WingsAlways

there its is boys and girls, our 22nd consecutive playoff team

All hail the hardworking, great hockeymind, always fair and never at fault midget and his stupid wellfare teams. Blame als has to go to all the greedy bastard owners who just can't found a way to screw all the momentum the NHL had. Superb job really worth wasting 8.000.000 for midgetlike hat-trick.

Record revenues, recod attendances and growth over the last 7 years hey lets lockout the player again, so we can keep all these failed franchises and piss poor playing owners alive right?

Screw you NHL; I am happily watching the SEL, AHL and NLA hope the players wait this out as long as it takes otherwhise the damn midget will lock them out everytime they aren't accepting such insulting proposals.

God I still can't believe it, stubborn owners keeping this damn commissioner employed. Sure Ecclestone and Blatter are worse than the mafia but midget is easily top 5 in terms of worst sports commissioners ever. May he be attacked by a furious octopus.

I'd be pissed if Holland signed such a contract for a goalie. Quick proved to be good last season, but I doubt he sustains that level of play. With this new contract he'll probably get fat and lazy.

Fair enough, my bad. Just in context I took it as though he wouldn't even been playing in the NHL if not with us. Sammy's not a bad secondary scorer imo, just worried about injuries.

And he's one hell of a guitar player!



esteef

Oh yes, I forgot, Sammy's gonna save us.  And you think Kenny has this team in the "best position" right now?  Good grief.

esteef

If you don't think Sammy if going to help YOU sir are the crazy one. The opposing team's goalie can only take so many shots to the chest it has to start hurting at some point. He will wear a hole in the goalies chest pads then what?...we win.=) hehe

It's been stated several times what Franzen's critics would like from him.  Sure 40-50 goals would be great, but I'd settle for a more consistent effort on the ice.  When Zetterberg isn't scoring you can still see how hard he's working out there.  Trying to get his shots, backchecking, carrying the puck in the high traffic areas.  

At his worst Franzen is content to float around, not using his considerable size, and just wing the puck at the net from low-percentage areas.

You are comparing a 7 million dollar superstar vs a 50-60 pt top 6 forward. Franzen led the team in goals, +/- and was 2nd in SOG with a cap hit just over half what Zetterberg makes. You seem to be focusing more on what you perceive he can do better, rather than being happy with what he already does well.

I'll concede he didn't use his size as well this past season, but other than that his play has been the same since he came into the league. Most goal scorers are streaky, the ones who aren't get paid almost double what Franzen does.

But. He shies away from contact.  Opponents know this and are going after him more and more.  Ergo, his production continues to decline and because he stays out of the corners the Wings are easier to defend when Franzen is out there.

Franzen's production hasn't declined though, he was 3 pts and 5 goals away from his career highs last year. He's actually been one of the more consistent Wings during his career, and his style of play has never been centered around playing in the corners. He's a goal scorer, you don't score them from the corners. (Unless you have a bank shot mastered like Zetterberg seems to have)

If Franzen made the Wings easier to defend he wouldn't lead the team in goals. You could just as easily make the case that the Wings are easier to defend because teams know Datsyuk will look to pass rather than shoot. I personally don't think the problem with our top 6 is any one player, its that we only have 4 that are legitimate top 6 players. If you put another good scorer on a line with Franzen and Datsyuk, the complaints about Franzen would likely disappear completely.

Thats his cap hit

The fact is he is makeing 5.250 million. That is why we expect more of him

Why? are you paying him? The only thing that should matter from a fans perspective is his cap hit as its the only thing that effects the quality of the team.

Crosby getting rocked, by Malkin! lol

hahahaha that has to be one of the greatest hits of all time.

Pav's helmetless hit on Chara.

also December 21,2011 Kronwall leveling Kesler, love to see a Canuck get kronwalled and love to see Kesler take a penalty afterwards.



This countdown is amazing, as are some of the comments from opposing fans...

"Why the f*ck do forwards keep their heads down when hes on the ice?!?! If I was playing against his line, fk scoring, my priority is to come out of that shift with my legs and arms."

This makes me sad... What could have been...

it's really crazy to think that if it weren't for such tragic events, our D core for YEARS could have been Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Fischer and Chelios...

Chances are, that if Vladdy hadn't been injured, we wouldn't have drafted Fish. But then again, we do have a thing about drafting defense in the first round, so I could be wrong. Either way, it sucks to lose two guys like that. We should get a compensatory pick.

Sutton's hit on Leopold was a beauty.

If you drop the 's' off of the https, it will embed the video instead of the link. You did that from a mobile device?

I've always enjoyed this for some reason or another.

The ultimate hit on the ultimate douchebag...

This makes me sad... What could have been...

it's really crazy to think that if it weren't for such tragic events, our D core for YEARS could have been Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Fischer and Chelios...

Umberger still hasn't figured it out..

This garbage about Howard is ridiculous....Cougar makes one negative comment about him and now everyone is second guessing him. Come on now, you've all watched him play and all know how good he is. Easily one of the top 10 starters in the league....And his price is even better to look at than his numbers! Howard is not suddenly going to tank because Lidstrom is gone and our D is weaker than normal (right now), if anything Howard has been getting better with each season. He'll be great between the pipes this year, as always.

I appreciate what he did, I even called him world class, even called him one of the most talented players, because you choose to ignore the shifts he took off does not mean I have to.

I admitted the whole team won championships, not just Yzerman.

But since you brought up 01-02 again here is another tidbit for you, who led the team in scoring that playoff run?

Thats right Stevie Y with 6g 17a and 23pts,
Lids 16pts (5 goals), hull 18 pts (10 goals), shanny 19 pts(8 goals), feds 19 pts (5 goals).  Goals Highlighted to refute your point, Hull was the beast in the later rounds! Hell Homer had 8 goals that year.

Yet another season where the team (after the first round) was playing great and so was Feds. Point out a year to me were Feds did the heavy lifting alone?
What year did he carry the team?

Now look at the amount of years he had high post season point totals, and look at how many other Wings had great stats too.

They won as a team and lost as a team, neither Stevie nor Feds single handily won the team the cup, however Yzerman single handily won them a few series, even when the likes of Feds, Shanny and the rest were struggling. Where as Feds (again) was at his best when the team was at its best.

As far as replacing him, you saying you couldn't replace him is just as speculative, in 96-97 Feds was 44th in scoring(30th in goals), behind the likes of Ziggy Palffy, Hull, Kariya, Selanne, Bondra, Nolan, Moginly, Rechhi, Graves, Fluery, Yashin, Amonte, Stumpel, Weight, Damphouse etc...
95-96 he was 10th (again one of his two great seasons).
98-99 he was just behind Ray Whitney at 31st.

My point you may be asking, could they have replaced his production with one player for his entire career, no way in hell, but 2 or 3 players could have done it, and in fact anyone in 97-98 would have been more productive than Feds when he held out.

Who says the Wings don't trade Feds for Palffy one year, then get Tkachuk later or whoever. The wings were deep at center and had multiple lines with 2 centers on it. But again all speculation on both our parts.

Was Feds an important piece, very much so yes, was he as important as Stevie, no.

Does he deserve his # retired, no.
Is he HOF, questionable and I only say that due to the amount of HOFers with his stats.
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 500 goals?
How many forwards in the HOF have less than 1200 points?
If he made it would I be upset, no not at all congrats, there are bigger travesties in omissions and election into the HOF.

Either way my point is he doesn't deserve his number retired in the Red WIng org.

Got distracted during this post it may not make the sense I wanted.



My like or dislike of Feds has nothing to do with it. Maybe this will help:

If part of the requirements in EDM were that players were lifelong, die hard, committed to the Org above all else neither of them would be retired in EDM, that is what makes retiring a number in Det so difficult and what keeps Feds out of the rafters.

Oh God, where do I start?  LOL  You're a stats guy,I get it.  I go by what I see.  If a player goes up the ice and deques through the entire team and then passes puck off to a teammate to score in the empty net then you would give credit to the goal scorer.  As well as Yzerman played (on 1 leg) in that '02 playoff run, he was nowhere near the force Fedorov was.  Offensively or defensively.  He just wasn't.  He was limited with the injury he had.  Fortunately, the Wings had the luxury of having Fedorov to pick up the slack.   Holmstrom was better than Fedorov in the Cup run...LMAO.  Wow.   Are you listening to yourself?  Fedorov did carry the team many times over many years.  As much as I love Steve Yzerman, he wasn't perfect.  He had bad games too.  There were times I wondered where he was or why he wasn't as effective as he should have been.  But that's hockey.  You can't be the best all the time.  I mean Lidstrom was close though.  97, 98 and 2002 Fedorov DID carry this team.  You just have to go back to the games and watch them and take your Sergei hatred blinders off.  I still recall that OT goal in 98 against the Caps.   How many players could have scored that goal?  It was awesome.  That was just one example.  Your player list of guys like Palffy, Whitney, Kariya, Selanne, Bondra, Nolan, etc are ALL wingers.  Feds was a CENTRE.  In replacing Feds, the Wings would have had to acquire a centre.  You still have not answered my question. Likely because you can't.  WHO would the Wings have been able to replace Feds with at the centre position?  If he was so invaluable to the team as you allude to, should it have not been easy to do?  In your fictional Fantasy Land, who is this player?  Even if there was a player, could the Wings have been able to trade for him?    You really think Keitch Tkachuk, a guy who never even played in a Cup Final would have been able to replace Fedorov?  Give me a break guy.  Doug Weight and Vinny Damphosse?  Do you even watch hockey?  LOL

You only look at offensive numbers to support your biased and flawed argument.  Lidstrom was our best dman after Vladdy could not play anymore.  Fedorov was our 2nd best defensive player.  There are no stats to measure defensive dominance.  Even the plus minus stat is a flawed one for a variety of reasons and most coaches and GMs agree with this.  It is not wihout merit though.  If anything, Fedorov's presence made all other players on the team better.  He drew the best lines.  Yzerman could play on the 2nd line,  Larionov could centre a 3rd line.  Or Yzerman could play with Feds and be better utilized.  A great player is measured by how he impacts the game and the players around him.  Fedorov did that for a number of years.  His career speaks for itself.

As for stats, Feds played an exceptional 2 way game.  He sacrificed stats for the betterment of the team.  Just like Yzerman had to learn how to be a complete player at both ends of the ice when Bowman came, so too did Fedorov.  Feds could have been on a run and gun team in his prime and put up god like stats.  But the Wings demanded its scorers be defensively responsible.  Bowman rolled 4 lines and wore opponents down.  Feds did not get the same ice time like Lindros was.  Or Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes.  The 80s were far different than the 90s.  The game had changed big time by then.  It's apples and oranges.  Yzerman had better stats because he dominated in an era where defense was not played until the playoffs.  It isn't his fault.  Yzerman was as dominant as anyone except for Gretzky, Messier and Lemieux.  However in the 90s, Feds was just as dominant in a way in which you can not measure by stats alone.  Mike Gartner scored over 700 goals in his career.  So why did Neil Smith trade him to the Leafs for Glenn Anderson in 1994?  Because he knew whan Anderson could add to his Rangers that Gartner could not.  However, in your mesure, Gartner was the better player because he scored more goals.  Anyone who followed hockey in the 80s knows Anderson was a better player and a more clutch player and a much better playoff player.  This is just one example why stats guys don't get too far in hockey arguments.

Your Edmonton reference makes no sense to me.  The only reason why Feds does not have his #91 retired in the Joe's rafters is based on one thing.  He and Illitch had a falling out.  Period.  Was Sergei partly to blame for that?  Yes, I believe he is.  However it has nothing to do with his career as a Red Wing. His career will always speak for itself.  Whether you like him or you didni't like him is moot.  He was one of the greatest Red Wings of all time and nothing you or anyone else says will ever take away from that.

Chris Neil crushes Boychuk, one of the hardest i've seen.



I love this thread