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Member Since 03 May 2012
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#2614871 The Bowman Effect

Posted by Richdg on 16 June 2015 - 09:51 PM

Your memory isn't as good as you think. Bowman became coach in 93-94. Prior to that we had only been good for 2 years. (Before that we were mostly a .500 team or worse.) This notion that we were some regular-season powerhouse that fell short in the playoffs before Scotty saved us is false. We got upset in the second round by a Chicago team that ended up going to the finals, then lost in 7 games in the first round to a Toronto that was pretty much just as good as we were. The first three seasons with Bowman were all bigger upsets than anything that happened prior.


Secondly; Konstantinov, McCarty, Lapointe, Pushor, and Ward were all acquired prior to Bowman. Draper came a couple weeks after, but Bowman didn't become co-GM until the next season. Ramsey wasn't part of our Cup teams. We also got rid of Ciccarelli, Drake, Burr, and Probert. It's not like Scotty came in, added "toughness", and then Cups happened. Bowman, as a coach, deserves plenty of credit for our Cups. The commitment to team defense won us the Cups, not any kind of grit.


As for the current team: Abby, Helm, Sheahan, Miller, Glendening, Andersson, and Ferraro. Maybe could include Jurco. Prospects Callahan, Bertuzzi, Nastasiuk, and I'd say AA and Larkin could be called gritty to some extent. Traded for Cole. Maybe lacking a bit on defense, but Quincey, Ericsson, and Smith aren't exactly soft (nor are Kronwall and Dekeyser for that matter).


The general talent level of our team has declined. That's why we aren't as good, not because we're too soft. If anything, we're much more gritty now than we were from '02-09.

What are you talking about? Prior to Bowman coming we were a PO team every year but won. Had won multiple Division crowns and made deep runs in the PO's. have you forgotten the back to back defeats to the oilers in the mid/late 80's in the CF's?

Ramsey was on our roster in 96/97, it was his last year. he was also on the 95 team that lost to the devils. But of course you know all of this. You are just refusing to fact reality. Bowman was the reason we became a Cup team. Period. The skill was there before him, but the Cups came with him. holland was handed a loaded team. Had a HOF coach running things. Talking about an easy job, he had it. Since Bowman and our stars have left we have gotten worse year after year. UFA's don't come anymore and Holland isn't making trades. So what happens in the future? I bet we miss the PO's soon. Could well be this year baring some major moves. That is on Holland and only Holland. now can he change the direction of the team? yes. Will he? Stay tuned......

#2614804 The Bowman Effect

Posted by Richdg on 16 June 2015 - 02:34 PM

In many ways the RW's under Holland have returned to the days of the RW's under Murray. Skilled-yes. Able to put up points? yes. Winning Cups? No. Prior to Bowman coming on board we had tons of skilled guys that could skate. Stevie and Feds putting up 120+ point seasons. winning 55+ games per year. yet in the PO's when the refs look the other way we lost every year. Bowman changed that. Yes we still had skill, but he was the reason we added grit, size, toughness, and most importantly-everyone played D. feds become a 80 point guy and great defensive f'd. Stevie was threated with a trade if he didn't start to back check. Rouse, ramsey, Vladdy, fetisov were all added the the BL for toughness. Mccarty, lapointe, ward, Pushor, were all added through the ranks. then to put the bow on the top, we added the best POWER FORWARD in the game at the time. Not to mention smart and cheap moves for guys like Draper, Maltby, and Kocur. This group won us 3 cups. That is 12 guys who all brought grit to our lineup. That is over 50% of the roster. Do we have even 3 guys that can compare to those 12? No. those players were all Bowman's guys. he wanted them all, asked for them by name publicly. Jimmy D went out and got them. Don't forget Murphy to this group! LOL

Today, those are the guys that Holland wants to trade away. he doesn't want the gritty players that do the dirty work. But look deeper. it isn't about fighting. very few of those guys did any. or rarely did. But they were veteran guys with leadershop, experience, toughness, and many were no longer as skilled as they once were.

All of the teams that win the SC every year have skilled players, you can't win without them. But they also have toughness and grit. They may not fight, but no one does in the PO's. They all have guys that go to the corners and bang away, guys that put the body on the other teams D, most have guys that work the front of the nets as well. We don't do those things and haven't in several years. which is way we haven't come close to a SC in several years. The last 2 years we had to win our last game of the regular season to even make the PO's. Then a 1st round exit.

Now if we can see this, I am sure kenny can. The question remains, as it has been asked for several years now: What is kenny going to do about it? To date he hasn't done much. The why is the unknown.

#2613284 What changes do you think we'll see with Blashill?

Posted by Richdg on 05 June 2015 - 04:10 PM

end of the streak.... barely making it with the best coach in hockey. I like Blashill but he isn't as good as babcock at this point in time. I expect a step back.

#2613280 Time for an offer sheet?

Posted by Richdg on 05 June 2015 - 04:04 PM


Is Hamilton really worth $7M?  Blows my mind an RFA is commanding this type of money.  I knew he was good, but not *that* good.

Petry just got 5.5 million per to resign. Hamilton is a much better player and younger than Petry. One is a 25 point per year RHed D and the other is a 40+ point per year RHed D. 6 years difference in age as well. No one is worth it, but that is the market.

With the expected cap increase and LTIR for Savard, they'll have about $10-11M in space. Tight but I still bet they'd match. Most of the spots they have to fill can be filled cheaply. Plus they could opt to move Lucic and/or Eriksson.


Moot point though, as we do not have our 3rd rounder in 2016. We'd have to trade for that pick back (not just any third, our own) before we could even submit an offer.

That is correct. Holland has 25 days to work out a deal with NJ to get our 2016 pick back. That is all it would take. A Tvrdon for the pick type of deal should make it happen.


But lets dream for a minute.....






That is a very good BL corp and we would still have more BL prospects coming and all of our best F prospects. Not to mention about 10 million more in cap space after trading KFQ.

#2610044 Dylan Larkin turning pro... will play for GR immediately

Posted by Richdg on 25 May 2015 - 12:50 PM


I disagree. He won't make the team out of camp, but we might seem him join the team later in the season, possibly as a winger. He's an exceptional skater; he plays a remarkably mature, rounded 200-foot game; he's got a good frame for an 18-year-old; and his vision, smarts, hockey IQ, playmaking ability are all commendable. While NCAA hockey isn't AHL hockey, killing it as a freshman like Larkin did is extremely impressive and bodes well for his adjustment to the pro game. This is a kid who just played for the USA in the IIHF World Championship as an 18-year-old, the only other 18-year-old on the roster being Jack Eichel. This is a kid without any true holes in his game or even areas of concern. He's not a project. He has to bulk up, has to get used to the grind of the pro schedule, has to make all the necessary adjustments that every player in his situation has to make - but I don't think the adjustment period will be a long one, maybe not even a full season. This is one of the ten best NHL prospects.

Going from a 35-40 game college schedule to a 75-80 game pro schedule is a huge step. Going from amatuer hockey to pro hockey is another huge step-something that AA and Mantha just reminded us. Both tore up junior last year and neither even scored 20 goals this year for GR. It takes time for guys to develop. The question is, how much? Could all 3 make it to detroit next year? yes. But I am not going to hold my breath. All should get there but all have things to do before they make it. Larkin needs to add 20 pounds of muscle. That is hard to do in one summer. Come 2016 he should be ready. Also, there is no need to rush him. We have a ton of C already: Datsyuk, Z, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening, Abby, Andersson, etc... are all natural C men. Even if Weiss is moved/cut we still have 6 on the team.

#2609478 Dylan Larkin turning pro... will play for GR immediately

Posted by Richdg on 21 May 2015 - 02:39 PM

Glad he is begining his pro hockey career. Give him a nice taste of what it is like. But let's not go overboard. The step from amatuer hocey to pro hockey is huge. Mantha reminded us of that agian this year. Let him develop on his pace, not ours as fans. If he goes to GR and dominates, GREAT! If it takes him a season or 2 to develop, no problem.

#2609263 Coaching Search Thread a.k.a. the Jeff Blashill Thread

Posted by Richdg on 20 May 2015 - 10:41 PM

Yes it is a 99% chance that Blashill is next. That could be good or bad. Never been a NHL head coach. The only other guy of interest would be Dan Bylsma-another Michigan guy with a career winning % of .628 which is better than Babcock (.620)! Both guys are in their early 40's.


Now I do have a question for those that question what Babs meant to this team. How many guys were under acheiving? Very few. Most of our players were play at or above their talent levels. Yes Franzen, Smith, and Jurco can and should be doing more, but that is it. Now keep in mind we had to win our last 1 or 2 games each of the last few years to even make the playoffs. That was due to Babs. he got us there. Can the next coach-whomever it ends up being, keep doing that?

#2607141 Free agents this off season

Posted by Richdg on 11 May 2015 - 09:53 AM

Those trades happened ages ago and besides a few of them none were big names that were big cornerstones in teams winning cups

All the teams that won the cups drafted the core guys .... And teams haven't been trading big name stars for years now and no big name ufa guys have been hitting the market for years as well

Times have changed man ... We signed weiss and traded for cole and zidlicky didn't work

If your willing to trade mantha athanasiou larkin holmstrom mrazek bertuzzi for non elite stars who will be ufa's in 3 years then I thank f***en god your not our gm

Alot of utube who had great junior careers never produced at the nhl level ... A few 60 pt seasons in Florida was nothing to get excited about when we landed him , injury or not

Sorry if I pissed you off with the idiots stuff but I got a lot worse s*** from people when I hated the signing when it happend

And as for vermette yes there's more to a players game than points but I'm pretty sure the hawks didn't get him to not produce on the scoresheet just like the rangers did with yandle ... When you give up a high price they did for a player I'm sure there expecting points as well as good overall play

Yes those trades happened BEFORE each of those teams won the SC. Its called building a team. Something we haven't been doing. We have been static for years now. The UFA market is dead, which means we have to trade and draft. Just drafting isn't enough. Many of those guys were also key players on their teams to win. Carter for example is LAK best and most consistant offensive threat. Chara, Boychek, and seidenberg are/were bostons top 3 Dmen. Sharp, Hossa, and Versteeg were dominate players for the Blackhawks. The Pens were the only team with limited outside players on their team. Of course we haven't talked about the Rangers yet. But they haven't won a cup yet either.....

#2607076 2015 Draft

Posted by Richdg on 10 May 2015 - 09:20 PM




Meloche sounds intriguing...

He would be the D I would take. While we have lots of D prospects, only 3 are RHed and one of those Marchenko should be in Detroit next season. As Zidlicky reminded everyone, having RHed Dmen on the point does matter.

#2606636 DRW Free Agents / Salary Thread

Posted by Richdg on 07 May 2015 - 09:09 PM

Babcock is defense first coach. There is a reason for the saying "defense wins championships". because it is true. If the other team doesn't score you have greatly increased your chances to win. His focis is winning game 2-1 or 1-0. Go back the this past Olympics. Team full of the worlds best players and they played a puck control defense first system.

This was also Bowman's system. The left wing lock is all about reducing scoring. he threatened to tradeStevie Y if he didn't start to play d. Federov was the same way. Which is why he went from 120 point seasons to 80 point seasons.

Now if you are playing a defensive system to win, wouldn't you want to play the best defensive forwards? yes. Why have Z and Dat been stars for so long? Yes they score, but they are great defensively.

Now look at our prospects and their development. What part of the game takes the longest to develop? defense. What have most on this site complianed about? Our prospects "overripening" in the minors. What are they learning to do? It isn't offense, it is D. That is Babs/Hollands plan. Play good D or don't play here. IE Hudler and many others.

#2606019 Jim Devellano on Mantha's play: "Very disappointing"

Posted by Richdg on 04 May 2015 - 09:12 PM

Calling him out like that is 1. Unnecessary and 2. Embarrassing guy came back after a broken leg and went into his first pro season. Heck I'd trade Nyquist, Tatar before trading Mantha guy has the size and skill to become a power forward.

True, but we have to remember. Kenny prefers his forwards to be 5-10/180 and from docile socialist countries.......LOL. This makes it easier for him to make a trade for a 37+ year old pending UFA.......

#2578966 Anthony Mantha

Posted by Richdg on 05 March 2015 - 11:03 AM

The light looks to finally be on. mantha has scored in 3 of his last 4 games with the griffins. 4 points in that stretch. Has 12 goals and a good chance to get to 20 in his first year of pro hockey. Not a bad start. Not the explosive start we all wished for, but solid none the less.

#2568656 2/5 GDT - Red Wings 3 at Avalanche 0

Posted by Richdg on 05 February 2015 - 09:18 PM

A fight! Brings back such good memories..........

#2568091 2015 Draft

Posted by Richdg on 03 February 2015 - 08:32 PM

Yes we drafted a lot of F's last year. But it is still a bit more of a need than D. But we also have to keep value in mind. Most of the F's in the area of the draft we should be picking seem to have higher upsides than the Dmen do.

No of course if we move up or down in the order that can and will impact things. Same is true with trades. if we have to move say 2 of our top D prospects to pick up a top 4 RHed D, that changes the needs overnight. The pick could also be moved-even though Holland says he will not.


Another thing to keep in mind is the overall quality of the draft. Not as good as 2013 was equal-maybe slightly better than 2014, but 2016 looks to be better than this year.

If we go forward 5-6 years, what would be the best possible lineup?





McKee (I know....)-Glendening-Abby

Miller-Little Tuzzi









#2557757 Andreas Athanasiou

Posted by Richdg on 19 December 2014 - 08:03 PM

AA is out with a broken jaw....... for a while.