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#2532244 Red Wings & the Media

Posted by Playmaker on 16 July 2014 - 11:43 AM

The media plays an important role as an independent check on any organization that it's covering.  They're always disparaged, and 90% of the time they deserve it, but when they're doing their job everybody is thankful.  I'm sure, if they tried, everyone here can think of a time in which the public was introduced to some (very important) piece of information because a journalist was out there doing his or her job.  So this senseless media bashing is exactly that.


Having said that, I do think that there's some merit to this article.  If only to point out the utter ineptness of the local sports media, in particular.  Put aside the bloggers (I know, it's just opinion), or free agency preferences (I know, they're subjective), and all the recent stuff.  Set it aside.  And even then the recent loss of Tom Renney and hiring of Tony Granato got me thinking...do any of you recall seeing a single article about the decline of our powerplay?  Anybody remember that ever being a question asked of Babs or Holland?  This is just one example, I know, but our powerplay has been getting worse each year for a while now.  One of the justifications for signing Quincey, Sammy, and Alfie was that these guys would help on the powerplay.  The Detroit sports media regurgitated that fact ad nauseam.  And then...no results, and nobody asked a single question.  And this isn't something that involves much subjectivity the way free agency or trades do.  This is a fact. The powerplay stinks.  And nobody bothers to find out why.  If it's brought up at all, it's only to say "the powerplay is bad, here's Babs' or Hollands' ready made quote on the subject", which nobody bothers to follow up on.  Would it have killed someone over at Mlive to put in a call to Red Berensen, or Terry Murray, and see if they had any thoughts...ya know...being experts on the subject and all?  That's bad journalism. 


But can you really blame Khan, St. James, etc. for not asking?  Fans don't want that story.  Hell, the one and only writer in Detroit who isn't afraid to write unpopular articles (Drew Sharpe) is attacked endlessly by fans for being a troll, and then they complain about how no writers are willing to go against the grain.  Hmmm.

Sammy didn't play at all due to injuries, Alfie did help the powerplay while he was healthy and I never recall signing Quincey to help the power play.  WTF do you expect Babs or Holland to say?  Well, gee Keets, the powerplay sucks because Kenny isn't getting me quality players.  It has nothing to do with my ability to coach.  Or gee, that Renney clown has totally sucked ass and hasn't done a damn thing to help out this PP.  When guys like Tortorella ARE actually honest and berate others publicly, fans have a fit and it generally isn't received well be management. And who gives a flying f*** what Red Berensen's opinion of the Wings PP is?   He's a college coach that's a thousand years old.  Mickey Redmond often gives his opinion on things like this, as it is his job, and usually does so honestly without being overly critical of the organization that employs him.

#2532233 Red Wings & the Media

Posted by Playmaker on 16 July 2014 - 10:35 AM

I think some fans are confused as to what a journalist is, the difference between a beat reporter, a columnist, etc.


HSJ and Khan are beat reporters.  Their job is to report the daily goings on of the team in a somewhat factual manner. I'm relatively sure I've seen the issues with the power play reported.  HSJ asked Holland about Franzen being bought out, she asked Holland about the unpopularity of Cleary's signing.  What exactly is she supposed to do?  Post nude pics?


Drew Sharp, Mitch Albom, Bob Wojnowski, etc, they are columnists.  Their job is to give their opinions.  If they are too agreeable and don't get readers fired up, they won't have a job long.

#2532223 Red Wings & the Media

Posted by Playmaker on 16 July 2014 - 08:52 AM

I don't know why anyone would give a blogger the time of day.  It's like hey, I've got a computer and an opinion, take me seriously.  It's like the bozos that try and diagnose themselves with a medical condition on the internet. 

#2531590 Wings re-sign Cleary $1.5 mill + $1mill in game bonuses

Posted by Playmaker on 11 July 2014 - 02:04 PM


Meh. Would prefer a team on the east or at least central so I can watch the games. 


Being in Boston, might start following the Bruins closer. Though I hate a ton of players on the team, I think Chiarell is the best GM in the NHL. 

If you're in Boston, how do you purchase a half season ticket package?

#2531492 Tom Renney could be leaving, too.

Posted by Playmaker on 11 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

LOL, when other teams change coaches, its like, look at them, they're making changes to improve their team!  So now the Wings might lose Renney, a journeyman coach, and now it's, horrors!  Everyone's leaving!  That's proof we're not a good team!  Really??!?

#2530923 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

Right, and they ALL went to contending teams with a chance to win the Cup this year, right? 


Boyle said why he signed in New York as was referenced in the link above.  No big loss not getting a 38 year old already declining.  Parise and Suter made it clear why Minnesota was their choice. The Wings, with good reason, didn't pursue Stralman. Can't really say about Niskanen.  Could be that Orpik signed there, could have been a better financial offer.  I don't know and you don't either.  But the facts are, players don't sign only with up and coming contending teams. 


I mean when fans start pointing to Patrick Eaves signing with Dallas as proof that we're missing out on all the great Free Agents and that he signed there because they are an exciting up and coming team, what else can you really say?


Ken Holland can't win with many fans.  If he had overpaid Niskanen, fans would have complained about that when he (likely) would not have lived up to the contract.  If he trades away a young player for a veteran, he gets s*** for that.  He's supposed to stay under the cap, keep all the young players, sign all the free agents, and keep the team a yearly contender for two decades.  Gotcha. 

#2530887 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

You forgot DeKeyser.  Yeah, that guy that shunned Steve Yzerman and Tampa Bay and every other NHL team to sign with the Red Wings, why?  Oh, because he's FROM there.  But that seems irrelevant when it comes to other teams signing players.  


As I've said numerous times before, the Wings are NOT going to contend every year.  If you expect any team to do that for decades at a time, you're dreaming.  A small hand full of the few quality free agents that are available have signed with other teams, most of which are in worse shape than the Red Wings. Ken Holland has made very few blockbuster trades.  I don't expect that to change.

#2530885 Red Wings Target Mike Green

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 04:58 PM

ownership won't

If not making the playoffs for a few years, guaranteed being a contender, I think fans and management would go for it.  But ask Edmonton, Calgary, Buffalo, NYI, Florida, etc, how easy it is to turn it around.  All the high draft picks in the world doesn't guarantee a contending team.  It could take a decade or more to turn it around if you start dumping players and create a losing atmosphere.  You also have to have the good fortune to win the draft lottery, have a potential franchise player being in the draft the year you are picking and have an elite scouting staff to recognize those players.  Fans act like oh, we should just miss the playoffs for a year or two, and pick up a few superstars in the draft, and voila, we'll be Stanley Cup Champions in a season or two.  

#2530849 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 02:09 PM


It's an example of the types of packages Holland either doesn't offer, or does and gets rejected.  I know he didn't offer on Spezza, and you know what I meant. 


You make it seem like Hollands trying his best, and not getting any results, but then ALSO say that people aren't actively avoiding the Wings.  So since we're not getting players, I don't see how both can be true. 

No, I really don't know what you meant.  You referred to the Spezza trade.  I really have no idea what trades Holland or any other GM has offered to any team for any player. 


The Wings are getting players, the Wings just aren't getting EVERY player.  Wings fans seem to "misremember" when it comes to the past.  Most, if not all of the free agents the Wings have "missed out" on have signed with teams worse than the Wings with even less chance at winning the Cup.  Who were all these elite free agents that we used to get that we aren't getting now?  


Personally, I don't think the future looks all the bleak.  Cup favorites?  Probably not next year or maybe the year after that, but they have some talented young players that I'm excited to see how they mature.  The Wings, under Holland, have done a superb job of getting talented players with lower draft picks.

#2530836 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 01:31 PM


 Sorry but I have to correct you on that:


In his first-GM season Yzerman and the Tampa Bay Lightning reached the Eastern Conferecne Finals, only being stopped but a juggernaut named Boston.


In 4 years Yzerman has built up their AHL franchise, created competition for spots at the pro level what more could he have done ? Win the cup? Sure but it's not like Tampa is that good right now.


I know that Holland has done a lot of great things for this organisation but at some point every GM becomes to emotionally attached to his players (good examples are Tallon, Burke) plus he has also become unwilling to take risks. If someone offers you Volchenkov at 1 mill and then Quincey at 4,25 per ? The decision is easy and I don#t need GM experience to make such an easy decision.  When it comes down to the point where top UFAs are taking less (term and lengthwise) to sign elsewhere, all alarm bells should start to ring 24/7, because it's basically telling an organization two  things:


1. you are not good enough to win the cup

2. your future is bleak at best


At that point a GM should do everything in his power to guide the ship in the right direction, talk to agents about the perception and how to correct it. Desperate moves aren't going to cut it.


as for Detroit not being a destination anymore:

Well they didn't make Ehrhoffs final list nor Niskanen's so that should be telling.


1.  They wanted to be near friends and family

2.  They wanted to be with a last place team like Washington that's in the middle of a major rebuild

3.  They love the Minnesota weather


Weiss, Alfredsson and DeKeyser were top sought after free agents who DID sign here.  




It sounds like the gist of your first paragraph is that "he tried, and they didn't come, so there's nothing that could have been done".  In which case, we should blame fate, and nothing else since player acquisition is clearly this much of a crap shoot. 


It sounds like the gist of your second paragraph is "other teams lose in the first round too, so we should wait and see if we get better next year".  Which entirely ignores the fact that Tampa breezed into the playoffs and made moves to get better, and Dallas breezed into the playoffs (in a harder conference) and made moves to get better, while Detroit stumbled into the playoffs (two years in a row) and did nothing to get better.


I'd be fine with the "sometimes making moves isn't better than standing pat" argument if we already had a really good team, and internal growth might put us over the top without costing assets.  But we're not a really good team.  We're a team who (narrowly) outpaced teams like Washington and Toronto for a playoff spot the last two years.  What level is internal growth going to bring us up to?  Columbus level good? 


But you can't make em come to Detroit eh?


Dallas just got Jason Spezza for Alex Chaisson, a prospect, and a pic.  We can offer better packages than that.  So, A) we don't offer, B) if we offered, they'd come, C) we do offer, they wouldn't come (in which case there IS some reason to believe guys are actively avoiding Detroit). 


A) Ottawa wouldn't trade within the division

B) Holland wasn't parting with assets for a position that wasn't a need

C) Didn't want to add a 7 million dollar a year rental when there are other needs the team has.


Or maybe Holland just sucks and the Wings should have had won the Cup for 15 years straight.  

#2530746 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 09:36 AM


Wait, I'm confused.  Is you point that there was absolutely, 100%, nothing that Ken Holland could have done to improve this team other than sign Kyle Quincey? Because if not then it's a moot point. 


The fact that guys would rather sign to play with their buddies,or sign for less money, or sign with non-playoff teams, than sign with your team and get paid to win is a problem.  It says that either A) you're not winning, B) you're not paying, or both. 

There were things he could have done and it seems like he made a reasonable effort to do so.  I wanted Niskanen as much as everyone else did.  But it isn't like he's Ryan Suter.  If Holland had given him a 7 year deal at 6 million per season, would that sparkle with everyone?  Half the fan base would have ripped him for it.  Unfortunately, as teams like Philly are finding out, you have to think of today, but keep an eye on the future as well and it seems like more often than not, these long term free agent deals come back to bite you in the ass.    If we had signed Niskanen and the three young D prospects all turn out to be good, how are you going to pay them all?  Not to mention DeKeyser and all the young forwards who will be due for a big pay day if they are successful.  It's a balancing act.  I'm not in love with every move Ken Holland makes, but I also don't think there's some league wide mandate to avoid the Wings either or that they're so awful and the future is so bleak that free agents are signing else where.    


While everyone is lauding Steve Yzerman for his GM abilities, he still hasn't gotten his team past the first round of the playoffs.  Jim Nill either (though he's only had one season)  Making moves isn't necessarily better than standing pat.  We'll see in the years to come.  

#2530744 TANK IT! 2014-2015 Season

Posted by Playmaker on 09 July 2014 - 09:26 AM


Egads, I'm not going to reveal how old *I* was at the time of the Oates trade. :)


Don't forget Kevin McClelland. He came along with Carson. What a bargain!

It just goes to show with trades that you just never know.  Jimmy Carson was a proven commodity.  He was a three time (or close to it) 50 goal scorer and he was still in his early 20's.  For whatever, reason, be it the hometown pressure or what not, he could never recapture his scoring touch.  The Wings liked Adam Graves and didn't want to part with him, but he was a young grinder with the Wings at the time and Carson was a budding superstar.  I don't know of many who wouldn't have made that trade.


The Oates thing was entirely different.  I heard an interview with Jacques Demers after he had left Detroit.  Want to say it was with Mitch Albom when he was still doing the sports show on Sunday Nights.  In any event, a law enforcement official contacted the Wings and told them Oates' name was listed in some kind of "black book" of a prominent drug dealer.  With all the Probert stuff going down, the Wings freaked out and quickly dumped Oates for whatever they could get.  Turned out to be a bogus report, but it wasn't purely a hockey move.

#2530703 Article on FAs and Red Wings

Posted by Playmaker on 08 July 2014 - 07:50 PM

So why did Suter and Parise go to Minnesota?  Because they are so competitive?  Did Niskanen go to Washington because they are Cup finalists?  Moulson went to Buffalo because they're making so many good moves? Seems not to matter how much evidence to the contrary, there's going to continue to be the "Detroit's not a destination because of...." conspiracy theory.

Oh, and Patrick Eaves?  LOL  He "chose" to go to the Stars?   They scooped him up off the scrap heap after being let loose twice in the past year and is being paid like 500k on a one year deal.  Give me a break

#2530076 Hockey News: Red Wings D hunting

Posted by Playmaker on 05 July 2014 - 06:19 AM

Red Wings and Hawks doing a trade ? Never!


That's also why a guy like Seabrook would never sign here even if he becomes UFA and we throw a lot of money at him.


I just went to the Winnipeg forum and from what I've read it seems like Cheveldayoff is a poor version of Holland (reluctant to lose a trade, not willing to take risks and doesn't change too much), so I think this two teams would be horrible trade partners. Although Trouba, Scheifele, and especially Bogosian, Wheeler would be really nice pieces.


I still think the only remaining options, which make sense are Tyler Myers or Keith Yandle. If their asking prices are too high stay pat and gun for a great draftpick in an excellent draft class.

Right, its not like we'd ever trade for a despised Chicago native and icon in Chris Chelios and then have him stay in Detroit for years and work for the Red Wings or anything  ;)  That would never happen!

#2530053 Can Z and Pav do anything to protest? (not that they would)

Posted by Playmaker on 04 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

Interesting because I was fearful of the same thing. There is nothing that can force Datsyuk to return to play. Put yourself in his shoes. he is wealthy, his wife and kids live in Russia, he could easily replace the RW's salary by staying there and playing. He clearly was unhappy with the end of the year/direction of the team/etc... he is also 35 and getting beat up. He voiced his displeasure which is COMPLETELY out of charactor for him. If we still are the same team come August first, it would be really hard to get on a plan and come back.

I have mentioned this before. If you wan to force Babcok, Z, and Datsyuk out, could you write a better script to do it? Why would anyone of those 3 want to return/stay long term? Thios is very thin ice Holland is skating on and we the fans could be the ones to pay for his "liking our team".

His ex-wife and oldest daughter live in Russia.  His new wife and newborn daughter live here.  Zetterberg said in the HBO special that he and his wife plan to make the Detroit their home after he retires.  


Alexei Kovalev just retired from a Swiss B League.  These guys aren't like us.  They play because they love the game on a completely different level.  I expect them both to play until their bodies are no longer able and continue to be the ultimate professionals they always have been.