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Member Since 04 May 2012
Offline Last Active Jun 27 2015 03:07 AM

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In Topic: The Bowman Effect

20 June 2015 - 10:29 PM


Overrated a bit? Perhaps. Most certainly by some here. But the opportunistic angle I don't hold against him.


What's wrong with the best teams wanting the best coach?


You want to land the best coach? You better have a good team.


If you're the best coach, you want to coach the best team.


It's pretty simple to me. I'd call it a luxury of being the among the best in the business for a long time more than I'd characterize it as opportunistic.



I was just pointing out that he's not the type of guy who can build a team. He is, however fantastic at taking an assembled team and getting the most out of them. 


Bowman is often treated as a god, whose mere presence within an organization will bring them cups. (Call it the Bowman effect). When in reality he just always picked the team that was most likely to be the next big winners and attached his cart to that horse. He's a fantastic coach, but he's no god.

In Topic: The Bowman Effect

20 June 2015 - 10:19 PM


I don't understand your hatred for Bowman.  After 4 stellar years of coaching the Blues the Canadiens hired him where he won 5 cups.  They brought him in for a reason, because he brings the best out of the team and knows how to make them win.  Red Wings would win zero Cups had Bowman not shown up. 


As a GM what exactly did he do to you FlashyG?  How did this man hurt you so much?


When I think of 'among worst GM' I think along the lines of Mike Milbury... there's just no chance Bowman is so terrible, he wouldn't have the success he did if he was terrible at personnel changes. 


I don't hate Bowman, I think he's the greatest coach in NHL history. As a GM however he was bad, very bad. 

I didn't say he was the worst though, there are many GM's who were even worse than he was, but that doesn't make his record as a GM any better.


He won 5 cups with Montreal, but he had no part in building those teams. Sam Pollock built them, and the core of those teams were in place before Bowman took over as coach. 


With the Wings Bowman had to be stripped of his GM powers because he was attempting to trade Yzerman to Ottawa for Alexei Yashin. He played a huge role in their success in his time here, but as a coach, not as a builder of the teams, that credit should go to Jim Devellano, Jim Nill, Bryan Murray, Hakan Andersson and most of all Ken Holland.

In Topic: Will Wings Revisit Signing Phaneuf?

19 June 2015 - 08:26 PM

Khan says Wings are no longer interested in Phaneuf.  I'm betting Babcock nixed any deal, like most of us believed he would.


It was probably Babcock that wanted him all along. He seems like Babs type of guy.


It will be interesting to see if the Leafs still trade him elsewhere or if he stays in Toronto.

In Topic: The Bowman Effect

18 June 2015 - 08:21 PM


Bowman's first coaching job was with the newly created St. Louis Blues, in the first 3 years of the Blues existance and the first 3 years of Bowman's coaching them, he took them to the Stanley Cup Finals THREE YEARS IN A ROW.


They did this with expansion draft players and a 40 year old goalie.  This is one of the most astonishing coaching performances ever, and you fail to even recognize these were Stanley Cup Finals, 3 of them as a rookie coach with a rookie team.


But when you say he's the most overrated person in NHL history, with the fact that in the 48 years in the NHL, 19 of them have been in the Finals... I wonder if maybe you're thinking of Drayson Bowman... no maybe Ralph Bowman?  Are you even talking about hockey?


The Blues were in a conference made up of ALL expansion teams. Every team they competed against to make the finals were also made up of guys from an expansion draft.


His teams did not win a single game in any of those 3 finals against non expansion teams.


I'm not sure being the best of the terrible teams in the league constitutes the most astonishing coaching performance ever.


As a coach I'd agree that Scotty is the best the game has ever seen, as a GM he was among the worst I've ever seen though and its the credit he gets as a "Builder" that makes me call him the most overrated person in hockey history.

In Topic: The Bowman Effect

18 June 2015 - 04:33 PM


He was in charge of the Blues when the NHL first expanded and built a team that immediately won the new conference for the first few years.  He has little to do with the Hawks' success though


He was an assistant coach with the Blues when they came into the league and got promoted to head coach when the GM/Head coach quit, he had nothing to do with building the Blues and its not like the Blues were some sort of giant success story.


They played in a conference where every single team was an expansion team and they were swept every time they faced a team from the Original 6 conference.


 He did coach them well, but his prowess as a coach has never been questioned

Anyone that tries to down play Bowman is a complete fool. he wins championships. has done so his entire career. the teams that he has taken over didn't win before he arrived, and stopped winning after he left. it really is that simple.

Yes his son is also a very good hockey man. Where do you think he learned that? Who helped him get the job? Who do you think he turns to for advise when deciding what players to keep vs let go? This is simple stuff.


Bowman jumped ship from St. Louis to Montreal, who had won 5 of the previous 7 Stanley Cups, so I'd say they were pretty well established as winners before Scotty arrived to "Save" them. They were built by Sam Pollock (and the lack of a draft allowing them a masive edge in acquiring all players coming into the league from the province of Quebec) certainly not by Bowman. Its also not that big of a coincidence that shortly after Pollock stepped down as GM, Bowman moved on to Buffalo to try his hand at being a GM. 


While Buffalo didn't win much before he got there, nor did they win more when he left, they didn't win anything while he was there either. They made the finals once, but were only 3-6 in playoff series under Bowman, they missed the playoffs twice and were the worst team in the league when Bowman was eventually fired.


His next stop in the league was in Pittsburgh where he took over a team that was the reigning Stanley Cup Champs, he was able to repeat for them with a star studded line-up before moving onto Detroit who were a top team in the league for the previous 2 seasons before he arrived, and have continued to be successful after his departure.


Bowman would be a fantastic adviser to a coach, but where in his history does he give you any indication that he knows how to build a hockey team. Perhaps Stan has gotten advice from his dad at times, who knows, but its absolutely clear that as a GM Stan Bowman has been a far better GM than his dad ever was and to credit Scotty for his sons success as a GM is completely unfair and somewhat insulting to one of the best GM's in the league.


Personally I don't think he has anything to do with the Blackhawks success at all, I think he's piggy backing off his son's work now collecting rings while sitting at home in Buffalo.