout is equally unfair.

bottom line is both fehr and bettman have been known to push the envelope in negotiations. both of them should be treated like villains, not just bettman

this legal analyst from sportsnet doesn't believe for a second that the players will win this in courts

http://www.sportsnet..._antitrust_law/

What Uncle Gary said is equally well documented, just more overlooked and forgotten by most who choose to take that path. From Sportsnet:



If he didn't mean it, Uncle Gary shouldn't have said it. Then again, he knew he was going to "turn the key" on 15/09/2012.

also from the article

Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, hinted Saturday that he might be in favour of putting off serious negotiations until the summer.

so while both sides didn't feel the urgency, fact is the nhl was ready to negotiate and the pa wasn't

i also found the last part interesting

Fehr wasn't around for the last set of negotiations and he didn't sugarcoat what happened to the union the last time it sat across the table with the league.

"I don't think it's a matter of conjecture whether the players made significant concessions in the last agreement," he said. "It was an enormous amount of money in terms of the wealth transfer over the period of the agreement. The players understand what that was.
"They understand what happened."

i think this "we were wronged" attitude is partly to blame in all of this

This is getting old.

I've had it done to me on a few occasions in this thread. Just returning the favor. Sorry if that offends you