I don't think anyone's arguing (well, at least...) that Holland wasn't a great GM at one point. What a lot of people are noting is that as we have moved far enough into the new era where we really started feeling the weight of the cap, Holland's struggled to show that he can maneuver well in free agency or with other teams via trade. That is a real problem, right now. It doesn't matter that once upon a time he did this or that; "this or that" from "way back when" have no bearing on "hear and now." Hear and now, he can't figure out how to sign or trade for difference makers, and he's tried plenty.
Holland's let people slip away that he shouldn't. He continues to cling to players he shouldn't. He overpays for mid-level talent based largely it seems on familiarity. He tries to underpay for high-level talent, which ultimately has failed every time. And when he fails, he's the king of revisionists, make no mistake. That guy finds a way to reshape everything that happened as part of some master plan, and it must be working, because there's plenty of non-critical thinkers who keep falling for it and praising Holland because of what he did in another era now long past us.
Oh, I guess it's easy forgetting in an instant that Holland was desperate to throw $9 million plus at both Suter and Parise last summer.
Oh, that's right, I remember now, Holland is so smart for not overpaying for free agents!
Now that we didn't sign them...
"We like our team."
I'm not trying to take anything away from what Holland has done, but if he was as great of a GM as people want to paint him to be in this cap era, he would not be struggling so much in the free agency and trade markets. You can say all you want about what he did in the past, but no one willing to be objective can say that Holland has shown that he has a strong handle, let alone any handle, on helping this team via trade or free agency lately. And like it or not (for the sake of some of ever-shifting argument), trade and free agency are still very important parts of this game.
Remember when Flip was the youth? Remember when he put put up 70 points in GR and everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? Now he's greedy and one-dimensional and useless
Remember when Hudler was the youth? Remember when he put up 96 points in GR? Remember how everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? Now he's greedy and one-dimensional and useless and lazy.
Remember when Kopecky was the youth? Remember when he put up 72 points in GR? Remember how everyone was all over Babcock and Holland for not playing him enough? (well, OK, its was just Eva ) Now he's just useless.
Remember when Kronwall was the youth? Remember when he put up 53 points in GR? Remember when he was Nick Jr? Now he's useless and can't defend, and a turnover machine and not a #1 defenceman.
Remember when Smith was the youth? Remember how 12 months ago he was LOCK for the Calder on here? Now he's the most useless defenceman in history, a Frankenstein combination of all the worst parts of Anders Ericsson, Max Kuznetzov, Matthieu Dandenault and Brett Lebda.
Are you spotting the pattern here? When they're in the minors all our prospects are the next coming of Steve Yzerman and Nick Lidstrom on here. Then they get here, and they turn into what the scouts projected (3rd line checker, 2nd line 2-way winger) and not what the LGWers predicted (Pavel Zetterberg), and LGW treats them like they're something they scraped off their shoe.
So good luck Nyquist. Good luck Tatar. Good luck Sheahan, Ferraro and Jurco. You'd better turn into HOFers, otherwise you'll just plain SUCK!
If you're an impending UFA and look around at the type of money paid to other guys that you know you're better than, I don't know how you can consider it greed. Players around Flip's age have to lock down that one big deal to make the bulk of the money they'll make in their lifetime. Logic and reason tell you that with the cap going down, players like Filppula can't be paid $5.5 mil per year, but experience tells you that somebody will pay that, or close to it. Crap, teams like Phoenix, Columbus, etc. need to hand out a bad contract or two just to stay over the salary floor!
Have you ever left a job voluntarily that you weren't fired from? I suspect most people have (or have considered it), and some people consider doing it on almost an annual basis. Did you feel like a greedy traitor knowing that somebody else had to take over your work and clean your mess up so you could go earn a little more money somewhere else?
when a guy is ranked 230th by CS you can wait. No I have no idea how he will turn out. But there is no reason to take him now. He would have been there in the 5th, 6th, 7th rounds.
I can give you a good reason why to take him now. Another team shows interest in taking him before you pick again. CS means nothing when your own scouts think hes better. If CS meant everything then Dats and Hank would have been 1st rounders.
As I've already mentioned, my assertion was never that Kindl was the 7th D man.
My posts are there for you to re-read if you feel like seeing what I've actually said.
Did you write "Defensively, he still plays with the consistency of a number 7 guy though"?
Yes or no?
Im telling you that you havent moved on from 2012. Kindl plays with ghe consistency of a number 4 or better now. Thats why all his stats are up, thats why the coach is singing his praises, and thats why he got a nice extension. Why knock ANY part of his game right now?