Richdg

O6 and Euro6?  Um...you think the travel is bad now.  Try that commute.

I'll pass.

Some version of that will happen. Just a matter of when. Going to Europe isn't that bad. yes they trips will be 2 weeks long, but still it will work. BTW the Super series in Rugby has worse travel. they go for 3-4 weeks at a time. back to the point, you also do it unbalanced. Play the team on your continent say 45-50 times, then go overseas for 2 trips for another 12 games, then have them come to you home. So really only 2 long trips per team.

Stall better than Abdelakader? You are kidding right? you do realize that Justin outscored Stall this season right? Justin-25 is just entering what should be his best years. Stall 29 has been at the peak of his career.

Yes there is risk here, but if some forward thinking types get involved, there could be some huge upsides. For example, how about a super league? the original 6 in NA and 6 in Europe all in the same league? think about it, how big would that be. The first truely international professional league.

yes the long contracts will come to an end. There are several and all are bad. Go look at franzen or Dipatro (spelling). IIRC Franzen-33 has 8 years left on his contract. bad bad deal.
last thought. bettmen was hired by the owners. they like him. he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Just because the Red Wings website lists him as a Winger doesn't override the fact that he played center almost all season. If you watched the games you'd know this.

  

You keep trying to move the goal posts....I'm not saying he's going to be an elite player in the league, I think he'll be a good 3rd line player. He's developing better than Abdelkader has and Abby is already an NHL player. Sounds like you're already conceding he'll be more than a career minor leaguer.



This is your problem right here, if they aren't the next Claude Giroux or Pavel Datsyuk they are all the same and they suck...nothing more than filler etc.
Not every draft pick is going to be a superstar, and you will never have a team full of them, these "journeymen" players are integral to every team in the league.

If you really think Tatar doesn't have any more offensive upside than Mursak or especially Emmerton then I don't know what to say other than...Don't ever go into scouting.

So let me get this straight. You, some unkown poster on an opinion forum knows better than the Offical Red Wings site? Ok. Cool. Just wanted to be clear.

I am not moving any post whatsoever. Abby is a much better player than tatar all teh way around. he is bigger, faster, tougher, and if a true 3rd/4th line guy. tatar is not. Never will be. He is but one of many faceless organizational players that every team has. he has no trade value and he will never amount to anything at the next level. Doesn't mean he doesn't work or is a bad guy, it only means he isn't good enough.

Please stop with the stupid "if you ever watched" comments. They just make you look silly. I have been watching the RW since before you were a gleem in your daddy's eye. I went to games at Olympia. Watched the Wings on PASS. The RW's are not something new to me. Heck I look back at the days when the RW were lucky to win 20 games per year. it hurts. Don't ever want to see it again.

Just a few things.

1. Rumors are Suter and parise will be over 7.5 million each.

2. Ericsson has a no trade clause. So does Burt and Dat btw....


3. Helm and Abdelkader will both be around 2 million. Somewhere in the 1.8-2.2 range for each.

4. Quincy will be 3.5 million or more.

5. I do hope that Nicky and Hommer call it a career so we all can move on.

If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.

Really?
http://redwings.nhl.....htm?id=8468083

what does that link say? If I understand English correctly it says Zetterberg is a LW. he was a LW on Dat's line and he was the LW on Filppula's line. Granted he did take faceoffs. So what. He always has.

I guess time will tell which of us is right.

There aren't too many career minor leaguers who lead their team in scoring over 2 seasons.

Good prospects don't Play in the AHL for 3 years. 1 (if that long) and done. BTW, just to compare, Abdelakter had 52 points in his only full season in GR. So from a numbers alone standpoint, Tatar is Abdelakader offensively but 3 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter.

Tatar is a good prospect a slightly bigger and
Much faster version of hudler but better defensively.  Tatar might not break 65 points in the NHL but at worst he'll be a 40 point player that will hustle his ass off and bring a great attitude to the rink.  we knew when we drafted him he was going to have to wait a while to physically mature and polish his defensive game which he focussed on this season which is why his offense remained around the same.  Next year he improves offensive game and still carries his new found defensive game with him.   I do think with all our soon to be playing prospects that are too smal someone or More then one needs to be moved.  I also think we need to jettison a few of our current bottom six players we have too many redundant players.

Tatar, Emmerton, Muarsk, etc..... are all the same guy. yes they work hard. But just not enough of any one thing to set them apart from a dozen others. These are not really prospects. They are filler. Which yes in the day of a salary cap, you need. But none of these guys are the next stars of our team. We lack those in our youth. Nothing there but journeymen.

If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.

I have seen Tatar play 18 or so games the past couple years IN GR. He is nothing more than filler. He is going to be a career minor leaguer that gets calls up to9 fill in when a real NHL player gets hurt. That is all he is.

58 pts is in the top 25 in the AHL. Neither Emmerton or Mursak have scored anywhere near that in their time in the AHL. The kid is only 22 years old and can easily bulk up, but I don't seem him playing on the checking line anyways.

If we have to lose someone to waivers, I'd rather keep him than I would Emmerton or Mursak.

Yes, plays a full season and can't even get to 60 points in the minors. Everyone that has any talent gets called up, which is way he plays the whole season there. As for bulking up, there is nothing he can do that will make him 6-2/205 which is the norm in the NHL for 2012. Those are the league avergaes-rounded off of course. Tatar is a nothing prospect. We are full of guys like him, and yet can't make any trades. You think there is a relationship there? Nobody wants our "propsects" other the Smith who we better not trade. Speedy Euor forwards that are under 6ft and less than 200 pounds are a dime a dozen. Every team has them. Yes they can help your AHL team, but most are far to small to help at the NHL level.

I agree we need to an upgrade over Emmerton, and we'll get it...Abdelkader.  Next year our centers will be Dats, Z, Helm, Abby.  Gaustad is not a terrible hockey player, no doubt about it.  But he's terribly over priced for what he brings, especially considering he'll never crack our top three center positions.  Even if he makes the same money as he did this year, that's still 2.5 million on our forth line.  As for the other guys, I absolutely love Jason Arnott, but he's about a zillion years old and I don't see that any of the rest are any better than Abby.  In my opinion we're all set at center, we've got to improve on the wings.  Again, just my opinion and you're welcome to yours as well.  

p.s. I know you weren't treating Gaustad as the messiah, your comment was just the most recent in months worth of comments, stemming back to the deadline, heralding him as some sort of missing link on this team.  I didn't mean to make it seem like my criticism was pointed directly at you alone.

Zetterberg didn't even play C this year very often. he was the wing on Filppula's line. Moving him away from Dat hurt both.

How would we lose both Emmerton and Mursak by re-signing Holmstrom?


Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Parise, Franzen, Filppula, Nyquist, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Miller, Helm, Abdelkader, Eaves, Mursak, Holmstrom
Lidstrom, Kronwall, Quincey, Ericsson, White, Smith, Kindl
Howard, MacDonald


23 roster spots, 14 forwards, 7 defenceman and 2 goalies.

Like I said, I'm not a big Homer fan at this point in his career, but even without the connection to Lidstom, I'd prefer him to Emmerton. I doubt we'd even lose him to waivers, he'd probably clear them with ease. There is also a chance Eaves will be on LTIR which would give us an extra roster spot to work with.

My biggest question is whether Tatar has any waivers exemption years left. I wouldn't want to lose him for nothing after watching his performance at the WHC.

Tatar????? Surely you jest. Just we we need....Another 5-10/180 forward that doesn't even excell at GR. 58 points in the minors is nothing to get worked upabout. He gets pushed all over the ice. The WC's are not the NHL. hell half the best players for each country are not even there. Plus the wider ice helps a smaller guy like him.

It is time to part ways with Hommer. To old, costs to much money, and is a liability other than on the PP in front of the net. How do you keep him just for the PP? If we do, then we can't roll 4 lines.......

Could we have used more goals from the top 6?...sure, but it isn't why we lost.
You need more than your top 2 lines to win a playoff series as Nashville showed us. They got over 50% of their scoring from their bottom 6
The Wings scored 248 goals this year

132 came from the top 6 for 53%.of their goals
the defence contributed 49 for 20%
the bottom 6 kicked in 67 for 27%


In the playoffs

The top 6 accounted for 67% of scoring
The defence 11%
and the bottom 6 contributed 22%

.Nashville's bottom 6 shredded our bottom 6 both offensively and defensively, also the scoring from our defence disappeared. That is the reason we lost the series.

Our top four, who make 20+ million collectively scored 2 freaking goals! Yes scoring in the playoffs is hard to do. But how does the series change if we have 5 more goals? just 5 and we win the series. Yes those goals could have come from many different sources. but if you really are a top player, amking top money, put the damn puck in the net! Who is supposed to lead the team? The guys making 1 million or less, or the guys making 6 million or more? datsyuk makes over 6 million and scored 0 goals. Burt makes 4 million scored 0 goals. Z makes over 6 million scored 1 goal. Franzen makes 4 million scored 1 goal. This is/was the problem. Now, the part we don't know, as I have said before, is this a trend or a one off? We don't know. They were all healthy. That we do know. This could be a huge problem. 4 guys, all signed for at least 2 more years to big money, that are not able to play like they are paid. 2 of them-datsyuk and Burt have no trade clauses.

BTW, 67% of zero is zero. So scoring 67% of the goals, when we didn't score isn't saying much. Yes I do expect big money to produce. Otherwise we are wasting money.

The top 2 lines accounted for 67% of our goals in the Nashville series. The bottom 6 and defence were why we lost that series.

That is just laughable. Our top 6 forwards: datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Burt, Filppula, and Hudler had a grand total of 6 goals in 5 games. 6!!!!!! If that is the best those 6 are going to do we are screwed! Heck Hudler had 2 and Filppula had 2. So for the real big money guys: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Burt, and franzen it is even worse. Those 4 combined for 2 goals in 5 games. These are guys that should score about every 3rd game. In a 5 game series their career averages show they should have scored 8-10 goals as a group. This is why we lost. There is no debate about it.

Our postseason woes stem from a collection of interrelated problems. That was my main point.

Example: our forward corps.

The top two lines are for scoring. The bottom two lines are for everything else, e.g. wearing down the opposition through physical play. If the bottom 6 is struggling to get the job done, the top 6 will, in turn, struggle to get its job done. Babcock recently rated Helm as one of the league's best third-line centers. Do the math.

I agree, and our top 2 lines didn't score. It is the why that there is discusion. Where they tired? They were not hurt, so why? yes we can disagree on the reasons. BTW.... Z, Franzen, and Filppula are scoring at the WC's. Datsyuk is not. True, it has only been 4 games. But the others are all better than a point per game. Datsyuk has 1 point in 4 games.

One other thing to keep in mind. This year the FA class is not deep. Most of the talent-unless it gets resigned over the next 6 weeks is on the D. next years FA class-again as of today pending future signings is very strong with big young forwards. This will be a factor in what we do. There are several teams with 2+ big young star forwards hitting FA next season. Pitt-Crosby and Staal, the Ducks with Perry and getslaz (spelling) are 2 examples of this. They MAY-key word, not be able to keep both. Phones should be ringing....