Jump to content

Ally's Photo


Member Since 23 Aug 2011
Offline Last Active May 05 2016 02:14 AM

#2608019 Babcock granted permission to talk to other teams

Posted by marcaractac on 15 May 2015 - 04:35 PM

im starting to hope Babs leaves just so everyone saying they want him gone finally realizes how important he is to this franchise.

#2607489 Babcock granted permission to talk to other teams

Posted by kipwinger on 13 May 2015 - 10:59 AM

Can we all stop with the political discussion.  I know that nobody means any harm, but this isn't really the place for it. 

#2604827 Things you would like to see for 2015-16 Season

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 30 April 2015 - 12:09 AM

A Stanley Cup

#2605929 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by number9 on 04 May 2015 - 02:36 PM

The point is, Cole would have been a great pickup 5-7 years ago. Zidlicky is past his "trade for" date. I'm seeing Tyler Seguin get traded to Dallas, I'm seeing James Neil go to Nashville, I'm seeing Kenny miss out on Burns a few years ago, not knowing he was even on the block, for example, not saying these players are perfect fits for the Wings, but other teams are managing to get it done. Now that we have an actual farm system and young players, trade a few picks. 

Yeah? Who did you wanna give up to get those players? A lot of assets went the other way in all those trades

#2605818 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by number9 on 03 May 2015 - 10:08 PM

Blame Holland? Absolutely.

He deserves a ton of credit for supplying us with the deepest crop of prospects in the league and great cap position.

Kudos Holland.


When you're under the microscope it doesn't matter how much good you do, one small mistake and you're "losing your touch" two small mistakes and "OMG FIRE HIM NOW."


Nobody's perfect, but Holland's closer than most.

#2605694 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Guest on 03 May 2015 - 12:15 PM

Holland deserves blame for sticking with over the hill players (Weiss, Cleary, Samuelsson, Cole, Zidlicky etc.) WAY too long and not finding the players who are on the cusp of blossoming and acquiring them. Usually by the time a player becomes a UFA, they are over halfway done with their career and we pretty much know what they are going to be. Younger players aren't worried about self-preservation and "life after hockey" and they give you 100%. A player who is worried about his health long term and his investment portfolio might give you 95% but he is always subconsciously holding something back and being afraid of getting injured. Brendan Shanahan mentioned this in an interview I remembered and I thought it was an outstanding insight. And no, I don't have a link to it. It was in a thing called a newspaper.

Okay, so all he has to do is acquire young high level players on the cusp of greatness, pay them what they're worth, fit them all in under the salary cap and give them all the ice time they want.  SMH, why didn't Kenny  Holland think of this first!?!?!  I mean, get real.  Every team just can't wait to trade blossoming stars to the Red Wings.  No doubt, too, that they'd take Cleary, Zid or a 5th round pick for said players.


Not sure how he could have stuck with Cole and Zidlicky too long as he just acquired them at the trade deadline and Cole only played 7 games before being injured.  Weiss has had injury problems since he was signed as the #1 free agent available that year and hasn't been given ample opportunity by Babs to right the ship.  So I'm sure other teams are lining up and will give the Wings all those up and coming hungry young stars for him.  Cleary was kept around too long, but he rarely cracked the line up this year, and wasn't a horrible liability when he was in.  


When the Wings won the Cup in 2002, they weren't old, they were experienced, savvy veterans who knew how to win.  

#2605633 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Holmstrom96 on 02 May 2015 - 09:24 PM


How do you define "competitive"?  Making the playoffs every year and losing in the early round?


If so, then I agree that we're competitive.


Since when do we need to measure team success against Edmonton and Buffalo?   


How do you define "competitive"?  Winning the Stanley Cup every year?


Holland's Wings are competitive.  They win more than they lose.  They go to the playoffs, EVERY YEAR.  They're just a couple players away from a championship team.


There are 30 teams.  30 GMs.


53% chance of making the playoffs

27% chance of making it to the second round

13% chance of making it to the conference finals

7% chance of making it to the cup finals

3% chance of winning the cup


Under Holland since '97, this is how we've done:

100% - Made Playoffs

64% - made it to second round

31% - made it to conference finals

25% - made it to Stanley Cup finals

19% - won Stanley Cup



It's time for people to chill.  You can't always win, but damn, we sure do win more than we don't.

#2605008 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by Nightfall on 30 April 2015 - 12:16 PM


The past was a long time ago.  Let it go.  


Wow, so our cup back in 08 and cup finals appearance in 09 was a "long time ago"?  Man, I wonder how Toronto feels with their last cup win.  Or Edmonton for that matter.  Heck, lets ask the Rangers how they feel since their last cup.

This really does show the level of entitlement that Wings fans have grown accustomed to over the course of the last 25 years.  Most teams have bandwagon fans.  The Wings have achieved a level of greatness where the bandwagon effect hasn't been measured because we have been good for so freaking long.


Now we are looking at Holland deserving blame for making the playoffs and not getting past the 2nd round since making it to the finals in 09.  When I see this attitude, I just shake my head in disbelief.  Is this really what some Wings fans have deteriorated to?  The salary cap era has made the playing field level.  No team is a slam dunk for a championship anymore. 


I will say this much.  Any new GM that comes in may have successes in some areas, but failures in others.  No GM is going to hit it out of the park on everything they do.  So while a new GM may have landed Parise and Suter for Detroit, he may have not gotten Dekeyser and wouldn't have gotten Hossa either because he wouldn't have had the money to get them all. 


I get it, Wings fans want a championship.  Its championship or bust mentality that really has to change though.  Only 1 team gets to win the Stanley Cup every year, and the favorite doesn't win it much of the time.  The sooner that we all realize that the Wings are just one of 16 teams in the playoffs and things have to go right for the team that wins it, the better off we will be.

#2605002 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by romagoth on 30 April 2015 - 12:12 PM

New to this board but been following it for awhile now.


I just can't understand the amount of hyperbole from some people regarding Holland. We are in an age of absolute parity in the NHL, this isn't the 50's and 60's when Montreal won 5 straight Cups. Making the playoffs is the goal now, because as we have seen anything can happen once the playoffs start (just look at the Kings last year). The days of winning the president's trophy and rolling through the playoffs year after year are over. Holland has made mistakes but he has still done a remarkable job with what he has been given.

So what, if we made the playoffs for 24 consecutive seasons (you don't get a trophy for it). Its not about making it to the playoffs, it's what you do in the playoffs that matters.

Go ahead and tell that to the 22 teams that didn't make the playoffs this year. I am thankful for our playoff streak, it gives me more Wings hockey into the spring/early summer while other fans are watching....baseball.

#2602696 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by BottleOfSmoke on 28 April 2015 - 11:48 AM

I was purely asking when does Holland get blamed for his bad moves. 
It's clear he doesn't get any blame for any bad moves. He can do no wrong in Detroit. 

I honestly had to check your profile to see if you were new here after reading these statements. When does Holland get blamed for his bad moves? The answer, around here anyway, is ALL THE TIME. Constantly. It inevitably leaks into 90% of our threads along with Jimmy sucking and Babs being an incompetent coach. He gets absolutely *dragged* if he so much as farts in the same room players are in because it negatively affects air quality and makes them play worse. Yours are not new sentiments, and frankly it is refreshing seeing the level-headed, rational responses.

Bottom line: Holland, like all humans ever everywhere, has made some mistakes. Some absolute stinkers. Should we replace him with someone better? Sure, I'm all about improvement. Who should we court that is clearly a better GM than Holland?


#2602659 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by kipwinger on 28 April 2015 - 10:33 AM

I'm not happy just sneaking into the playoffs. And since Nill and Bowman and Yzerman have left, we have struggled. Agree or disagree?


Lol.  Disagree.  Whole heartedly. 


Since Bowman left (2002) we've made the playoffs every single year, went to the finals twice, and won the Cup once. 


Since Yzerman left (2010) we've made the playoffs every single year.


Same with Nill (2013). 


You know who's struggled since Yzerman and Nill left?  Yzerman and Nill. 

#2602655 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 10:27 AM

I hear you. But definitely disagree completely.


Holland isn't me or you. He's supposed to be our expert.

Some of this has to fall on him.


You can't blame Howard for not being the guy. Holland needs to have recognized that. If we can trade him this offseason that'd be a big step. For a bag of pucks even. Get rid of that cap number.


Franzen is overpaid based on what he's done for us. That's all I meant. 


Knowing who is injury prone is part of the GMs job. He can't predict it, but he can make a educational bet.


Nyquist or Tatar need to be traded in my opinion this offseason. They are too similar and while their stocks are high, could land us something we really need. Like another Top 3 D man. 

You could get Yzerman to come home. You could probably get Scotty to be our GM. 


What? You can't blame Howard for playing like garbage late this season but you can blame Holland for not being able to predict the future? :lol:


Let the records show, I tried to have a discussion here, but I'm out.

#2602651 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by kipwinger on 28 April 2015 - 10:22 AM

Only on LGW does a GM "deserve blame" for building an almost entirely homegrown roster, making the playoffs for the zillionth time in a row, and being poised to upset a better team in the first round. 


The only thing Ken Holland hasn't done is play/coach the actual game itself. 


Has he made some mistakes over the years?  Sure.  Have those mistakes seriously inhibited our chances of being competitive?  The results certainly suggest otherwise.


Or is he supposed to make no mistakes whatsoever?

#2602645 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 10:17 AM

A discussion…Ha.


Most of the prospects exist on many teams. i.e. Tampa Bay's T. Johnson.


Find me one team in the league that's had to draft from Detroit's position for the last 24 years that has better prospects. Feel free to use these as refernces













How about overpaying for Quincey?


Quincey's been good.


Resigned Cleary twice.


Kept his promise. Continues to exude organizational class. No harm done on the ice.


Overpaid and signed Franzen and Howard.


Franzen is not overpaid. Howard got fair value at the time. This is all on Howard for not keeping his end of the bargain.


Zidlicky is struggling badly.


Meh. Babcock has other options if he wants to use them. Kindl, for example. Didn't give up much to acquire him.


Nyquist looks small and lost out there.


Now you're just stretching


Never planned for Lidstrom's and Rafalski's departures. 


How can you? Without tanking like Florida, you're not getting an Ekblad or Jones or Hannafin. #tankit


Didn't figure out a way to keep Hossa.


IMO, his only major mistake.


Stephen Weiss is on the team but doesn't dress.


Holland's only other mistake. Part of that is on Babcock for not using him properly.


Does any of that ring a bell? Bother you?


Just the Hossa thing.

#2602615 At What Point Does Holland Deserve Blame?

Posted by rick zombo on 28 April 2015 - 09:37 AM

Not exactly sure what you're trying to start. But thanks for posting anyways.


I'm not saying it's revolutionary. It'd be revolutionary for action to be taken though.


I'm wondering if it's time.


What are you trying to start?


What should Holland be blamed for exactly?


The embarrassment of prospects the Wings have stock-piled despite a top 10 pick in 24 years?