Jump to content


Ally's Photo

Ally

Member Since 23 Aug 2011
Offline Last Active Jul 21 2015 09:09 PM
-----

#2605008 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 30 April 2015 - 12:16 PM

 

The past was a long time ago.  Let it go.  

 

Wow, so our cup back in 08 and cup finals appearance in 09 was a "long time ago"?  Man, I wonder how Toronto feels with their last cup win.  Or Edmonton for that matter.  Heck, lets ask the Rangers how they feel since their last cup.

This really does show the level of entitlement that Wings fans have grown accustomed to over the course of the last 25 years.  Most teams have bandwagon fans.  The Wings have achieved a level of greatness where the bandwagon effect hasn't been measured because we have been good for so freaking long.

 

Now we are looking at Holland deserving blame for making the playoffs and not getting past the 2nd round since making it to the finals in 09.  When I see this attitude, I just shake my head in disbelief.  Is this really what some Wings fans have deteriorated to?  The salary cap era has made the playing field level.  No team is a slam dunk for a championship anymore. 

 

I will say this much.  Any new GM that comes in may have successes in some areas, but failures in others.  No GM is going to hit it out of the park on everything they do.  So while a new GM may have landed Parise and Suter for Detroit, he may have not gotten Dekeyser and wouldn't have gotten Hossa either because he wouldn't have had the money to get them all. 

 

I get it, Wings fans want a championship.  Its championship or bust mentality that really has to change though.  Only 1 team gets to win the Stanley Cup every year, and the favorite doesn't win it much of the time.  The sooner that we all realize that the Wings are just one of 16 teams in the playoffs and things have to go right for the team that wins it, the better off we will be.




#2605002 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by romagoth on 30 April 2015 - 12:12 PM

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.

 

I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.


So what, if we made the playoffs for 24 consecutive seasons (you don't get a trophy for it). Its not about making it to the playoffs, it's what you do in the playoffs that matters.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.




#2602696 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 28 April 2015 - 11:48 AM

I was purely asking when does Holland get blamed for his bad moves. 
 
It's clear he doesn't get any blame for any bad moves. He can do no wrong in Detroit. 


I honestly had to check your profile to see if you were new here after reading these statements. When does Holland get blamed for his bad moves? The answer, around here anyway, is ALL THE TIME. Constantly. It inevitably leaks into 90% of our threads along with Jimmy sucking and Babs being an incompetent coach. He gets absolutely *dragged* if he so much as farts in the same room players are in because it negatively affects air quality and makes them play worse. Yours are not new sentiments, and frankly it is refreshing seeing the level-headed, rational responses.

Bottom line: Holland, like all humans ever everywhere, has made some mistakes. Some absolute stinkers. Should we replace him with someone better? Sure, I'm all about improvement. Who should we court that is clearly a better GM than Holland?

*crickets*


#2602659 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by kipwinger on 28 April 2015 - 10:33 AM


I'm not happy just sneaking into the playoffs. And since Nill and Bowman and Yzerman have left, we have struggled. Agree or disagree?

 

Lol.  Disagree.  Whole heartedly. 

 

Since Bowman left (2002) we've made the playoffs every single year, went to the finals twice, and won the Cup once. 

 

Since Yzerman left (2010) we've made the playoffs every single year.

 

Same with Nill (2013). 

 

You know who's struggled since Yzerman and Nill left?  Yzerman and Nill. 




#2602655 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 10:27 AM

I hear you. But definitely disagree completely.

 

Holland isn't me or you. He's supposed to be our expert.

Some of this has to fall on him.

 

You can't blame Howard for not being the guy. Holland needs to have recognized that. If we can trade him this offseason that'd be a big step. For a bag of pucks even. Get rid of that cap number.

 

Franzen is overpaid based on what he's done for us. That's all I meant. 

 

Knowing who is injury prone is part of the GMs job. He can't predict it, but he can make a educational bet.

 

Nyquist or Tatar need to be traded in my opinion this offseason. They are too similar and while their stocks are high, could land us something we really need. Like another Top 3 D man. 


You could get Yzerman to come home. You could probably get Scotty to be our GM. 

 

What? You can't blame Howard for playing like garbage late this season but you can blame Holland for not being able to predict the future? :lol:

 

Let the records show, I tried to have a discussion here, but I'm out.




#2602651 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by kipwinger on 28 April 2015 - 10:22 AM

Only on LGW does a GM "deserve blame" for building an almost entirely homegrown roster, making the playoffs for the zillionth time in a row, and being poised to upset a better team in the first round. 

 

The only thing Ken Holland hasn't done is play/coach the actual game itself. 

 

Has he made some mistakes over the years?  Sure.  Have those mistakes seriously inhibited our chances of being competitive?  The results certainly suggest otherwise.

 

Or is he supposed to make no mistakes whatsoever?




#2602645 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 10:17 AM

A discussion…Ha.

 

Most of the prospects exist on many teams. i.e. Tampa Bay's T. Johnson.

 

Find me one team in the league that's had to draft from Detroit's position for the last 24 years that has better prospects. Feel free to use these as refernces

 

http://www.thehockey...sing-prospects/

 

http://www.hockeysfu...spect-rankings/

 

http://www.hockeysfu.../team-rankings/

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about overpaying for Quincey?

 

Quincey's been good.

 

Resigned Cleary twice.

 

Kept his promise. Continues to exude organizational class. No harm done on the ice.

 

Overpaid and signed Franzen and Howard.

 

Franzen is not overpaid. Howard got fair value at the time. This is all on Howard for not keeping his end of the bargain.

 

Zidlicky is struggling badly.

 

Meh. Babcock has other options if he wants to use them. Kindl, for example. Didn't give up much to acquire him.

 

Nyquist looks small and lost out there.

 

Now you're just stretching

 

Never planned for Lidstrom's and Rafalski's departures. 

 

How can you? Without tanking like Florida, you're not getting an Ekblad or Jones or Hannafin. #tankit

 

Didn't figure out a way to keep Hossa.

 

IMO, his only major mistake.

 

Stephen Weiss is on the team but doesn't dress.

 

Holland's only other mistake. Part of that is on Babcock for not using him properly.

 

Does any of that ring a bell? Bother you?

 

Just the Hossa thing.




#2602615 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 09:37 AM


Not exactly sure what you're trying to start. But thanks for posting anyways.

 

I'm not saying it's revolutionary. It'd be revolutionary for action to be taken though.

 

I'm wondering if it's time.

 

What are you trying to start?

 

What should Holland be blamed for exactly?

 

The embarrassment of prospects the Wings have stock-piled despite a top 10 pick in 24 years?




#2605816 Call Out the NHL on BS

Posted by Mckinley25 on 03 May 2015 - 10:07 PM

I know it doesn't matter, but I really wish my road jerseys were still home jerseys.
 
What a senseless change.


I like it, white is generic, let the away team be the generic team and home team show their colors.


#2605773 Call Out the NHL on BS

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 03 May 2015 - 07:57 PM

If I wasn't on mobile, I would be posting the "old man yells at cloud" picture from the Simpsons.

So just imagine that's what you're looking at right now.

5b4v39.jpg

Perfect :lol:

And since there's some sensitive people *points* up there who can't handle some levity in the thread, let me be painfully on topic in sharing my opinion on The State of the NHL:

The game is changing. The league is changing. The way the game was played 30 years ago would be a bad fit for the current situation on multiple levels. As someone mentioned before, players today are faster, bigger, and stronger than ever before. Gear is more high tech. And we have knowledge now regarding health and safety issues that was not widely available before. The league would be foolish and unprogressive if they dug their heels in and refused to develop the game in a way that addresses these challenges. Do I like every change that is made? No. But I also have no misconceptions that me raging against the machine is gonna make a rabbit's fart of a difference. "Pretend we have an audience.". We *do*. Social media has developed to a point where officials ABSOLUTELY know how fans of the game feel about each and every little thing. They just don't *care*. Because here's the kicker, and if I have to pick the one thing that bothers me the most it would be this: WE are not who the league is reaching out to. The die hard, post on a hockey team's message board, donate money to charity based on playoff performance, contemplate homicide of other players not on our team who are probably pretty nice guys otherwise type people are going to follow our team /the league *anyway*. Our $ is not the growth, because it has always *been there*. These changes, the outreach, the people pleasing (if any) will not be directed at us. It will be directed at Joe Non-hockey Schmo whose ass they're trying to pull into a seat. Trying to pull into the NHL shop. Trying to pull into buying that cable package or GCL. So the game is gonna change. Because hockey is not very accessible to people who aren't familiar with it. Do I like it? Not necessarily, but in a way that mirrors why my grandpa doesn't like it that he can't find a doctor with a name he can pronounce. There are some changes the league is looking into that I think will be beneficial like 4-4 overtime and video reviews, but to opine that the league is "changing" because it's not like it was 30 years ago is short-sighted, unnecessarily nostalgic, and unprogressive. Time marches on. Things change. And now I've forgotten my larger point.

Which is why "old man yells at cloud" sums up my feelings perfectly, and isn't as sarcastic as you thought.

f*** off.


You...should probably step away from your keyboard for a minute.


#2605756 Call Out the NHL on BS

Posted by Euro_Twins on 03 May 2015 - 07:18 PM

anchorman-i-dont-know-what.gif


#2604645 Who is the coach next season?

Posted by gcom007 on 29 April 2015 - 09:59 PM

Mike Babcock.




#2603822 ECQF Game 7 GDT : at Lightning 2, Red Wings 0 (Tampa wins series, 4-3)

Posted by barabbas16 on 29 April 2015 - 07:12 PM

Is Z even an asset out there... at all... or is he more liability at this point? Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but wow, a bad game 7 from him already.


Get out of here with that. We don't need that negativity right now.


#2601591 Tampa Bay Head Coach Jon Cooper Accuses Red Wings Of Cheating

Posted by WingsallTheway on 27 April 2015 - 04:16 PM

Zetterberg and Nyquist are the best in the league at holding the stick then diving to get a hooking/holding penalty. fact.

 

Multiple teams have complained about us cheating on faceoffs and we've even had players admit it. (Draper, i believe?)

 

We interfere with players on the rush more then anyone in the league. I've noticed recently that other teams are starting to do it more and more as well. (side note, ive also noticed other teams using the same entry into the zone on the PP as us; the one where we drop it to Dats)

 

Now I wouldn't say were flat out CHEATING, were just milking the rules to our advantage as much as possible. Its a double edged sword as we saw in the first 5 games with all the penalties.

 

Lets not be biased here, if you don't see these things happening all game your watching with a blind eye. We have experienced vets on our team and these skills have been passed down. Any sport I've ever played, I've bent the rules as much as possible to gain an advantage. Its a skill.




#2595597 2015 Round 1 Photoshop War: Tampa Bay Lightning

Posted by Smite on 18 April 2015 - 12:25 PM

from reddit

 

nxUVW3H.jpg