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Member Since 04 May 2012
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#2301650 Babcock and Holland want to keep Homer.

Posted by FlashyG on 16 May 2012 - 12:46 PM


what does that link say? If I understand English correctly it says Zetterberg is a LW. he was a LW on Dat's line and he was the LW on Filppula's line. Granted he did take faceoffs. So what. He always has.

Just because the Red Wings website lists him as a Winger doesn't override the fact that he played center almost all season. If you watched the games you'd know this.

Good prospects don't Play in the AHL for 3 years. 1 (if that long) and done. BTW, just to compare, Abdelakter had 52 points in his only full season in GR. So from a numbers alone standpoint, Tatar is Abdelakader offensively but 3 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter.

You keep trying to move the goal posts....I'm not saying he's going to be an elite player in the league, I think he'll be a good 3rd line player. He's developing better than Abdelkader has and Abby is already an NHL player. Sounds like you're already conceding he'll be more than a career minor leaguer.

Tatar, Emmerton, Muarsk, etc..... are all the same guy. yes they work hard. But just not enough of any one thing to set them apart from a dozen others. These are not really prospects. They are filler. Which yes in the day of a salary cap, you need. But none of these guys are the next stars of our team. We lack those in our youth. Nothing there but journeymen.

This is your problem right here, if they aren't the next Claude Giroux or Pavel Datsyuk they are all the same and they suck...nothing more than filler etc.
Not every draft pick is going to be a superstar, and you will never have a team full of them, these "journeymen" players are integral to every team in the league.

If you really think Tatar doesn't have any more offensive upside than Mursak or especially Emmerton then I don't know what to say other than...Don't ever go into scouting.

#2301516 Babcock and Holland want to keep Homer.

Posted by FlashyG on 15 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

Yes, plays a full season and can't even get to 60 points in the minors. Everyone that has any talent gets called up, which is way he plays the whole season there. As for bulking up, there is nothing he can do that will make him 6-2/205 which is the norm in the NHL for 2012. Those are the league avergaes-rounded off of course. Tatar is a nothing prospect. We are full of guys like him, and yet can't make any trades. You think there is a relationship there? Nobody wants our "propsects" other the Smith who we better not trade. Speedy Euor forwards that are under 6ft and less than 200 pounds are a dime a dozen. Every team has them. Yes they can help your AHL team, but most are far to small to help at the NHL level.

If you pay so little attention to the Wings that you think Zetterberg played the wing this year, why should any of us take your opinion of our farm team any more seriously? From your assessment of prospects in the NHL the only ones that count are ones that will become an elite talent.

I'm not saying Tatar will be our future #1 left winger. I think he'll be a great 3rd line left winger, or a good 2nd line winger once he gets a little stronger and that he's more valuable to the franchise than either Emmerton or Mursak.

#2301074 Babcock and Holland want to keep Homer.

Posted by FlashyG on 13 May 2012 - 07:33 PM

Exactly....only another year older and with a head coach even more frustrated with what he's given to work with.

The coach can hardly complain about Holmstrom since he's advocating bringing him back as well.

Personally I trust that Babcock and Holland know more about the players on their roster than any of us posting about them on the web.

As long as it doesn't prevent them from signing one of the big ticket FA's and it helps keep Lidstrom around another year I'm fine with Homer being brought back. I just don't want to see him on the first line anymore.

#2300789 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 12 May 2012 - 12:02 AM

That is just laughable. Our top 6 forwards: datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Burt, Filppula, and Hudler had a grand total of 6 goals in 5 games. 6!!!!!! If that is the best those 6 are going to do we are screwed! Heck Hudler had 2 and Filppula had 2. So for the real big money guys: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Burt, and franzen it is even worse. Those 4 combined for 2 goals in 5 games. These are guys that should score about every 3rd game. In a 5 game series their career averages show they should have scored 8-10 goals as a group. This is why we lost. There is no debate about it.

Could we have used more goals from the top 6?...sure, but it isn't why we lost.
You need more than your top 2 lines to win a playoff series as Nashville showed us. They got over 50% of their scoring from their bottom 6
The Wings scored 248 goals this year

132 came from the top 6 for 53%.of their goals
the defence contributed 49 for 20%
the bottom 6 kicked in 67 for 27%

In the playoffs

The top 6 accounted for 67% of scoring
The defence 11%
and the bottom 6 contributed 22%

.Nashville's bottom 6 shredded our bottom 6 both offensively and defensively, also the scoring from our defence disappeared. That is the reason we lost the series.

#2300775 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 11 May 2012 - 09:12 PM

I agree, and our top 2 lines didn't score. It is the why that there is discusion. Where they tired? They were not hurt, so why? yes we can disagree on the reasons. BTW.... Z, Franzen, and Filppula are scoring at the WC's. Datsyuk is not. True, it has only been 4 games. But the others are all better than a point per game. Datsyuk has 1 point in 4 games.

The top 2 lines accounted for 67% of our goals in the Nashville series. The bottom 6 and defence were why we lost that series.

#2300568 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 10 May 2012 - 05:10 PM

But it isn't a strainght up question. Suter and Widmen have very similier numbers. Suter gets more pub becasue he is an american and is the son of a HOF. But if the question becomes do I sign wideman for5 million per year or Suter for 7.5 million per year, I take Wideman every time. Allows meto speed in other places and make the team deeper and better overall.

Easy there...I was actually agreeing with you.

This was the first timein years that Datsyk, Z and franzen were all healthy going intothe playoffs. yes helm was out. But D wasn't our problem. Scoring was. How does the 3rd line checking center being out hurt Z, datsyk, and Franzen? It didn't. All of which are permier scorers. 30+ goal per season guys. They didn't score, becassue they didn't have room. room is created by a big forward on their lines opening space for them. That is what didn't happen,and why we lost to a worse team in 5 games. But enough with the past. time to look towards 2012/2013.

Datsyuk....I know its a small issue, but he is our best forward, is it too much to ask to spell his name right.

As far as the playoff series goes, our top lines weren't the problem. We scored 9 goals total , 6 of them came from the top 6 , 2 came from the bottom 6 and 1 from the defence. Our 3rd line was -5 and provided no goals at all. With Helm in the line-up our 3rd and 4th lines get better, with Eaves in the lineup as well we don't need to use Datsyuk or Zetterberg as penalty killers and they are fresh to score more at even strength.

Don't underestimate the value of depth.

#2300441 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 09 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

I will take that bet. Of all the young guys ypu have mentioned, fwer than 2 will ever turn out to be stars.

Way to go out on a limb there.

He said they'd make it not become Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

#2300145 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 08 May 2012 - 05:05 PM

Evcery team rebuilds. The question is which is faster? Either way you do drop off. But do you wait untill everyone has retired-and get NOTHING for them? Or move them and get something back that can be part of your next upswing. We had a 15 year run that was awesome! 95-2010 there was no one better. Not even close. But now it is time to get the pieces for the next great run.
No we are very very competive. we just got beat in the 1st round. We didn't win our division. As for datsyk, is he is healthy he is going to make more than he does now. 36 year olds are guys you fill in holes with, not build around. he is already slowing down over the past five years. Injuries are becoming more common. If we could move him, yes I would. But like I said, not for prospects. I look for guys in the league just comming into their prime.

So 8th overall isn't competitive? 102 pts sucks?

Should Chicago, San Jose, Vancouver and Pittsburgh start shipping out their stars too? they lost in the 1st round too.
You rebuild when your team can no longer compete, the Wings are a free agent signing and/or a few better playoff match-ups from being championship team again.

Datsyuk isn't some run of the mill 33 year old, he's among the best players in the NHL. The closest player in calibre to him that I can remember getting traded was Peter Forsberg (and he wasn't traded by the team he starred with). He returned Scotty Upshall and Ryan Parent, neither of which are still playing with Philadelphia.

#2300139 What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

Posted by FlashyG on 08 May 2012 - 04:44 PM

I'm hesitant to add Jurnkrok to the list of "elite" prospects. In the scope of this this organization maybe but not in terms of league wide prospects. Then again, I wouldn't consider many of our prospects making the cut for the latter group. I just don't see it. I know it's not a popular position to hold but I think our prospects are average. I really want to see some work done by Holland on that front this summer. It's not longer just "we're the Red Wings, we don't rebuild we reload". You have to build internally through the draft and by developing prospects.

You'd think the fact that Sweden is using him on their World Championship roster over several NHL players that he's one of the better prospects out there.

He's also dominating the faceoff circle over there winning over 60% of his draws. That would be a nice addition to the Wings puck possession style of hockey.

As far as the Wings ability to build internally through the draft, show me a team with more players on their roster they drafted and developed. Nashville might be the only one who compares and I believe they are tied.

#2300106 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 08 May 2012 - 02:08 PM

you still didn't answer my question.

Which championship teams in any sport have traded away the players that made them great, and improved without any years of mediocrity in between?

Who knows what Datsyuk will want salary wise in 2 years, and who knows what the roster will look like then. The Wings are still very much competitive and Datsyuk is the best player on their team, just because he's aging isn't a reason to trade him.

#2299901 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 07 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

Get Parise, then, trade for Shanny, er, uh, Nash!!!

What is it we are missing? A big, strong, nasty, scoring power forward. Get Nash, and then worry about the rest. Might even bring out the best in Mule. Who knows?

The only thing nasty about Rick Nash is his cap hit.

#2299701 The new guys thoughts.....

Posted by FlashyG on 06 May 2012 - 08:35 PM

Yzerman set the bar on hanging on for the last couple years. he played his last 4 or 5 years at less than 2 million. Add in a little inflation and the number is 3 million. The part every forgets is, to get someone good, you have to give someone good. There is also a salary cap. I know may are hot to trot over parise, but I am not one of them. he is another small forward, which we have a bunch of. the days of a team full of 5-11/180 players is over. yes a few are needed and can be successfull. But overall the average size is closer to 6-2/205. We have 3 forwards that are that size or bigger. 1 is old Burt, 1 disappears-Franzen, and 1 is very young Abelkater.
yes moving Zetterberg or datsyk will cause riots int he streets. I get that. But where will they be in 3 years? Old broken and with no trade value.

Steve Yzerman was the exception not the rule and he only took a discount for 1 year. He made 5.8 million in his 2nd last year and for his final year he took a salary of 1.25 million.

Neither Datsyuk or Zetterberg will ever be traded, regardless of trade value. They'll both retire as Red Wings. Its that dedication to our veterans that created the Wings reputation as a prime FA destination.

#2299224 Mike babcock taking questions on live stream

Posted by FlashyG on 04 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

Not sure if this is the whole interview but its the best I could find.


#2299219 What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

Posted by FlashyG on 04 May 2012 - 10:39 AM

Datsyuk and Zetterberg's games also transferred well to the NHL based on skill set alone.

Thats not what people said before Datsyuk came over to North America. His best season in his days back home was 26 pts and he was a long shot to make the team. Maybe Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen will take their game to another level next year. All I'm saying is wait until these guys move over to North America before you judge them.

I'll shy away from comparing those two to Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. And by come out of nowhere I was referring to draft position. 6th and 7th rounders who surprised everyone. We don't have that now. We know what the majority of our prospects have to offer. Like I said, I'm not saying every prospect we have is bad or anything. But most of them are average with a ceiling that we have a pretty good idea of already because we've seen what they can do in the minors for years and knowing that numbers drop even lower once you get to the highest of the high in terms of leagues (the NHL), it's pretty plain to see that there aren't any Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs to be had. And it's not surprising.. Those are rare.. rare players to be had. We've been blessed to have guys like that but eventually they were going to get old and lose production.. That's the cycle of life in the NHL and in all pro sports.. Save maybe for MLB where it's a money based league IMO. It's just time I think. It will do us good to rebuild in a few years.

I agree superstars are rare, especially when you don't get to pick in the top 20 picks but how can you tell that none of those guys I mentioned wont turn into superstars? Unless you're talking about different prospects than me, none of them have played a single game in the minors. They are playing in Junior or in Europe and all of them are putting up better numbers than Datsyuk did in his development. I'm not saying these guys will become better than or even as good as Datsyuk but the potential is there.

Oh.. and I followed the link to the poll I saw Chicago and Detroit. Then I saw Montreal and Toronto and I laughed and clicked the red 'x' lol.

So you disregard the opinion of even NHLers when you don't agree with it? Its not like CBC made up the results, that's the opinion of the players