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Member Since 19 Jun 2011
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#2335806 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 10 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

Based on the rhetoric, the players want the fans to blame the owners as much as the owners want the fans to blame the players. I don't listen to the rhetoric.

I will say this much, hockey has lost more games due to labor disputes because of both the NHL and NHLPA. Remember, during the last lockout when the players were making over 70% of the total revenues, the league was justified in locking them out. Many were on the owners side then. Were the players at fault for not giving up enough back then? I feel that a deal could have been reached if both sides actually cared about the sport and the fans. Instead, greed ruled above everything else.

This year is no different from any other lockout year in the NHL. There is great distrust between the sides. Both sides want everything and then some. This isn't the fault of one side or the other in specific, but both sides. I have given up trying to tell people here this because of the bias here on these forums toward the players union. When I look back on all the strikes/lockouts of the last 20 years in the NHL though, its hard to not see that both sides are just not able to handle treating the other side with respect and negotiate in good faith. It was going on back during the players strike and all the way up until today.

This next deal will not be the end of these lockouts. You can count on one at the expiration of the next CBA, probably a players strike this time, and you will see lost games. Unlike other leagues, the NFL knows to keep the money train going. The NBA has its share of issues but they worked out a deal with minimal lost games. The NHL still hasn't learned the basics of labor harmony.

the dysfunction between the pa and the league can go all the way back to alan eagleson in the 80's, whom was found to be essentially in the owners back pocket. once he was removed, the union brings in bob goodenow, who has the players go on strike in 1992 on the eve of the stanley cup finals. then a year later the league brings in bettman to push back and we have been in the era of ugly labor stoppages ever since.

i don't normally agree with cherry, but he is dead on in this article

in all his years of knowing Gary Bettman, Don Cherry had never seen the NHL commissioner as emotional as he was addressing the media following last week’s collective bargaining meetings between the players and owners, which seemingly gained traction and then broke off sharply.

“I’m not saying he was crying or anything, but he actually had water on the sides of his eyes, he was so mad,” Cherry told Brady and Lang on Sportsnet 590 The Fan Monday morning. “I’ve never seen him like that, and I know him personally. I think it’s going to get personal right now. I think they have to hold him back and he’s going to have to bite his lip a little bit because it’s getting personal right now.”

As for the idea of holding a secret ballot within the NHLPA to gauge whether the group is in favour holding out longer for what they want, Cherry believes it can’t hurt. There is no way a player making the league average or lower would voice his opinion otherwise, Cherry said.

“You would be nailed to the cross if you ever stood up and said, ‘Let’s accept the owners’ suggestion and contract,’ ” Cherry explained. “What’s the harm in a secret ballot? If it comes out 100 per cent reject, then at least you know where you stand.

“Guys like (Boston Bruins owner) Jeremy Jacobs -- you think he’s not licking his lips right now?” Cherry asked. “(Players) have got to realize, these teams for these billionaire owners are toys. This is not their main (source of income). If you keep pushing them up the wall, you’re going to be very sorry. They’re calling these billionaires ‘idiots’? That really kills me. You’re not going to snow these guys. These guys have been in negotiations.”

#2335804 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 10 December 2012 - 04:07 PM


good article on the breakdown of the core economic issues and while those are the most important issues, there are some things that the owners have given the players. and while they aren't nearly as important as the big issues, i'm sure the players will be glad to have them. also, that article didn't mention the pension issues, which would be considered an owner's concession

among other things, the owners have proposed to 1) artificially inflate the salary cap in Year 1 so teams don’t have to trade or release players; 2) trade player salary and cap charges in trades (this is something both teams and players have wanted); 3) eliminate re-entry waivers; 4) Increase revenue sharing with further increases as revenues grow, and the top grossing teams making the biggest contributions (revenue sharing is something Don Fehr is passionate about; wants it so the teams that really need assistance are assisted); 5) Introduction of appeal rights to a neutral third-party arbitrator in cases involving on- and- off-ice discipline (player-proposed wish).

Some other things that the players should like:

1) Joint NHL/NHLPA Health and Safety Committee with equal representation by the league and union; 2) Establishment of a “standard of care” and “primary allegiance” obligations between the team medical staff and players (this is directly due to the tragic Derek Boogaard situation that remains ongoing); 3) Offseason rehab activities would no longer be required in the team’s home city; 4) Players have access to second medical opinions at the club expense; 5) Ice time restrictions and days off during training camp; 5) Improved facility standards in visiting locker rooms; 6) Ice condition improvements and standards; 7) More player friendly rules for parent-son trips, teams would have to pay for parents travel and lodging to first-ever games, other milestones; 8) Different standards for rent and mortgage reimbursements from teams; 9) increased access to tickets for visiting players and also a game ticket policy that minimizes the tax impact on players; 10) And also, the league has agreed to consider a player proposal for single rooms for all players on the road, which would be thousands of extra dollars spent on travel. Typically, players share rooms on the road unless you’re a longstanding player (600 games), or in a lot of cases, goaltenders.


The players are being generous helping the owners pay for contracts they offered but couldn't afford to

legally, the owners are the ones being generous with the make whole because all contracts signed are subject to changes to a new cba. the players and agents are fully aware that contracts could and most likely will be changed when a new cba comes along, which is why i believe suter and parise got so much signing bonus money, which is not subject to cba changes. now you could argue morally and ethically the owners are in the wrong if they don't offer to honor contracts in full which i agree they should, but legally they don't have to.

#2335741 13 pro teams running out of fans

Posted by chances14 on 10 December 2012 - 12:47 AM

i think phoenix would actually have to have some fans in order to run out of them

#2335683 New CBA

Posted by chances14 on 08 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Fun fact, for those who say that Mr. Fehr is the reason for this most recent lockout: he wasn't head of the NHLPA for the first two lockouts.
Put the blame at the feat of the little of person who turns the lockout key.

fehr is one of the reasons for this most recent lockout and you can be sure he will be a huge reason there will be another lockout in the future even if bettman isn't around. i think it's pretty clear now that the owners seem to have a personal hate of fehr and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

if both sides truly cared about the state of the game, they would clean house after this lockout is over and try to start anew, a working relationship that isn't so dysfunctional that the only way progress is made, is when the leaders of both sides aren't in the negotiating room.

#2335601 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 07 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

NO T in theory also in the real hockey world, if an owner can't or wont offer such a contract too bad but it is on his own terms. I am freaking sick and tired of hearing Mr. ANTI hockey and his hardline ******* trying to support franchises that shouldn't even have an NHL team, while teams who are providing more revenue are left out (I.E QUEBEC, Hamilton).

I now want the players to go nuclear and into decertification, they know some franchises won't survive an open market too bad the stubborn hardliners couldn't see that.

The PA provided a fair proposal the NHL didn't even bother reading it so to hell with this league.

in the first stages of the lockout, revenue sharing was actually a sticking point, with the players wanting more revenue sharing and the owners being against substantial revenue sharing. the reason for that is the players do not want to see any teams fold. less teams = less jobs for the union. players are just as guilty of wanting these small market teams to succeed as the owners.

it seems like these owners are in a no win situation. people get mad when owners don't spend money to make their teams better and only care about the bottom line, but then people turn around and get mad that owners are spending money that they can't afford to make their teams better.

#2335547 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 06 December 2012 - 11:54 PM

tsn guys talking about where talks go from here

Dreger said "there are players and agents that believe fehr is trying to crash this deal"

#2335535 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 06 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

fehr really messed up today and it may cost the players a ton of money.

owners made it clear that they didn't want him in the room today but he insisted on being in there and he wanted mediators there as well. all this despite the fact that significant progress was made the last 2 days without him and bettman in there (i don't think that's a coincidence). then 2 hrs later fehr proclaims to the media that this lockout is essentially over, only to have it blow up in his face a few minutes later on live tv. All indications pointed to a lot of players wanting to put the deal that the owners tabled to the entire pa for a vote but fehr advised against it.

that said the owners are being equally stupid with their take it or leave it approach to negotiating. there was no reason bettman had to come out and take everything off the table today. does anyone truly believe it's off the table anyways? I also don't like how the owners and bettman appear to have refused to start up negotiations again. i guess they are still too busy having their little hissy fits

Helene St. James@HeleneStJames
NHL has told PA there will be no meetings Friday. #NHLLockout

my fear now is what cherry brought up

Don Cherry@CoachsCornerCBC
Your way and the doves put an extra 100 million on the table and when the association said ok but... The doves turned into hawks themselves

I believe the hardliners said to the doves ok we did it your way and the association thinks we are weak.. Now we'll do it our way.

if that's the case and jacobs is back in control, this season is toast.

but the bottom line is both sides hate each other with a burning passion and both sides are acting like morons and until that changes, no season will be played

#2335515 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 06 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

oh boy

Scottie Upshall@ScottieUpshall
There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January.

if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners

#2335479 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 06 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

either fehr pissed of the moderates owners so much that these negotiations are going back into the hands of the hardliners or fehr really put some pr spin on his proposal.

#2335426 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 06 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

I guess I took it more as a sign of the NHLPA feeling like the league is still not negotiating properly, but I definitely like your interpretation better.

either that or it's a stall tactic by fehr. neither one would surprise me

#2335252 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 05 December 2012 - 12:07 AM

Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
NHL-NHLPA meeting over for the night. Meetings to resume early in the morning.

Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
Steve Fehr: "constructive day, best day we've had but still work to be done."

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika
Good signs: Daly, Steve Fehr stand side by side, say progress is being made, stay tight-lipped about details, say talks will continue.

#2335246 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 04 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

i can see the headlines now:

"crosby and the pens save the nhl season"

No, I think the general idea is that team employees/management shouldn't be in contact with the players....not owners.

both owners and gm's have been barred from talking to players during this lockout. maybe bettman gave them the okay though

#2335199 Illitch announces plan to build new arena

Posted by chances14 on 04 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

Only having been to the Joe for 8 games (long haul for me) - I can honestly say the sightlines the best...

That said - the seats are super cramped (my knees are usually in the ears of the fan sitting in front of me); the concourse is a disaster (where else must ya leave with 2 min left on the clock to ensure a 1st in line to the bathrooms, or to grab a beverage); there's only a handful of establishments nearby for before/after game festivities.

I've been to numerous arenas across the USA, and in Toronto; while they may lack the view of the ice that the Joe has - they are considerably better in other areas that fans may find enjoyable.

for me, the view of the ice is by far the most important thing to me. the other stuff i can deal with.

but then again i don't think i am the typical fan when it comes to going to sporting events. first off, i am smaller than the average person so the cramping of the seats isn't really a big deal for me. i usually don't buy food or beverage at the arena and i can usually hold off on the bathroom until after i leave the arena. when the game is over, i get the hell of out of detroit as fast as i can lol

#2335195 Does This Mean There Will Be No Wings WC Next Year?

Posted by chances14 on 04 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

it's already been confirmed that the next winter classic is going to be played at the big house

The National Hockey League today announced the cancellation of the 2013 Bridgestone NHL Winter Classic and 2012 SiriusXM Hockeytown Winter Festival. The NHL has confirmed that the next Winter Classic will be played at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor featuring the Detroit Red Wings and Toronto Maple Leafs and will include the Hockeytown Winter Festival at Comerica Park in Detroit.


#2335191 Illitch announces plan to build new arena

Posted by chances14 on 04 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

I've got such mixed feelings about this. My brain knows that it will be great for downtown and the city in general, but my heart can't understand why hockey would be played anywhere other than JLA.

agreed. it's going to be so weird seeing the wings playing in an arena other than the joe

If Ilitch builds a new state of the art arena with the "old school" charm of what the Olympia had I bet many here won't feel so bad about leaving the Joe.

i just hope they can maintain the good sight lines that the joe has. i honesty don't care about all the new bells and whistles of a new arena. i just want to be able to get a good view of the game