The way I see it, Holland is reluctant to give the younger players a chance at all. He leaves that as the last possible resort in most cases. If the Wings hadn't gone through all the injuries in 2012/13, we would not have seen Tatar, Nyquist, or Andersson at all. It would have been Helm, Bertuzzi, and Samuelsson. Lashoff wasn't in the plans, but they had to call him up and use him a lot. The Wings didn't seem to have any plans on using DeKeyser when they signed him, he was set to be GR-bound after a few days, but an opening presented itself and he had practiced well. In 13/14, we would not have seen Sheahan, Jurco, or Glendening at all, Nyquist may have been buried in the minors all season, and Tatar, Andersson, DeKeyser, and Lashoff wouldn't have had their previous experience. This summer, Almquist is leaving for the KHL without having a chance to show whether he is or isn't capable of playing in the NHL. Callahan and Ferraro are out of waiver exemptions and have 1 and 4 NHL games, respectively, on their resumes.
Lately, I think Holland's moves are the comfortable ones for him, not the "right" moves. I'll skip the misery of the 2012 off-season, but that wasn't his only shortcoming. He gave up a 2nd-round pick, a valued prospect, and a depth forward in exchange for Legwand, who turned out to be a rental... yes, they needed a center for a few games, but he ended up being a 4th-line winger as soon as those centers started to come back. was it worth both the pick and the prospect? That trade helped keep the playoff streak alive, so maybe it was worth it financially and for pride, but it gives them two less pieces with which to build. Re-signing Bertuzzi back when he did, in February 2012, was poorly timed IMO, but again, it's someone Holland was comfortable with. Keeping Cleary around last year, when he'd been awful for 2 seasons and the club had no roster or payroll space to do so, was a bad move... and now they're talking about ANOTHER contract? Keeping Quincey was a knee-jerk reaction to failing on every free agent they talked to. Yes, it "buys time" for either Holland to make another move (he won't) or for the prospect D to develop a little more, but unless there's a corresponding move where Kindl is shipped out of town, it's not a good deal.
I don't think there will be an upswing this year. A healthy Datsyuk and Zetterberg should help, but if you look at it, last year, with both in the lineup earlier in the year, the Wings weren't in a playoff position. It's after Datsyuk went out that they started to make their push, and solidified that position with Zetterberg out also. They did that on the shoulders of a motivated Franzen (after someone pissed him off with a cheapshot) and the young guys that Holland didn't want in Detroit.
Unless a move, or moves, are made later in the summer, we're looking at almost exactly the same roster that lost to Boston in 5 games, struggled to score, and couldn't handle the better opponent. There are no additions, only subtractions--Legwand, Bertuzzi, and possibly Alfredsson and Cleary. How is that inspiring at all?
Sometimes different is all it takes. New voice, fresh blood, different look.
Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results? That's the definition of insanity.
Josh, you are spot on. All those young players that Holland is so reluctant to trade, he didn't want in detroit. He was FORCED to call them up and play them because all of his UFA signing and guys he gave long tern deals to got hurt.
So many want to blame the training staff for our injuries, why not to guy that brought in a bunch of injury prone players? How long has Betr had a bad back? hank? Will Helm ever play more than 70 games again? Sammy the walking MASH ward, etc...... Add in the age of these guys, no wonder why we have 3 seasons in a row filled with injuries. Who put together this roster?
I have said it for 2 years, either build a team for one or 2 more serious runs at the Cup for D and Z, or get rid of the old crap and rebuild. We are doing neither. Which would be more exciting right now? making the PO's and losing in the 1st round, or drafting McDavid? Which would be better for the 2020 season? It isn't possible to do both.....
2. I can handle not landing any UFA's. That is always a crap shoot. You can wine and dine those guys, throw lots of years and money at them, and they still may go somewhere else.
3. BUT resigning Qunicey? Terrible.
4. Holland needs to make a major move by August 1 to flip this around.
5. Those expecting us to be better because "we are healthy", please wake up and join the real world. We haven't been healthy in 3 seasons now. Most of the same old and injury prone players are coming back. Man games lost will not change much.
6. The last 3 years have produced worse winning % each year. 11/12 we won 43 games, just over 50%. in 12/13 we won 24-50%, this last season we won 39 just under 50%. That is trending the wrong way.
I don't get why so many seem to think this would be a better signing than Niskanen. Erhoff turns 32 in about a week. he isn't physical at all, average defensively, and hasn't been great offensively either. yes some of that is because of playing with Buff, but overall just average. he is at the age where he is just leaving what should have been the prime years of his career.
Erhoff 32, 6-2/195 LHed, on a good team good for 35-40 points per season, going to make 5+ million and I am sure he is going to be looking for at least 4 years, maybe 5.
Niskanen 27 6-0/210 RHed, on a good team good for 40+ points, strong in his own end, and going to be looking for 6 million on a max term-7 years.
Now if we don't get Niskanen then going after erhoff makes some sense. he is an upgrade over quincy. But at this point he is clearly a second option.
This is/was a bad prospect pool and everyone knew this going in. It is not a good draft at all. last year was great, next year is good. This year is below average. That is not on Holland. he took a very good player at 15 that should end up somewhere between Legwand and kesler. Legwand is 6-2/205 and scores 15 g 40 points per year. Kesler is 6-2/205 and puts up 25 g and 60 points per year. larkin will be in that range somewhere.
Naw, if 2 out the 3 that we are talking about turn into players as good as Nickasen is or better, that would be a major surprise. But lets say they do. 2 years from now we are heading into datsyuks last year. is it possible we could need a new top C? How do you get guys like that? Draft/trade/sign UFA's. Having 8, 9, 10 NHL caliber Dmen is a positive thing. Not a negative.
As for those worrying about the young Dmen, don't. Yes Oullett, Sproul, and Marchenko only have 2 years that they can go down to GR without passing waivers. But what is the chance that all 3 turn out? About 0. Plus 2 years from now Kronwall will be 36. His NTC is also gone. Lashoff is our 7th as of today. That makes 2 possible spots right there. Not to mention since when is having to much talent a bad thing? maybe 1 or 2 get moved to fill another whole on the roster. There is no down side here.
I am not sure why so many are down on Niskanen. he is 27, a RHed shot, and is very good defensively. For the last 6 seasons, he has been better than Kronwall defensively in 5 on 5 play. he has been developing offensively as well. At 27 years of age a 7 year deal brings him to 34 or the same age that kronwall turns this year. Adding guy like Niskenan makes our D better for each pair. having a guy like Niskanen to pair with Dekeyser to form a top pair. Niskanen is a very solid 2/3. Many of us believe that Dekeyser is turning into a 1/2. That makes a true top pair and allows Kornwall and either Ericsson or Smith to form a solid/great 2nd pair. That would make Kronwell/Ericsson better. Thus our whole D becomes better.
I'm not sure what bothers me most about your posts... The topic for discussion is non-stimulating, your logic is fragile, and your writing style is annoyingly conversational and hard to follow.
If you're going to develop a theory around the need for top-10 picks to be on your team in order to win a cup, then at least make an effort. This is pretty half-assed.
Besides, by looking back the past 20 years, you're comparing the salary cap era and the pre-salary cap era.
You're also comparing a North America-centric draft era to an ever increasing global system. Do you think Datsyuk would have gone at 171 if he were available in the 2014 draft? Maybe you could start a new topic about that.
Are you suggesting we tank it for a couple years? Relive the 80s? Get the next Yzerman? Are you saying we should package our prospects for a top-10 pick with a s***ty contract? Pay an inflated rate for a top-10 FA? I don't get what you're saying.
If you're going to try to be thought-provoking and philosophical with your threads, please spend more than 5 minutes writing them.
If people don't like my opinions, I couldn't care less. We do all have one thing in common: We want the RW's to win SC's. That simple. The fact is our record has gotten worse every year for the past 4 seasons. The answer being provided to us is: bring everyone back and expect better results. Nothing works like that.
For three years now we have been ravaged by injuries. So what is our answer? Bring back more of the same old broken down players that just don't have it any more and expect different results. Before the puck even drops we already have 100 man games lost to injuries. The combo of datsyuk, Z, Alfie, Franzen, Helm, and Alfie once it is official will combine to miss 100 games. At some point the GM needs to be held accountable for the injuries due to the fact he is the one bringing in broken down bodies. if Cleary returns there is another 20+ man games lost. That is before any of the other players get hurt which of course some will. So here we are on June 24th and we can expect another 200 man games lost do to injury and we are not even to training camp yet. Great times to be a Red Wing Fan! Maybe a name change is in order. The Red Cross Wings..........
One thing this story didn't cover is how much value prospects have in trade. In the cap era CHEAP young talent is gold. Prospects have great value, even though most never turn out. using the LAK as an example, yes they have drafted and developed well, but they have also traded well and sign key UFA's. Half of their team was not drafted by the Kings: Carter, Richards, Williams, gaborik (spelling), Greene, Mitchell, Muzzin, etc... were all picked up via trade and UFA signings-mostly trade. Yes their big name younger stars were all drafted: Kopitar, Doughtry, Quick, etc... Several of which were top 10 picks in their respective years.
Point is, there is no one way to build a team. You need to use all avenues to build a winner.